• no banana@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      I feel that is the difference we’re seeing though. Younger kids who generally live on smart devices have lower tech literacy.

          • unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de
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            2 months ago

            Because my phone isnt a smart device. Its a dumb device that does nothing by itself and everything i tell it to do. It allows me to remove things i dont like without self destructing and locking me out. It works offline without complaining. It doesnt spy on me.

            • ddh@lemmy.sdf.org
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              2 months ago

              That doesn’t really answer my question. I’m going to conclude that you just have some personal issue with Apple.

        • lad@programming.dev
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          2 months ago

          For me as a user it always looked like Microsoft looks at how Apple does it and is eagerly employs the worst practices of not allowing the user to do anything ‘forbidden’ and not giving the user control in general.

          Google is doing pretty much the same with Android for a long time, too.

      • tyler@programming.dev
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        2 months ago

        Real question, what things on Apple were so restrictive that you think it’s a prison?

        • Like the wind...@sh.itjust.works
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          My only apple device was an iPod and it was the most cumbersome thing ever. Trying to put music on it on my own laptop was impossible as iTunes wouldn’t install. So I’d need to use someone else’s computer which would default to synchronizing their library with my device. So all my loser video game soundtracks will be on someone else’s device or their american sex music will be on mine. And those 33 pin or whatever Proprietary Cables broke if you breathed on it. Adding music was the closest thing to pulling teeth without actually pulling teeth.

          Getting an Android phone instead of an iPhone was literally like breaking free. I can manage my own files directly on the device. I can download apps from anywhere. I can download music without proprietary software and expensive fragile cables. Oh, right, and I can charge it with the same cable my old brick phone used, the one that came with my portable charger, and one that powered my USB fan. A Standard Cable. Ffs.

          • freebee@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            I had a very similar experience with the ipod and avoid everything apple ever since.

            ITunes did install on my windows laptop (wondering why i had to do that tho, why couldn’t i just drag my mp3’s to the device folder??), but it was still an instant locked-in experience. Whatever went into iTunes/ipod seemed near impossible to get back out. Mp3 in, gibberish out. Encoded to some apple © tm format, lost into the void. Coming from a normal mp3-player that was very unexpected and unpleasant.

            The only thing I liked about it was the (hardware) wheel.

          • tyler@programming.dev
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            2 months ago

            So absolutely nothing to do with Mac at all. And you’re referencing a cable that hasn’t been used in literally over a decade and comparing it to a a cable that you’re using now? You do realize Android phones in 2010 used proprietary cables too, right?

            • Like the wind...@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              I got my first android (Samsung Galaxy S3) in 2014, before I had a LG Rumor Touch. Both used micro USB.

              I was turned off from Apple anything after having an iPod as a gift and discreetly hating it. I was further turned off when I saw that an iPad is just an elongated iPod Touch rather than a Microsoft Surface which is literally a PC.

              • tyler@programming.dev
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                2 months ago

                So micro usb, the literal worst standardized usb connector in existence, is what you are claiming is better than an iPhone’s omnidirectional lighting connector.

                And you know how I can tell you haven’t ever touched an iPad? 🤦‍♂️ “an elongated iPod touch” smdh.

                • Like the wind...@sh.itjust.works
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                  2 months ago

                  An iPad is a fisher price toy for the price of a Surface. It’s nothing. I used the ones in school and when I was an election day employee. They’re scams

                • sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  2 months ago

                  Mini is worse than micro, which is better than all the proprietary connectors it obsoleted

                • Xatolos@reddthat.com
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                  2 months ago

                  Lightning connector (2012) would be equal to USB-C (initially designed in 2012).

                  Micro USB would be equal to the 30 pin connector (and overlapping with mini USB.)

            • Ziglin (they/them)@lemmy.world
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              2 months ago

              Lightning is still a problem on devices more than about 1.5 years old (everything “smart” that I own) and I’ve never had an Android phone that didn’t use USB, though some had additional proprietary connectors for a dock.

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          I - carefully - maintained a music library. Got an ipod. Loved the device. Though sync via itunes was cumbersome.

          Wanted to sync my tracks back to another device. Nope. Not supported. Everz track was rewritten into some garbage, including its tags.

          Locked in a prison without knowing.

          My elderly parents got iphones. They started sharing pictures via their message app. Required multiple times showing them that we - android users - receive aweful pictures. Prison.

          Apple watch is only syncing with iphones. Prison.

          Used to be an app developer. Releasing something as open source for ios is not feasible. You have to anually pay 120 USD to publish. Prison. Therefore you release the app in a paid manner. They tell you which price to raise. And tax 30%. Prison.

          A friend wrote a thesis with some apple-writer thingy. Asked me for some help saving in the required file format. Couldn’t manage to. Prison.

          • freebee@sh.itjust.works
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            2 months ago

            “Vendor lock-in” is the backbone philosophy for the entire company and literally every single product and service it has ever created.

          • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Every app on the App Store is so bad because of that fee too. There just basically isn’t anything open source. Its 90% of the reason why I switched to Android.

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            2 months ago

            Out of all of these only your last point is valid and even that is being changed as they get hit by ant-monopoly stuff, I don’t care if the apple watch only works with the iphone or that the ipods are best used with an iphone, i have used my fair share of bluetooth headphones on android and I have a generic smartwatch from Huawei and they fuck off, they have terrible UX.

            For most of the shit I do, I just want something that works, for the niche shit I have Linux/windows on my desktop PC.

      • Anivia@feddit.org
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        2 months ago

        With iPhones yeah, but MacOS is not very locked down at all. You can run all the unsigned code you want.

        Although you could argue the new Apple Silicon Macs are kind of locked down, since Apple only allows kernel extensions on the older Intel Macs

      • Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        it’s always puzzled me why Apple themselves call installing non approved software “jailbreaking”, they’re straight up stating that their os is a jail

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      I don’t know. I think Mac gets a lot of hate simply because it’s a Unix that was sold to the devil and comes with a satanic concierge service.

      Like, I’m not saying that selling your soul to the devil is possible but if I had to pick a handful of people that on the whole I would say probably did I would pick Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Donald Trump, Elon musk, Jeffrey bezos, Larry Page, Vladimir Putin, and probably every Hollywood social elite and musician that sells a platinum record, every Republican senator, congress person, and every president after Jimmy Carter, and every CEO whose company is worth more than 10 million dollars who didn’t inherit the company from their parents.

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      2 months ago

      growing up my family had a mac desktop that i had access to while really young. eventually realized mac is a little terrible, so i tried bootcamp to get some proper use out of the computer. i successfully installed windows, but somehow fucked up and formatted the mac partition. all for windows to also suck

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          2 months ago

          my parents were understandably pissed because i had deleted at least a few hundred gigabytes of photos and videos from the last decade. iirc i was banned from touching the computer for at least a year, which was funny because i was literally the only one who used it

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            2 months ago

            Even as an adult I don’t trust myself not to fuck up so whenever I do installing or partitionning, I always disconnect my drive that contains the personal files.

    • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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      2 months ago

      Eh, I grew up with Macs, but I couldn’t afford a Mac for my first computer, or even a windows license. I got a computer from a family friend that was broken which I fixed up and installed Linux on.

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      This isn’t right at all… Mac’s are awful if you want to do things like play most video games. Linux is much the same.

      That’s right. I said it. Come downvote me, fanboys, I don’t mind. I’ve seen what makes you cheer.

      • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Proton is way better than whatever thing Apple has going on (didn’t they say they were working on their own proton-like thing? did they just forget about it? I remember seeing a video with some sort of dev preview a while ago…)

      • solomon42069@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Well there’s a simple explanation right? When you’re growing up grappling with issues like homosexuality, disability or just feeling like an outsider - spending more time at a computer provided an escape from a judgemental and unwelcoming world. This is the same reason so many of us are night owls well into adulthood, cause we grew up feeling safer when the adults were asleep and we could maintain our personal boundaries.

    • Peachy [they/she] @lemmy.blahaj.zoneM
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      I’m autistic and gay but I also have a secret third thing that stopped me from figuring out linux. The “AD” in ADHD (there needs to be a better way to distinguish between having attention deficit, hyperactivity, or hybrid). I have tried like four times now to figure out linux and my brain just doesn’t get the dopamine it needs from that activity and I just can’t focus 🫠

      • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        There is a shoet way to say it: Inattentive type (type I), Hyperactive type (type H), and Combination type (type C)

        I routinely describe myself as ADHD type C

      • Vermingot@jlai.lu
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        2 months ago

        There is a way to distinguish them ! There is Innatentive type, Hyperactive-impulsive type and Combined type

      • lad@programming.dev
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        2 months ago

        It looks like Linux got much friendlier as of lately, and requires much less figuring out, but ymmv and you can of course run into issues, unfortunately.

        Nowadays we usually have the benefit of being connected to the internet from something other than the computer we’re fiddling with, it was quite hard to troubleshoot modem issues when you need that modem to work for the internet connection.

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    Personally, I guess that you learn more the more issues you have. MacOS is a more closed down ecosystem compared to Windows, malware is less popular and as hardware comes usually bundled with the OS, you shouldn’t encounter as many driver or hardware issues in general.

    As a kid I had so much trouble with incompatible software, viruses, adware, drivers, broken hardware etc. And as I had noone to ask, it tought me a lot about the fundamentals of IT and how to research such issues myself.

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      Counterpoint, I grew up at a time when Mac’s still couldn’t do much outside of what apple specifically developed for them, so I learned a ton about emulation and virtual machines and such to play games or use Photoshop. I guess that supports your hypothesis, I can rock Unix command line stuff and containers like a pro, but hate figuring out drivers

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        Yes, I completely see that. This is not a black or white question. You can use Windows, MacOS, Linux, Android, iOS… and learn close to nothing or you can geek around hour after hour to expand the boundaries of your device.

        I would just assume, that you learn less if everything you want to do, works out of the box. And ‘working out of the box’ a typical selling point of the Apple ecosystem. Which of course doesn’t mean that you can’t have a steep learning curve. Your use cases obviously weren’t delivered out of the box, so you had to get creative as well.

        I had a jailbroken iPod Touch with a shell on it and spend hours and days overcoming system boundaries just out of spite. I also remember vividly trying to bring mobile games to a Symbian phone, tweaking around with a HP iPAQ on Windows Mobile, manually typing Midi ringtones with a text editor on a Nokia. :D

      • Lumisal@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        And then there’s 90s Linux because your parents got a used computer with a friend that came with only that and they didn’t want to spend money buying windows 😢 it’s like learning to swim by being yeeted into the ocean, with a couple sharks hanging around.

        At least 80s kids got assembly.

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          Linux had always been good - put together a new computer, move the OS from the old one, put Linux on the old one…

          Find Linux is so much fun, dual boot the new machine on Linux, only keep windows for games

          My audio collection from then is all .ogg files

          • Lumisal@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            Debian didn’t have a stable release until 1996… Even Slackware didn’t shape up nicely until around 98 from what I remember. SLS gave it a GUI but wasn’t well maintained. Linux wasn’t really “good” until early 2000s at the very least.

            I just wanted to play Space Cadet Pinball or Commander Keen as a kid, not compile my programs.

            You’re clearly talking about modern Linux.

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              I don’t think I had budget to buy my own computers until '99, and that’s when I first played with Linux

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    2 months ago

    At risk of going off topic, I don’t like Twitter posts like this:

    • Both users ‘verified,’ essentially paying for more engagement, but with no actual “verification” like community mods tagging users.

    • In your face engagement metrics all over the posts, as if that’s all that matters. Not even a user “poll” like Lemmy/Reddit or Mastadon/Facebook.

    • Hiding most replies other than the most algorithmically engaging ones.

    • Posted as a screenshot, unfortunately necessary as they essentially broke Nitter and it’s nigh unusable unless logged in.

    I don’t like that the Twitter format is kinda the center of the social media universe, and seemingly staying that way now that we basically voted to back it with the US govt.

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    Hey! 🙋 I’m an autistic person (diagnosed at age 3). I grew up using Mac computers mostly, because my father preferred them for his work. Although I would encounter Windows a lot when I was at school as well. However, I didn’t really know how to use Windows until I started seeing videos on YouTube about it (such as this one). This was when I was around 10. So I started experimenting with different editions of it (Windows 10, Windows 7, Windows XP, etc.) via a pirated copy of Parallels Desktop. I also found out about Linux, and toyed with Ubuntu with a bit via Parallels. I found it fun, and thus considered the idea of installing Linux properly onto my Macbook. Unfortunately, the trackpad support wasn’t there. So for my 11th birthday, I asked for a “Windows laptop”, and immediately after getting it, I set up some dual-boot with Windows 10 and some fork of Ubuntu called “Pinguy OS”. (I spent way too much time looking at DistroWatch.) Then, I distro-hopped for a bit until I finally settled on Void Linux when I was 13. I’m now 18 and am running Void full-time on my current laptop, it doesn’t even have a Windows partition. :)

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        Apologies for the late reply, my internet went down for a day. Anyway, before I was using a distro called Antergos (basically Arch with an easy installer and a few custom packages). When it was discontinued, some people waited for what is basically its spiritual successor, EndeavourOS. Others switched to using vanilla Arch. But I decided to use Void after some research, as to me it was Arch but with a few advantages to my favour:

        • At the time, Void had an installation wizard while Arch didn’t (you manually installed it by following the wiki, basically). Now, archinstall exists, I guess.
        • It’s still rolling-release, so you can update whenever you want easily, but at the same time not bleeding-edge, so packages don’t break as easily.
        • Unlike most Linux distros, it uses runit as the init system instead of systemd. I’m no rabid systemd hater, but you gotta admit that runit is just easier to learn how to use.
        • And finally, by adopting a non-major distro, I just wanted to promote Linux apps being compatible with as many distros as possible, and not just either Debian, Fedora, or Arch (or whatever derivatives exist thereof).

        (Also, happy cake day! I didn’t know Lemmy had cake days until now hehe :)

    • RVGamer06@sh.itjust.works
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      Yooo, another autistic geek 2006er!

      I was diagnosed at age 4 and i started with Flash games on a Windows 7 family desktop. The first PC i could keep in my bedroom was an old netbook with XP and Lubuntu gifted to me by my mom(i only used the linux part tho). Then, later, another XP-era laptop with Linux Mint, before the current win10 laptop i have today(used it with Windows so far cuz i’m lazy and i used to need windows software but i plan to Linuxize this as soon as win10 is discontinued)

      When i take the jump i’m prolly gonna settle for KDE Neon or any other Debian-based that can run KDE and then try to theme it to get something as close to Frutiger Aero as possible.

      • mayhair@discuss.tchncs.de
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        Ayy! 🤝

        I’m also thinking of trying KDE the next time I install Linux. I’ve been using GNOME for the vast majority of my time on Linux, though I’ve also dabbled with Xfce and Antergos’ built-in OpenBox configuration for a short while.

  • RoyaltyInTraining@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    The weird thing is that the UNIX core of MacOS would lend itself really well to tinkering. It’s a shame that Apple lobotomizes all the hardware they sell with locked down firmware…

    • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world
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      It’s why I much prefer MacOS over Windows. The command line makes sense. The file and folder structure makes sense. The defaults can be a little bit weird but a little configuration can help me feel right at home.

    • HEXN3T@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      Ironically, I found macOS to be a lot more technical than Windows. It’s how I got my start with Linux. At least changing the default browser changes the default browser. I’ll be using macOS and Linux side by side.