this is why democrats will keep on losing. Aggressive campaigning against progressives. That’s how they tanked Berny who had a real shot at trump at the time. They have mothballed trump indictments when they’ve had a chance to impeach him, they have gagged them this campaign and result is for everyone to see… Pelosi is a very mean and very capable machine of destryction when it comes to progressives and their ideas
No fucking lie. Democrats scrap like alley cats while liberals clutch their pearls viewing GOP hypocrisy. They stick together, no matter what, and they win.
Remember, Pelosi has a net worth over $200mil.
“It’s a big club, and she’s in it.”
Pelosi fucking sucks. AOC for pres.
https://apnews.com/article/business-nancy-pelosi-congress-8685e82eb6d6e5b42413417f3d5d6775
We have no left party in the United States, merely an economically right-wing party to the left of a fascist party, with a few left-wing spoilers like AOC and Sanders that they despise far more than their fascist opposition party, because while Democrats and Republicans rage over social policy, often the symptoms of economic desperation, they drink from the same Wall Street gravy train and take the same orders on economic policy.
A party actually attempting to reorient our economy based on the needs and priorities of the citizens of our society would be catastrophic to their legalized bribery, and insider info feeding arrangement.
If you think either party under it’s current form will EVER lead to any form of universal healthcare, you’re deluding yourself.
The UK has had universal healthcare since 1948. Canada since 1968-1970(provinces rollout)
Universal healthcare is not a newly proposed issue, either. Going at least as far back to FDR’s administration, his Secretary of Labor (and architect of The New Deal) Frances Perkins even advocated for public healthcare.
I hope that someday we live in a world where that can happen.
Maybe if she gets a few felonies.
Hey, here’s a thought. You know about the guy that shot a parasite in NY? AOC could try that too. She’d need enough vocal (and armed) popular support to avoid conviction (and retaliatory assassination) and it might turn into a civil war, but it might also work.
you are playing into eurasias plan wtih a civil war.
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Too late, we’re already in it and pretending it hasn’t happened yet.
Ideally, the support would be so overwhelming that it doesn’t come to actual protracted violent conflict. But if the alternative is an erosion of civil rights by a greedy oligarchy, I have little faith that they’d actually oppose “eurasias plan” either, so it doesn’t seem like there’s much to lose here.
you mean the oligarchs that exist in Russia today?
Sure, if that’s what you want to look at for comparison, though America has plenty of its own (as do other nations). Pretty sure extreme wealth knows no allegiance but to itself. Nations are pawns to them, nationality a way to draw lines, nationalism a way to make people fight over those lines instead of fighting the vampires making bank off of that conflict.
Whether you’ll end up under Russian exploitation, American exploitation, European exploitation, Chinese exploitation or literally any other oligarchy you could come up with doesn’t really matter.
Better to fight for a chance at freedom than fall for the deception that a particular flag makes one parasite better than the other. And if it should come to violence, maybe it will at least train a force of veteran resistance fighters if the eurasian powers come knocking. We’ve got a live demonstration of how a motivated resistance can give an imperialist invader a hard time.
War is a waste of lives and resources and regrettable in any circumstance. I hope that changes for the better can happen without resulting in bloodshed and destruction. I hope for a better, happier, more prosperous future for all of us.
Burn the Democratic party to the ground. Their complicity has resulted in this state of affairs.
none of the contemporary democrats have experience fighting fascists.
usually because they don’t recognize their financial advisors as being fascists
It’s a sunk cost. All the time and effort we spent propping them up could be use to build a new but people won’t face the fact. They think they can slowly steer it in the right direction but all the effort that has to go in is easily reversed by some insignificant amount of money from the doner class.
Part of the problem is that you literally cannot build up a third party under First Past the Post voting.
The thing is, the current most popular alternative voting system, RCV is just as bad for third parties.
RCV was first invented in the 1780s by the Marquis de Condorcet, under the name Instant Runoff. He wrote about it, mostly to highlight it’s problems.
Like the fact that under IRV the majority preferred candidate can easily lose the election.
And that’s the tip of the iceberg when it comes to flaws in IRV.
Thankfully it’s been over 200 years since then, and better voting systems have been designed.
STAR is as close to the magical best system designed to date.
If we had STAR for all elections, plus voting day as a national holiday, we’d be in a vastly better place.
You’re almost right. The stable situation under FPTP is two big parties. But if one collapses, it won’t necessarily be revived, it can also be replaced. There might be a period where the party on the way out drains votes from the newcomer, but things can change quickly as well.
It happened before with the Whigs.
All this is moot. There is no party that will be able to wrest power away from the GOP come January. Yet still there will be fools putting all their hopes in the effectively powerless DNC.
Yeah, we’re coming into a pretty horrible timeline. I’d have preferred the one where the Brooks Brothers Riot failed. But that ship has long sailed.
This timeline is going to be an authoritarian nightmare with random high points where some rich asshole is murked by an Adjustor copycat.
Consider the possibility that resistance against fascism (and other totalitarians) never happens through established parties. The fascists are like termites: the edifice already has to be rotten before they can get established. Where dictators and illegitimate regimes are forced out, it has involved people getting out in the street. Established parties never lead, they only follow.
Fuck everything about Pelosi and her bullshit insider trading.
She’s not there to help Americans, she’s there to maximize her and her husbands investments.
“Blue no matter who” winds up like ghouls like this running the party, because they’ll never give up personal.power, and corrupt enough to sell out for campaign donations.
We have to have more standard than the letter by a name.
I don’t know much about her, but what little I do know, she’s the Democrat’s version of McConnell.
Nope, McTurtle got rich along the way. But his lifelong goal has been packing the courts.
He is literally salivating like he just walked into a salad bar at the 42 vacancies Biden is about to hand over.
Pelosi doesn’t give a shit about the Dem platform or helping people. She wants America to stay in the early 90s, that used to be enough to be considered somewhat progressive.
But the early 90s were 30 years ago. Imagine calling someone in the early 90s progressive because they wanted America to go back to pre civil rights movement.
That’s the same time frame.
The right move was forming a serious left third party decades ago. We’d have a right, center, and left party and nothing would get done without some compromise between the wings, likely leading to a more fluid party structure.
We’d never see this shit where a handful of republican extremists sabotage everything no matter who has the majority.
No, a third party is non viable. But the right move would have been exactly what the crazy right wingers have done with the Republicans. Get organized and primary the fuck out of the people blocking things.
The “tea party” gave us the blueprint, but we’ve been too dumb and lazy to follow it. When they didn’t give us the public option with Obamacare, every primary since then should have been about cleaning house of the corporatist, establishment Democrats and replacing them with real progressives. But since we’re too lazy and dumb to vote in primaries in mass numbers, their establishment people keep sailing to victory.
Get organized and primary the fuck out of the people blocking things.
You’re ignoring primaries are rigged, the party can just ignore the results, and pro-corpo candidates take in an insane amount of bribes.
Primaries are only rigged in that yes, the rules and the entire framework is built to benefit those currently in power, but that is less rigged than the general is against a third party, which is to say, totally, absolutely, and unassailably rigged. Proclaiming it impossible because it’s rigged is silly when you’re advocating for instead competing in one that is far, far more rigged and has far more structure to prevent any upsets.
We have never actually won a primary and had them ignore it. They use their structural advantages as much as they can, but if we push hard enough to overcome those advantages, they don’t just nullify the election and go with their candidate. We do get people like Ocasio-Cortez in there from time to time, when people actually show up to the primaries enough to flip it to the more progressive candidate. If we got enough candidates like her in, not just in congress but state houses and such too, we’d actually start getting places.
Now the bribes and money on the corporate side, nothing we can do about that - we have to overcome it so that we can get officials in place that will do something about it.
Now lemme put it this way. I live in bumfuck Ohio where there’s no chance of a progressive candidate being elected. But I still vote in every primary. People who live in places where there is more of a chance of doing something need to be as diligent as I am, if not more, damnit.
That system is only for Presidential Primaries. There’s a primary for most positions all the way down to dog catcher. Getting a partisan seat gives you a voice in the state party and possibly the national if your seat is high enough. Get enough Congressional seats and you control the special delegate swing in Presidential Primaries. Might they change that system as a progressive movement gets more seats? Sure, and they can have another riot outside their national convention too.
The very thing you call rigging is vulnerable to a tea party style primary challenge.
Correct. This is why there is essentially zero chance at political reform in this country without large scale violence. Granted, that violence will almost certainly be misdirected, but I think given the actual state of the system it truly is a forgone conclusion that we will see mass civil unrest within the next (~20) years.
Decades ago, a group calling itself The New Party tried to eliminate the spoiler effect of third parties through the practice of electoral fusion, that is, allowing the same candidate to run and appear on the ballot under more than one political party. That way, they’d know where their support came from. But the Democratic Farm Labor Party (Minnesota’s Democratic Party organization) went to court to shut it down, offering the specious argument that it would confuse voters.
Would the corporatist, establishment Democrats allow an upstart progressive movement into its primaries?
The closer they hold primaries, the worse their voter turn out gets. It’s a double edged sword.
Nope, McTurtle got rich along the way. But his lifelong goal has been packing the courts.
He is literally salivating like he just walked into a salad bar at the 42 vacancies Biden is about to hand over.
Moscow Mitch is a politician, and a good one (in the sense of “good at manipulating political affairs”, not “a good person”). He’s a canny cunt, and that’s the most dangerous enemy you could come up with: one that knows what they’re doing.
There is no realistic third party option in the US. The way the right solves this is by primarying out the centrists in favour of people more aligned with their views. Even before Trump there was the Tea Party takeover. I suspect this is the most viable path forward for US leftists too. If Pelosi had her way AOC wouldn’t even have a seat, so there’s proof enough there that the plan can work.
Be the change you want to see then. Make the viable third party that isn’t just a Russian troll op.
“I’m probably going to die before my term is over, but I need to ratfuck the next generation of politicians so fascists get even more chance at fucking over more Americans.”
Might as well just vote yes on everything Trump says, Pelosi.
Bingo
No surprise there.
Establishment Democrats would rather have power held by Republicans than by progressive Democrats.
And AOC has been kowtowing to Pelosi for the last few years in hopes of going along to get along. Hopefully this will wake up progressive Democrats to realize they will never be accepted by corporate Democrats, no matter how much they move to the right to appease them.
AOC 2028.
I wish people would stop saying this. She would lose. I like her, but that doesn’t change the fact that she is not going to be president.
That’s what they would have said about Obama in 2004 if anyone knew his name back then…
AOC could, should, and hopefully will run
That would be awesome. If elected, she would be the first president younger than me. And since she’s undoubtedly smarter than I am, I’m cool with it.
It’s insane how fast they normalized geriatric candidates who both clearly had issues.
The only two presidents over 70 on inauguration day is trump at 70 and Biden at 78, now it’s gonna be trump at 78 again.
Bill was 46, Obama was 47, even GW was 54.
This is a very recent development and everyone’s already acting like anything under 85 is fine
It’s fucking insane to me. Just a complete rejection of reality
This was practically a different country in 2004/2008 and let’s not pretend Obama and AOC are close on the political spectrum.
You could almost say that after 20 years the standard of progressive changed?
Dont tell Pelosi or Biden, they still thinking the standard isn’t open racism, because that’s what it was in the 60s.
But yes, AOC is more progressive in 2024 than Obama in 2004.
But so is fucking society.
If you want the Dem party in 2024 to be the same it was in 2004, that’s like if in 2004 you wanted 1984.
If that’s what you want, go be a conservative and drag them to the middle.
Stop fighting progress because you don’t want it that far. The bigger danger is going too far right. So for fucks sake be honest about your political identity and go moderate the Republican party instead of ruining the only other option.
There are a whole lot of assumptions in this comment. I don’t want a less progressive candidate than AOC. I want a more progressive candidate, but I want one who is going to win. A woman, POC, New Yorker isn’t it, as much as I wish it was.
I also don’t agree that society is more progressive since Obama’s presidency. More tolerant of certain things, sure. But more likely to vote for progressive economic policies? I don’t think so.
As the boomers and older Gen X start to die off, things will slide left. But AOC 2028? Give me a break.
But more likely to vote for progressive economic policies? I don’t think so.
So, that’s your opinion…
That says 5 out of the top 6 policy positions are progressive economic policy…
All over 60% support.
So like, you’re entitled to your opinion, but statistical analysis is still a science and I’m going with science this time.
What people care about is not always what they vote for, and what people say they care about is another thing entirely.
I’ll leave you with this: I want to be proved wrong and champagne is on me if I am. I just don’t believe in Americans enough to believe that we as a whole are going to effect real change.
I’m going to stop trying, though.
She’s a real feisty one who’s only willing to go so far into being “corporate.” With the inevitable loss of Bernie, she will become the most recognized face of progressives in Congress. Her sharp tongue and wit, combined with an excellent ability to get her points made succinctly would serve her well in any attempt to run. She’s more lively and personable than Harris ever was.
I’d say she has an excellent shot at the White House if she so chooses.
Why would she lose?
The normies would project whatever fantasy they want onto her, and she’s hot so it could be positive delusions.
Why would she lose?
I mean, there is no way she would get through the primaries. The party would disband before running a progressive for president.
Everyone says that can’t happen until it happens. We’re getting very close to the era of millennial dominance
She’s also brown, a liberal, and from New York. Even if she had the cure for cancer White America would rather crucify themselves than let her become president.
See, this is why I don’t buy the “Harris lost because she’s a woman of color” crap. Centrists don’t want to admit that moving to the right has hit a wall, and it has the added bonus of being an excuse to shut out AOC.
She didn’t, we know why she lost. The number one issue in polling was the economy and she didn’t convince people she was better on the issue. It turns out that saying nothing will change while homelessness is at a record high (since the Great Depression), and groceries have double or tripled in prices in a couple years is not a winning message with the working class.
Well, now we’ll all get to find out what happens when someone fucks it up as hard as possible instead of just doing nothing.
Do tell. Which dull advocate for an untenable status quo should we run instead?
I’m not them and I’d happily campaign my ass off for AOC, but I expect Whitmer. Who I’d take over the likes of Shapiro or Newsom any day.
I didn’t say AOC wasn’t the best person for the job, only that she won’t win. If I had a better answer, I would gladly offer it up. That said, I’ll keep voting as progressive as i can.
Conventional logic also said Trump would loose but here we are.
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Fuck Nancy Pelosoi and fuck corporate-owned democrats, and fuck the DNC.
All comes down to $$$
AOC is fine when she’s getting trotted out on Twitch-Plays-Pokemon to beg for dollars. But actually giving her power? Fuck that. No business interest would ever donate to the party again if they thought she was what they’d be buying into.
You’re… not making me say fuck the DNC any less with this comment, I hope you realize.
No. But its worth understanding why AOC has survived in her seat longer than Cori Bush or Jamal Bowman did. She’s been following the Sanders entryist playbook, thinking she can eventually get a seat at the table. But every two years, she gets played as a sucker - raising the party a ton of money, then getting stuffed back into the box when her usefulness has passed.
Bush and Bowman couldn’t bring in that kind of coin, so they’ve been punted from the organization and replaced with more doctrinaire loyalists. AOC gets to hold her seat just so long as she finds enough people to keep bankrolling the consultant fees.
At some point, she needs to recognize she’s being strung along or she just becomes another part of the problem.
Didn’t Harris bring in half a B with non-corporate donations within a few weeks of getting the nomination?
non-corporate donations
She unlocked hundreds of millions from bundlers who’d been sitting on the sidelines due to Biden’s tanking poll numbers. But this was money Biden should have already raised up until Harris entered the race. He just wasn’t in a fit mental state to be phone banking and glad handing the big money, like he’d managed back under the Obama campaigns.
Biden actually raised $3.2B back in 2020, thanks to his fundraising network. That he and Harris barely got over a billion (a number Obama matched back in 2008) suggests a huge draw back in support over Biden’s four years as president.
Wow I can’t seem to figure out why Democrats keep losing elections
Pelosi is as bad as Mitch. These corporate backed dinosaurs have no business representing the people.
Because of course she is.
The “Lessor evil” party folks.
I mean… Yes. They are less evil. Way less evil. It’s not even close.
Pelosi is a giant piece of shit, but she doesn’t make the top 75% of conservatives.
Also AOC is a goddamn gem. Conservatives have previously zero of those.
Are Democrats anywhere near where I want to be? No. But I can’t see how anyone could say they’re the same.
There is a seemingly, almost intentional obtuseness to internal criticisms of the DNC from folks on the part of Democrats.
Fundamental to why the right has been able to organize a fascist takeover of this nation is actions like this from the Democratic party. Fascism in this country wouldn’t be ascendant if the DNC didn’t rat-fuck Bernie, twice. Health care CEO’s wouldn’t be getting gunned down in the street if the DNC forced M4A instead of the corporate sellout of Obamacare in 2016. Trump would not have won if Democrats had focused their efforts and spent their political capitol on issues that would make a fundamental difference in peoples lived experience in the period of 2021-2024. We wouldn’t be in this position if Democrats didn’t slow walk the prosecution of Donald Trump, effectively sitting on their hands until an election year to start taking action.
The state of this country is a direct consequence of the managerial class politics, which is all that the DNC has come to represent in a post 2024 world. They enable and empower the ratchet effect that allows the rightwing to become more and more fascist, because they are only ever willing to be a lessor evil.
All of this
IAWTP
They’re rich and using rich advisors from the corporate executive sector. Is it any wonder they act like they don’t care about the working class and don’t care if Trump wins? They probably don’t believe he will do half the stuff he says he’s going to do. They’re used to losing and making millions of dollars off GOP trickle down policies. Crying right into their bank accounts. This is why we need more people from the working class in Congress. Why we need to uncap the House of Representatives. If we let the House of Representatives float a ratio like we used to a couple things happen. One, we can have cheaper, smaller campaigns that aren’t off limits to the working class. Two, we can further reduce the cost of running for office by using telework stuff. Anything classified can be done in any government building or military base that has access to the government’s secure intranet. This isn’t 1940 anymore, there is no more argument for freezing the number the seats in Congress.
Sounds like an endorsement then… enemy of my enemy and all.
You know she’s a great candidate for the people when her own party leaders don’t want her in power.
The Republican party didn’t initially want Trump. I don’t think your logic holds up.
And the Democratic establishment fucking LOVED Clinton and still do. She lost to Trump. Your logic is perfectly sound if you just want to lose.
I didn’t state any sort of logic… You are reading something I damn well never said.
I didn’t state any sort of logic…
If you want to admit that your comment has no logical underpinning, I’ll not disagree.
Because there wasn’t any logic. It only pointed out the flawed logic in the comment it was replying to. You’re acting like this is a gotcha when there is nothing there… It’s such a nonsensical thing to think that pointing out bad logic somehow means I support some other tangentially related thing.
Yet they quickly jumped on board and never took a stand against him. They are lock step now, so just because he didn’t get a warm welcome, they sure do love him now.
Look, I found the problem with the DNC. Yes, it’s rotten to the core and you will never change it.
Never is a long time, though I think the route to meaningful change is not through the Democratic Party. It’s too ossified and is too deeply captured by corporate interests.
There are ways to change it. You can attend local Democratic party meetings in your city. You can also vote in the primaries and you could also call Nancy Pelosi yourself. https://pelosi.house.gov/contact/offices/washington-dc-office
Note about contacting her: sadly she was hospitalized just recently: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/nancy-pelosi-hospitalized-congressional-visit-luxembourg-rcna184144 even if I disagree with her sometimes I still wish her a full recovery. It’s likely that no matter her health it would go to her secretary so perhaps if lots of people call the message would still get passed along to her once she gets better.
They could also get money out of the primary process and that would have the largest impacts
You can attend local Democratic party meetings in your city. You can also vote in the primaries and you could also call Nancy Pelosi yourself.
Good news, everybody. I put in a quick call and made a few salient points. Nancy agreed with me on all of them and says she’s reversing her decision.
even if I disagree with her sometimes I still wish her a full recovery
Why are you so invested in licking boots?
What have you done to make things better? Sitting and not doing anything lets the other people do things you don’t want. Having an influence increases the chances of getting what you want. Imagine if people primaried Nancy Pelosi. Also Nancy Pelosi is likely trying to tank AOC’s committee bid because she feels she’s making the best decision for the party. That’s because people who feel AOC is good for the party aren’t being heard by her.
Sitting and not doing anything
Why are the only two options “Be a three term Congresswoman” or “Do Nothing”?
Having an influence increases the chances of getting what you want.
The problem is that AOC has no influence. She can’t impact the language of legislation, the priorities of national spending, or the operation of her assigned committees.
Imagine if people primaried Nancy Pelosi.
Its been tried, repeatedly. Her position is unassailable, largely by way of name recognition. The cost of running a campaign in a media market as expensive as San Fransisco’s is astronomical. That, combined with her influence in state and local political leadership, means Dems close ranks and shut more left-leaning candidates out of public leadership in local political establishments.
Nancy Pelosi is likely trying to tank AOC’s committee bid because she feels she’s making the best decision for the party
Oh well, in that case, I guess who are we to question her judgement.
I think either my post wasn’t clear or you misread it. I’m talking about simple actions you can take to improve the DNC. If you get involved you can have your voice heard in the party. I’m not talking about AOC’s influence, I’m talking about yours.
If you get involved you can have your voice heard in the party.
I don’t think you’ve ever actually volunteered in a Democratic political campaign. The party leadership is far more interested in talking than listening.
I’m not talking about AOC’s influence
If a three-term Congresswoman with enormous fundraising power isn’t able to influence her Minority Leader, what is she even doing in that job?
what is she even doing in that job?
Waiting for nature to take its course, which won’t be long.
People SCREAMED at the party. Muslim Democrat voters made all the democracy moves, and got told to get lost:
- Organized a massive protest movement,
- Made their desires and convictions known publicly and directly to leadership who’d listen
- Turned out and protested in person
- Were snubbed any kind of representation or platform at the DNC, even for a curated speech by a sitting Congressional member
- Ran a massive protest vote in the Democratic primaries, which if sustained (which it was in the general) meant that the Dems would loose Michigan at a minimum (which Kamala did) and its 15 electoral college votes went for Trump
The party has to be listening for anyone’s voice to be heard. Until you hit your FEC donor limit and the throw down even more for a Super PAC, or pay for a seat at fundraiser dinner/chat a you’re definitely a nobody to them. We need a new party:
Organizers said about 700 people attended the fundraiser. Ticket prices ranged from $3,300 to a half million dollars. Political experts said this visit is essentially a trip to the ATM.
August 12 Zoom event with North Carolina Gov. Roy Cooper, where tickets ranged from $1,000 to $25,000
Ah the good ol WORK HARD GET NOTHING american dream
Even the username ↑ looks like a propaganda bot.
Or organize locally outside the Democratic Party and field your own candidates, unless the Dems come up with one worth endorsing. And also organize for direct action, because democracy is likely to be blocked for a few years.
“We should do a post mortem but first, fuck you specifically AOC.”
