- cross-posted to:
- movies@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- movies@hexbear.net
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dur
The problem is that there’s a fundamental divide between having long, regularly running shows and high quality story-driven stories. IMO they should stick to having long runners with the more old school format, one season a year, possibly more episodes per season, even if the quality suffers from it, and then go all out on limited series that wrap in a single season, and treat those more like extra long movies cut into parts. Now they’re trying to be somewhere in the middle and that’s the result.
Shows overstaying their welcome has always been such a massive issue. Execs see how popular a show becomes and demand more ASAP, even if the show was never meant for it. It’s pretty old now, but Heroes is such a good example. The writers wanted the show to follow an anthology format, mostly new characters and stories every season, but seeing the cult following, NBC wanted more of the same, despite the writing not being there to support it and it went downhill fast.
Yeah things need to have an end with these kinds of stories. Conversely though, there’s definitely stories or concepts which work great in the long term, it’s just that we need to accept maybe they won’t feel like movies and just roll with the formulaic nature, nothing wrong with the monster of the week IMO.
“Can’t wait to watch this in 10 years when it’s finished”
Ya don’t fuggin say… Could have told you that a decade ago…
It also hurts to kill shows that were really good and instead replace them with reality TV trash.
reality shows serves the lowest common denominators, no need to pay for scriptwriters or actors, low cost.
Yeah no shit, I stop caring after 2 years
Care? I’ve forgotten the series even exists after 1 year.
“Data suggests” as if it necessitated a deep study and wasn’t very apparent already.
There’s a certain impression among management that “apparent” isn’t enough to make justifiable decisions. To make proper decisions, you need facts. The most obvious type of facts are numbers.
There is a common misconception that numbers and a story about them are required for good decisions. Worse, some seem to think they’re all it takes.
“If you can’t measure it, you can’t manage it” is bullshit and MBAs were a mistake.
I think they are falling into the same trap as the quantitative fallacy that McNamara fell into. They only think in terms of numbers and nothing else. So they only care about what’s measurable. You know what’s not measurable? Art. Taste. Their entire business model. So of course a bunch of MBAs are going to fuck it all up because they are just extrapolating what was good in the past and what is quantifiable. Of course they have no over arching strategy and their tent poles end like a wet fart because they don’t have any direction in mind and they can’t stop fucking inserting themselves. I get the feeling that the execs at Netflix (much like most producers) don’t even like the productions they are a part of. Like watching the McDonald’s CEO try to eat a hamburger.
So they only care about what’s measurable.
Worse yet, they’ll pick something measurable, declare it an appropriate proxy, handwave any concerns about accuracy with the 80/20 rule (without ever checking whether the inaccuracy actually fits into those 20%), talk about the higher level view and big picture and make my life hard by refusing to actually engage with my questions about what they wanna measure, then complain when they don’t understand the result of my best guess.
Some managers are lovely to work with. Others have a bunch of buzzwords and wisecrack quotes that sound authoritative in place of sound reasoning.
Netflix is especially susceptible to this since their platform gave them far far more data about viewing habits than any previous media platform. I’m not surprised they got addicted to data, and then went down the fallacious path of “facts don’t exist unless they’re in our data”.
“No shit” /thread
The shitty writing is also hurting Netflix viewership. As is cancelling shows that are well written and have a fanbase just because you have to pay the actors and staff more after 3 seasons.
that too, sandman had the comic to go on, but they still are pretty cringly written, not to mention change the characthers away from the source material. we know gwendoline was great, but she doesnt fit into the lucifer role. blood of zeus had issues too apparently.
What you don’t want to wait 3 years for a new season of a show that will be far more written by a committee of execs who know nothing of artistry and only care about metrics and what’s currently popular, only to find out a month to a year later that it’s been canceled prematurely?
or netflix, wait a few years, then make 1 last season and then cancelling it, while they forgot the other seasons already.
Not even just Netflix. My interest in a show like severance has completely dissipated. I could care less if the show ends in writing or ends by cancellation. It has taken way too long for this show to get more episodes, let alone wrap up. I do not want to rewatch the show every time a new season comes out just so I do not miss out on key details on the new season. I do not want to watch a summary at the beginning of each episode to remind me of those key details because I didn’t rewatch the whole series before starting the new episodes. Oh and only for them to release 8 episodes per season at that!?!
Then take something like pluribis, really good TV show they were greenlit for two seasons by apple right off the bat. Yet only had one ready when it released? What bullshit is that? I am tired of getting invested in worlds only for me to have to wait years to MAYBE get invested again. What happened to the 25 episode per season days… Fuck we had it good.
seems all these shows always ends with terribly written series finale anyways, because they took so long in between seasons they forgotten how the show went.
With Pluribus, the first season aired in November 2025, and as of June 2026 they still haven’t finished writing season 2 yet. I have no idea why it’s like that.
Meanwhile on the other end of the spectrum, Slow Horses season 6 starts this week, and they’re already filming season 8 lol.
God Pluribus sucked. IDK how Vince Gilligan went from producing some of the best television in history with Breaking Bad and Saul, to this absolute snooze-fest of a show. I couldn’t even make it past the second episode. Even with its slow-burn storytelling, BCS was still more attention-grabbing than Pluribus.
I’m shocked by this take. I thought it was a wonderful show that turned in quality performances. You do you. I hope you found some other show you loved.
I watched the whole season and thought it was okay (but yeah very slow like you say), and TBH I’ve already forgotten what happened and I don’t particularly want to watch the whole thing again to catch up if season 2 is still a year away (or more.)
What happened to the 25 episode per season days
I, for one, do not miss those days. That being said, shows with that many episodes were either cheap/not very good or had short episodes (around 22 minutes). In the latter case, that would make the season around 12 episodes long which isn’t all that different from what we have now.
I heard an analysis of it once that when you had 22-24 episode seasons you could take chances on a couple episodes. You had episodes that did a western theme or shot it in reverse or some other odd thing. Not all we’re hits but at least it was different from everything else and sometimes they were amazing. Now with 8 episodes everything has to drive the plot forward.
You’re not just talking ablut posssibilities, but also about extremely different types of shows. You can have both. I like shows like community that do the type of thing you mention but I enjoy shows like barry far more.
That’s fine you can like whatever you want. The thing is, I don’t think a single show on any of the streaming shows has 22 episode seasons. We are just asking for that format to not disappear.
That format was mostly just extremely short episodes with a lot of advertisements as padding. A show should have as many episodes as its creator wants. If most choose fewer and longer episodes, so be it. Also, as I’ve already explained, a season with 10 50 minute episodes is literally the same as a 20 episode show with 25 minute long episodes. You’re just asking for the episodes to be edited differently. Instead, I propose you look into what a pause button does. It might just be the only thing you need to get your 20 episodes back.
I’m not sure if you’re just being a troll or serious with this. A 1 hour episode isn’t just 2 30 minute episodes put together. Each episode has a full story arc, theme, lesson, etc. you couldnt have the first half of your 50 min episode be a sherlock holmes episode then the second half be a normal episode focused on the story. Also the artists aren’t making the decision how many episodes netflix will buy.
Sure bud.
I like those series that are 15-20 episodes and then done. A lot of Korean series are like that.
Damn right. A good miniseries will always trump a good long running one in my books.
What’s with the downvotes though? Do people dislike maths or something?
I’ll never watch Friends, Buffy or any other series from that era because there is way too much to watch! Fully agree with you.
I don’t watch a Netflix series that isn’t 100% complete already, because they cancel fucking everything. It’s not worth the investment.
I’m still mad about Santa Clarita Diet
I’m mad about Cowboy Bebop, which was actually pretty good, despite what you may have heard.
Netflix didn’t advertise it to normies and die hard anime fans trashed it. I think if they had advertised it to people like my dad, it would have done well.
Cho was the right guy for the job 20 years ago. Vicious did not need the Kylo Ren treatment. Faye was neutered. Ed was absent. Jet was perfect. Overall the show was too fast where it needed to be slow and too slow where it needed to be fast.
Not surprised it got canceled. It’s a shame to think of what could have been.
The Vicious stuff was my least favorite part. I actually liked how they changed that story quite a bit, but the scenes just didn’t hold up. Idk if it was casting or editing.
Chris Yost did a great job with the three main characters though and I think that’s the right take as he goes into production on Dungeon Crawler Carl so I’m excited to see how that turns out.
I’d have loved a prequel series about Jett. The casting was perfect and a noir crime serial set in that universe could slap.
Can confirm, my dad watched it and loved it and he’s not an anime guy in the slightest.
My dad also loved it and has never heard of the original
Heard of original but never watched it. I liked the netflix one.
That was actually the straw that broke my back. Cancelled every subscription I had and went back to sailing.
So I guess in a way I should thank them on helping me save hundreds of dollars a year in this economy.
Still doesn’t fill the void left by the SCD cancellation…
Cancelled every subscription I had and went back to sailing.
… helping me save hundreds of dollars a year in this economy.
I’m gonna need to see the math on that.
That was before everyone and their dogs has their own streaming services. “In this economy,” implies now with 20 different services out there. I’m still not paying anything. Hence the hundreds.
We never found out what happens with Mr. Ball legs!
Me too that was bullshit! Fuck Netflix any show I got into they canceled.
Fuck that show was so good
I learned decades ago to do the same with book series.
I’m glad I never got into A Song of Fire and Ice when my friend recommended it to me about it in university about 20 years ago.
Well, first season of AGOT is airing soon, a dance of dragons is also releasing soon, this seems like a great time to dive into the series! - me
Too true. I was recommended that too about 20 years ago, I had been out of university for a while by then. I looked, thought, I’ll wait for it to finish. I’m really surprised he hasn’t just hired some Brandon Sanderson type to finish it like Sanderson did for Wheel of Time. Maybe after he dies… I’m not being morbid, and I don’t wish death on Martin.
Unless he changed his mind, he has already said he won’t let anyone else finish it even if he dies. So chances are slim.
Hard to stop anyone from doing anything once you’re a corpse. If there’s enough money involved, somebody is gonna finish that series whether he likes it or not.
His estate will also have fuck you money. So if the executor sticks with his wishes, then it’ll be difficult and costly for anyone to go against it. There is always the chance they will try to make more money by selling the rights though. So who knows?
And Brandon Sanderson said he wouldn’t do it because it’s a very different style from his
Kingkiller Chronicles taught me that one
Came here to say this… It’s so freaking nuts he hasn’t finished it.
Either it never gets finished or it finishes long after it should’ve.
not just netflix, every streaming service/studio does that now.
I really like the artist/author Brian K Vaughn. Millions of people do. One of the best selling authors of graphic novels that exists.
Just finished reading “Y: The Last Man”, oh, there’s a TV show?.. canceled after one season…
“Paper Girls”?.. canceled after one season…
If they try to tell me that “Saga” is in the works for a TV adaptation (which… fucking good luck) I would hardly be exited for it. Because why get my hopes up? The books are amazing anyways. The art is beautiful in the way it was illustrated. The only advantage a TV show has ever given is being able to easily share the story with family and watch together.
Apple doing it right. They have Silo and they just finished season 3 and 4 already filmed and will be out next year.
I’m so glad they’re the ones that got Brando Sando. I’m so excited for the Stormlight show
Apple isn’t perfect. They cancelled Sunny on a cliffhanger after a single season.
Sunny was great. That was a show I couldn’t get my friends to watch for some reason.
They cancelled Big Door Prize on a cliffhanger too.
But overall, I do think the Sci-Fi shows they make are of good quality.
Yes, in terms of the quality of their shows they are consistently high compared to competitors.
Then you have pluribus which is going to be at least two years between seasons. If I had known that I wouldn’t have bothered with the first season.
If anything they’re adding too many seasons! Ted Lasso was done. Also I thought For all mankind was done… Had such a great finale. Then the latest season dropped!
I don’t understand how you thought FAM was done when they left it wide open at the end of every season.
The showrunners expected 6 or 7 seasons for “for all mankind”: https://collider.com/for-all-mankind-seven-season-plan-writers-comments/
I gave up on All Man Kind when they got to Mars and met North Korean. It just started to get to ridiculous for me. The first 2 seasons were good.
They mentioned North Korea building its own Mars program multiple times. It wasn’t ridiculous if you paid attention.
The skuttlebutt is there’s a spinoff coming too. Based on a new book coming out.
So we will see. Either way good stuff.
He has specifically said Saga will never be adapted while he has the power to say so. He says the story fits the comic medium perfectly and would be diluted going to film. This was even before Y and PG got canned. I really love his work, and actually enjoyed the 2 shows.
I just went ahead and read those Brian K Vaughn series without ever watching the shows because they actually have endings; except for Saga, of course, which will doubtless continue in fits and starts for another twenty years.
To be fair, Y the Last Man was a terrible show
Yeah Kaos was the last blow to me, especially being it sounds like everyone involved in that really enjoyed it, it was the numer 1 show at the time, and the next two parts were already outlined and ready to shoot with an actual ending already in mind.
Netflix proved with Kaos that there is no actual logic behind their content decisions
I don’t know if it’s true but I read somewhere that Netflix cancels a lot of shows after 3 seasons because there are things in the contracts where people get paid more to make the show after three seasons.
I do that with all series. I watched Breaking Bad shortly after the last episode aired, and did so with all series ever since. I have a list of series I want to watch, but they will wait until they are done.
I don’t watch half of a movie either, why would I watch half of a series.
👆
that seems irrelevant to this issue. this is about people who do initially watch that lose interest.
New data from Domino’s suggests that waiting 16 hours for pizza delivery did not please customers. More at 11:00.
New data confirms CEOs need data and cannot just think for 5 seconds like a normal human being
This
Its an obvious thing and I’ve stopped watching countless shows because it took years to get to the next season of just only 10 over produced episodes
Those that I did watch, it took me half of those episodes yo just get back into it again, and quite a few I just dropped out before I got to that half because of course you’re completely out of it
Then the 10 episodes… Give me back the 24 45 minutes episodes, PLEASE. I want the filler bottle episodes as many of the best episodes are bottle shows. The few over produced episodes are typically lots of bowwow, fireworks and bling bling fun spectacles, but they’re rarely the best episodes.
also the cancelling of the shows before season one finishes.
I would welcome more of that. Don’t write season 1 to set up an arc that will take 7 seasons to complete. Don’t end it on a cliff hanger. I would love more single season shows. That way, I watch the last episode, appreciate the fine work that the cast and crew did, and forget about it for the rest of my life (unless I want to rewatch it or recommend it to a friend).
Recently, there was a bit of an uproar because Spider-Man Noir is starting to be nominated for awards but Amazon has announced that they are not doing a second season. I think Amazon’s error was considering season 2 at all. The show has a neat arc, it ties up all the loose threads, and the final scene is the characters moving on with their lives.
The arc takes as long as they think they can get away with it and hold viewers. Stringing people along like Game of Thrones did. I doubt they have much of a plan beyond 3-5 seasons for most series these days.
I am sure that when writers start a show with a multi-season arc, they have a mental map of what they want to tell in each season. Then the studio comes along and cancels the show after they film a cliffhanger or tells them to stretch the final part of the story into 3 more seasons (and then cancels it after the first of the filler seasons flops).
From what I understand, that was not the case for Game of Thrones. Going into the last season, the show still had a great audience and ratings and HBO was eager to keep milking it. It was the writers who insisted on ending the show and had enough clout to get HBO to agree. My assumption is that they ran out of ideas to keep the show going, realized that George R. R. Martin was hoping they would come up with an ending he could use in the books, and resigned on a high trying to get other jobs before the final season ruined their reputations.
they were able to keep fans happy with house of dragons series.
Did people pay to investigate that? Because, uh, fucking duh
Literally all you had to do was go to a Stranger Things subreddit/facebook group literally any time between seasons (2-3, etc.) and you’d have novellas-worth of proof.
I’ve stopped watching so many shows Stranger Things, Wednesday. So many shows I liked got canceled I don’t even watch series anymore.
they could probably write out a more robust series.
I saw a study the other day explaining that people that learned how to swim at some point in their life are statistically less likely to drown.
In other news, a new study plans to analyze the wetness of water over the next five years.
That one actually surprises me. I’m a lot more willing to put myself in positions where I might drown because I know how to swim. If I didn’t I wouldn’t go in pools or on boats
I’m guessing the investigation was to determine how strong the effect is, to see how much money is worth spending to avoid the issue?
They also lose viewership when jacking prices or repeatedly canceling series.
I basically won’t start a series that hasn’t ended because I got tired of getting invested into something that gets botched or canceled.Don’t forget the commercials, arhhh ye land lovers
I know it doesn’t really matter, but it is landlubber. A lubber is someone who is awkward or clumsy. So a landlubber was someone who was awkward on a ship because they weren’t accustomed to the sea.
Til, well thank you
Huh, all these years I thought land lubber was just a mispronunciation of land lover. An important one just because it has personality, but still technically “wrong”. Crazy.
I should do that and also start waiting for the first critics to complain, because I’m still pissed about the first Netflix Avatar season and the second one got me riled up as well.
I mean I will probably still watch the third one, but … I don’t know. I have absolutely no clue how to cope with this.
Netflix, what the fuck are you doing? You were the chosen one. The light bringer!
Oh, wait…
