You think being white and middle class will save you? Bullshit. We’re all on the menu.
I’d like to point out a few things in this legal logic bomb here. I’m not a lawyer either but…
- The administration declared being illegal a crime even though it is a civil matter so they can create this illegal loophole.
- The article states that that removal of citizenship for criminal charges would allow trial by jury.
- The current administration is making denaturalization go through civil court to strip defendants of any right to a trial by jury or lawyers if they can’t afford one.
However, if all defendants tried in civil court solely on the charge of being here illegally, then they are not a criminal for being illegal by their own definition because they are in civil court. Even if they are being busted for a crime other than being illegal, they still have to go through the criminal court process for denaturalization which is by a trial with jury. I’m going insane trying to follow this cluster fuck of logic. –
Native-born Americans never have to worry about losing their citizenship, no matter what they do.
that is far too confident a statement
They’re called Indians are for a reason. So we’re going to deport them to …throws a dart at a map the Indian Ocean.
The government can only do this in specific situations. It must prove someone “illegally procured” citizenship by not meeting the requirements, or that they lied or hid important facts during the citizenship process.
Civil suit. Can anyone file a complaint?
Yes, but they’ll deport first. You can appeal from wherever.
I’m thinking of citizens filing complaints about emerald mine nepo babies and models on genius visas
I hope you Americans are happy letting these people remain power, happy letting this happen.
There are processes in place to deal with this.
What we have is a lack of fortitude.
Cuban’s and Venezuelan’s are the main targets with this. And they overwhelmingly voted for Trump. (because a lot of them are far right refugees that fled Communist dictatorships) They thought a far right government in the US was on their side. FAFO.
As a naturalized Venezuelan I wish these MF two in the thoughts and one in the prayers.
I dIdN’t vOtE fOr tHiS.
Eeeyep. And my reply to them?
“You did. You absofuckinglutely did. History has proven time and time and time and (four hours later) time again that right-wing dictatorships do EXACTLY what the Shitgibbon’s administration is doing. You voted for it. You just hoped it’d happen to the people you didn’t like. News flash. They don’t like you. So, pack your bags and drop your shorts. The Dildo of Consequences has arrived, and as usual, it is not lubed. Enjoy!!!”
I prefer to give people space to change who they are and how they vote.
The time for that was after trumps first go at fucking us in the ass. I have no sympathy left for anyone that asked for this this time. Change all they want, I don’t have any more capacity to care if their life was fucked because of their vote. I’ve never felt this way about any particular person before so it’s new to me, but this fucking broke my empathy for the fools that thought this would work out in any scenario.
I can feel bad for their kids who had no say. But not for the pigs that asked to be slaughtered. The least they could do is have the decency to not act surprised when their throat is slit.
Agreed, but what is disappointing is to see these people not change after they see consequences.
At which point I have no more empathy for their plite.
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I doubt that. Perhaps eventually, but you first deport the opponents voters.
🤔But maybe they’re that stupid.
Your doubt doesn’t change facts. You have the internet. Use it.
This is extra satisfying considering how many of those that fled are actually just evil fascist capitalists. FAFO indeed.
Yup. When people point to the small percentage of Black Americans and Hispanic Americans t that vote republican it’s solely because of the American Cuban and American Venezuelan population. They were wishing and hoping they’d at least get to be house slaves. (Historically, house slaves lives were just as brutal as manual labor slaves. The brutality was more sexual and psychological focused.) But the oligarchy doesn’t care anymore, if they can get white slaves that’s what they’ll go with. It’s honestly shocking to see poor white Americans faces when they realized they were also expected to work the fields along black Americans ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
While I hate what’s happening to (gestures broadly) there is a bright side, dark as it may be to look at it this way.
Most of the people currently being targeted tend to vote Republican, so there will be less of those people to vote, and the ones still in the country come election day have a higher chance of not voting or flipping against the Republicans.
Also more and more non-minority maga are saying “I didn’t vote for this” and getting hurt by these policies. If just a small portion of those gets out from under the brainwashing and either doesn’t vote or votes 3rd party instead that could also cost Republicans races.
Margins were tight in a fair amount of races last cycle, house, senate, and president. If elections are allowed and there’s no tampering with votes, the Republicans stand a good chance of losing the house in 26 and the white house in 28. There’s also state governments to look at but I don’t want to write a small novel in the comments.
All of this assumes we will still have elections.
One of the last steps in Project 2025 is issuing Martial Law and using that to cancel elections.
Yep, last paragraph “if elections are allowed”
I do not have high hopes of that happening.
I take comfort in knowing that, if I live a normal lifespan, Trump will die in my lifetime. Unfortunately, all the hatred and bigotry won’t die with him.
It’s going to get worse as he gets replaced aby a more competent facist.
If it isn’t Mussolini style I’ll be disappointed, I can’t lie.
We all will.
I won’t be surprised if he is made a religious prophet by certain Christianity sects.
The cultural relief felt when thatcher died was palpable, and I wasn’t even alive when she was actively fucking the country.
I lived near Brixton, South London. There was an immediate street party.
He’s absolutely a figurehead. Dozens of people are lining up to be the face of a much bigger fascist coalition.
Nobody else has the ability to be the cult leader that he is. But maybe they’ll be entrenched enough that they don’t need the cultists’ support any more.
Plus, hasn’t he pretty well decimated the GOP ranks? Any worthy competitor has been exiled or humiliated or both leaving the ranks filled with only sniveling sycophants and uncharismatic bigots.
Cool, let them fight it out
There has to be a pathetic charmer in that bunch. It really is amusing this here temu run at fascism.
The contest won’t be over who can imitate Trump the best. It’ll be who can use Trump as a martyr best. They all know Trump is the glue that holds their machine together.
Invoking a cult leader as a martyr can only get you so far. I’m unconvinced there’s anyone else likely to successfully take on the mantle of cult leader after him. I guess we’ll see eventually.
Invoking a cult leader as a martyr can only get you so far.
Thousands of years, billions of followers, largest global influence, as this is basically what christianity is built from
I’m honestly surprised that the fuck head that he is, has been able to build a cult. He’s so fucking good damn repugnant.
More a disfigurehead amiright?
I don’t think I can handle things getting much worse
I have theories about what may happen when Trump inevitably dies. 1. The best case scenario is Trump dies, and his whole empire just slowly fizzles out and goes away. 2. Trump dies, and then the true religion of Trump begins much in the same way as Jesus when he was crucified, and his supporters believed that he will rise from the grave, bringing about a new apocalypse and judgment for the non-believers. 3. Trump dies and a new vicious wave of domestic terrorism breaks out all over the country if not, the globe. 4. Trump dies and his supporters go full Jonestown and commit mass suicide. 5. Trump dies and his supporters believe that he will reincarnate much like the Dalai Lama bringing forth a new group of charlatans and snake oil salesman, believing that they are the reincarnation of Trump starting a new way of life and a new cult of Trump. 6. Trump dies and his supporters do not believe it in and reported sightings of him being alive will exist far after the fact much the same way as Elvis.
Tell me more about option 4.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown
This is a link to the Wikipedia page of Jonestown. While not completely the same, there are some very key similarities. I feel between Jonestown and the Trump cult.
Trump dies, and then the true religion of Trump begins much in the same way as Jesus when he was crucified, and his supporters believed that he will rise from the grave, bringing about a new apocalypse and judgment for the non-believers.
How dare you speak this evil into existence
Don’t worry, #6 has precedent. It is the most likely.
Sorry, yea it’s very possible. If you watch anime the after credits scene of death note is probably what will happen.
Of all the people for the dipshits to rally around, they picked this failed game show host. It’s so very much stupider than I could have possibly imagined. I sort of get how they lionized Ronnie Raygun, despite how awful he was for this country and so on…the veneer at least seems halfway decent and he at least pretended to love this country and those that live in it.
Taco has just a complete disregard for everything good about this country and hates everyone. What is there to like about that?
I believe that they like how he doesn’t care about anything but himself much like his supporters they only care about themselves and also being racist. And also Trump already being known helped and Obama being elected broke a lot of peoples minds. I live in a small town of about 4k people and the day after Obama was elected you would have thought that a 2nd 9/11 happened or a nuke was dropped. I also remember around that time an older coworker said that this country needs a rich, selfish, racist president and damn I should have put on it then. There are alot more factors that lead to where we are now with trump being president. We can only hope and cross our fingers that he dies soon.
I live in a small town of about 4k people and the day after Obama was elected you would have thought that a 2nd 9/11 happened or a nuke was dropped.
I remember I worked with a guy and another co-worker was sometimes still finishing up listening to NPR at a low volume, and around that time (Obama years), they’d be playing a soundbite from Obama. Almost every time Obama was talking, even though we could just barely hear it, the other co-worker would turn to me and mutter how much he hated Obama’s voice. Like clockwork. Not what he was saying (if we could even make it out). Just his voice. This same co-worker thought NPR, ABC, NBC, CBS, MSNBC, etc…were all extreme left outlets, too, lol. And he spent some period of time where he was super-upset about…checks notes…seeing two government workers in a trucks. He mentioned this multiple times, so I can only guess it was some thing on hate radio around that time. When asked follow-up questions on why he’s upset, nothing coherent could be discerned. Same dude was riled up about people that couldn’t afford their house getting bailed out by government, or something, too.
I lost contact with him before Taco was elected, but I can only imagine he thinks that Taco is “fixing” everything. I don’t know what he was like before Obama, but he was nearly inconsolable about Obama. It’s why I think they uncreatively talk about “TDS” when Taco does completely outrageous things - Obama did completely normal things, or even if he did nothing at all, and they lost their heads over it.
This pretty much sounds exactly like my day-to-day life with coworkers as well. They are hard-core Trump supporters no matter what Ride Or Die for Trump even now with the Epstein files being unreleased. A few of them were upset about it but as of now they are still 100% behind Trump no matter what. I do think and feel that the Epstein files not being released may actually drive a divide between Trump supporters, but in the deep rural areas of America,I highly doubt even this will cause them to lose any faith in their would be King.
My Republican coworkers thought Trump was a clown and a joke who would never be elected, then after he won, it was “he’s not that bad”, and “people are too hard on him”.
I’m hoping for 4 but realistically I think it’ll be 5 but with a twist. They’ll have to find and agree to 1 leader, and internal fighting and splitting of the cult will begin. Whether or not they’re able to pick a leader will depend on how long t has left to live - he hasn’t publicly declared who is next in line and there isn’t anyone else that’s anywhere close to leading maga. If he dies today maga will be fucked.
Yes definitely. And in my personal opinion 5 would be the most entertaining outcome.
Well, there are conspiracy theories Hitler didn’t die and he fled to Argentina. Even if that were true I think he’d be dead by now
I believe Trump is just the warm up. Full on religious hegemony is yet to come.
We are far less religious than any point in recorded history.
That was true for Iran in the 70s, too.
And, supposedly, the US government a year ago.
And yet the people in charge of the judiciary are more religiously motivated than they’ve been in nearly a century.
It doesn’t really matter if we as a society are less religious than ever if the people with their hands on the tiller are not. There’s a reason they are called reactionaries…
100% this is part of p25. The dismantling of the government now will allow this to come into fruition. They’ll continue to remove everyone who won’t align, citizen or not.
This is what you voted for protest-non-voters.
People facing denaturalization get no free lawyer, meaning poor defendants often face the government alone. There’s no jury trial — just a judge deciding whether someone deserves to remain American. The burden of proof is lower — “clear and convincing evidence” instead of “beyond a reasonable doubt.” Most important, there’s no time limit, so the government can go back decades to build cases.
Please stop promoting this line.
There is a growing mountain of evidence people did vote. Votes weren’t counted. Overseas ballots never arrived.
This line of commenting validates the election for them.
He’s a cheater. He cheated in 3 elections. 1st one was too obvious 2nd one too many people voted against him to make the cheat work, making him think that the other side rigged it 3rd one was the smoothest fix ever with Elon money and know-how.
If you’ve wondered why everything looks like a coup since he got in, perhaps it is because it is one.
Exactly… don’t blame the billionaires, oligarchs, or the criminally corrupt political class… don’t blame the 70 million fascists, or the 100 million people who completely ignore politics… or the Democrats who fail to motivate all of them and maintain unwavering support for a genocidal ethnostate… or the 60 million neolib centrists who insist on supporting the lesser of two evils, and reject “radical change” after the 5th “once-in-a-lifetime” crisis in a decade.
Blame the phantom protest voters, without evidence, instead… THIS IS ALL THEIR FAULT.
The “protest voters” are basically “the jews” or “immigrants” scapegoat for liberals. At least you get to enjoy the smell of your own farts while the fascist coup proceeds unabated.
News flash: Everyone you mention is getting blame.
We’re not absolving the 77 million (to correct your numbers) Trump voters. In fact, this is explicitly called out whenever someone says “This is not what I voted for!” on Team Red. Especially when we say “Oh, no, this is exactly what you voted for, but you voted for it to happen to other people. Suck it up, buttercup!”
And the 100 million non-voters? They are EXACTLY who are being called out by someguy3. I mean, ‘protest-non-voters’ explicitly belong in the group of 100 million who don’t vote.
And don’t forget a lesson everyone old enough to vote should have learned a loong, loong time ago. We don’t always get what we want. When the choices are “Greater Evil” and “Lesser Evil”, which they are all too often, either you vote “Lesser Evil” or accept the consequences of “Greater Evil”. 100 million people said they couldn’t be bothered to choose, and 2 million thought they had a viable alternative beyond “Greater Evil” and “Lesser Evil” and threw their votes away for distraction candidates.
And here we are. Enjoy your Mango Mussolini. That’s the guy you picked with all the ranting you did above, assuming you didn’t swallow your pride and vote Harris in '24. In that case, other people making your argument picked Mango Mussolini for all of us.
It’s partly their fault. If the lazy non voters participated in democracy we might not be here but apathy has always been the order of the day for them their whole lives. It’s not just last election, it’s all of em.
Oh… it’s all of the people you mentioned. That doesn’t excuse anyone who didn’t vote against this
Who said I’m blaming? I’m informing protest-non-voters what they voted for. Honestly, that you feel/think blame is telling.
I’m not American, and I’ve advised people to vote blue no matter who for over 20 years, so as a foreigner watching America slide towards fascism for decades I can tell you, American liberals are just as much to blame for fascism as the uneducated morons brainwashed by it.
Both parties have been destroying the working classes economic mobility for almost 50 years. Just because 1 party is worse than the other that doesn’t absolve either of their sins.
Yet now, at the final hour, you blame a phantom left for not biting the pillow, as though that would’ve changed the multi-decade fall of the empire.
I tell ya what, though. Just cry harder and blame the left. It’s worked for fascism!
I can tell you, American liberals are just as much to blame for fascism as the uneducated morons brainwashed by it.
“D-don’t blame people who allowed fascism to take over… that’s mean… but FUCK those who tried to stop it, literally as bad as fascists!”
About the level of discourse I expect from Lemmy at this point.
OK maybe you had a shitty day, but listen to yourself: “D-don’t…”
this kind of speech also works well online. great.
and then you seriously go ahead and lament the level of discourse here.
I’d say the big issue was being okay with the status quo for Democrats. A Republican administration would come in, set us back in several regards. Then the Democrats come back into power and shrug things off for a number of issues. For sure there were a number of problems they tried to fix and were focused on, but when the number of votes just aren’t there you gotta focus on the things you can fix. The main issue Democrats have allowed to simmer for some God forsaken reason and has made future problems was not trying to revert/amend the No Child Left Behind policies, the defunding of education, and not trying to bring back and expand the Fairness Doctrine to apply to all social media, including influencers.
I’m sure there are places on the Internet where you could sell that “ghost” story, but Lemmy during the runup to the election was like 45%+ people arguing for protest votes and vote abstaining as a means of “punishing” Democrats for a millenia-old religious feud on the other side of the world. Obviously this isn’t physical, definitive proof that protest voters and abstainers actually moved the electoral needle for Trump, I’m just letting you know why no one’s really buying it here.
So… your argument has no evidence or basis in reality, beyond the anecdotal from your own experience on Lemmy/SM?
All you’ve done is provide another datapoint for why Liberals have helped turn America into a fascist dictatorship… Living in a manufactured reality based on feefees and propaganda instead of empiric evidence…
I mean, the evidence is right there.
In 2020, 81 million people turned out for Biden. That number decreased to 75 million in 2024.
In 2020, 74 million people turned out for Trump. That number increased to 77 million in 2024.
In 2020, roughly 2.9 million people turned out for a third party candidate. Of these, 1.8m went Libertarian, with 407k for Green. In 2024, 2.9 million turned out for a 3rd party. This time it broke 862k for the Greens, 756k for Junior (I refuse to sully the Kennedy Name with him!), and 650k for the Libertarians.
Explicit evidence that requires a minimum of data science skills to process. 6 million people who voted for Biden didn’t turn out for Harris, while Trump somehow got 3 million more people to vote for him. Meanwhile, support for the Libertarians cratered by 1.2m, and support for the Greens doubled from 407k to 862k. And Junior? He was explicitly in the race to hurt Dems. So, another 756k added to the Dem ‘alternative’ vote, now split between two parties. So, from 1.8m spoiling the Right in 2020 to 1.6m spoiling the Left.
The data is there if you’re willing to look. All 1.6m of those people who voted Green or Junior for some strange reason? They voted for this. Just like the 6 million people who voted for Biden in 2020 and didn’t in 2024, or the unknown number of people, estimated betwen 90m and 100m, who sat home. And of course, the 77 million who voted directly for Trump. Every last one of these people, save the fraction of the 77 million who want what Trump promised, could have had a seat at the table and a voice at trying to drive the monolith that is US policy, but they elected to surrender their agency.
I know you don’t like to hear this, but everyone who made those choices above has surrendered this country to Fascism. And I’m not sorry for calling it out.
I didn’t make an argument at all, I simply described my experience of reality in an effort to help you understand why people here are disagreeing with you. Don’t worry, I won’t try to help you again.
Don’t worry, I won’t try to help you again.
I’m not the one living in a fascist dictatorship, blaming the people who saw this coming decades ago, numbnuts. You are!
Maybe you should take a break from sniffing your own farts and try to learn from history, instead of repeating 2016 and 2024 all over again?
Lol you’re still on the blame strawman. Again, I am informing protest- non-voters what they voted for. That you keep trying to strawman this hard even after being corrected is funny. Ciao.
Ok, now go “inform” your shitty corpo democrats that they should PANDER BETTER to their own fucking electorate. Signed, a Canadian sick of stupid American politics. Do better yanks.
Feeling a little defensive, are we?
Oh sweet summer child. The Russians did a decade of recon on the US election system before this play. Of all the elections to bitch about voters this is not the one. And people rang the alarms, DEFCON’s voting village didn’t exist until recently.
Wat.
I attended defcons voting village in 2017. That’s not recent.
Yes I believe that was the first year. Do you remember why they added it?
Defcon 25 appears to be the first year of the voting village.
That said the late 2000s were full of discussion on voting machine security prior to the addition of the voting village. This was all old news by the time voting village was added.
This documentary explains where security was in 2006
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0808532/
I haven’t watched this in a very long time but the hackers managed to procure source code from a public sever run by the company making the machines (Diebold I think) and faced some legal issues as a result.
They also illustrated a proof of concept attack where a counting machine was made to miscount votes to favor one person over another.
For people not in the know its very important to know that it is ILLEGAL for an independent 3rd party to perform penetration tests on voting machines without the manufacturer’s consent and the code that runs these machines is not public in any way that would allow for a proper audit of the systems to ensure that even the manufacturer has not tampered with the machine.
Yeah it’s been in a bad state for a long time and that’s what enabled 2016’s initial recon campaign. And thus voting village was born. And everyone proceeded to ignore the nerds like any other dumb movie.
Welcome to the last 20 years. (Someone older than me would likely say last 40… and so on)
Who’s bitching? I am informing protest-non-voters what they voted for.
If they’re here they already know and you probably need to be rallying them.
I’m telling them to vote. This is inane, ciao.
No you’re not, you’re just needlessly antagonizing them to virtue signal.
If you think/feel antagonized, that’s telling.
virtue signal.
I wonder how you would classify their action of protest non voting lol. Ciao.
Good luck ever getting your conservative dems elected again.
For most of American history, taking away citizenship has been rare. But it increased dramatically during the 1940s and 1950s during the Red Scare period characterized by intense suspicion of communism. The United States government targeted people it thought were communists or Nazi supporters. Between 1907 and 1967, over 22,000 Americans lost their citizenship this way.
This is why it’s not good enough to simply stop doing horrible shit…
We need to change the laws to prevent future admins from abusing them
Easiest way here is make losing citizenship a criminal charge, with the whole ‘appointed lawyer’ and ‘burden of proof’ that designation includes. That’s one thing a Dem “Project 2029” should include.
Stop acting like laws can fix fascism. Half of everything Trump, the GOP, and every lobbyists, have ever done is criminal and breaking dozens of existing laws. Laws only matter if they’re enforced, otherwise they are chains utilized by fascists to delay an appropriate counter-response.
The only thing that will fix fascism are general strikes large enough to damage the economy and make the capitalist/political class shit they’re pants, or violence. None of these psychopaths are going down without a fight.
And when this all done and over with, if anyone is still alive we will need to burn the Constitution, bill of right, and everything else. We need an entirely new government. Not some Capitalist monster either. We need to rapidly evolve if we’re going to survive.
Should, yes. Along with packing the court, expanding the House, instituting term limits, instituting nationwide ranked choice voting, eliminating ICE, and closing as many loopholes in executive power as they possibly can over the course of four years.
Of course, given the current DNC leadership’s track record, Project 2029 is probably just an index card with “rename ‘Alligator Alcatraz’ to ‘the Andrew M. Cuomo Federal Immigration Detention Facility’” and “Can We Officially Scowl At Donald Trump on the record?” right now. We need to primary everyone, at all levels, who doesn’t have an actionable plan and the will to carry it out.
I wasn’t aware that “denaturalizing” was an actual thing. Is this something with legal precedent, or just something Stephen Miller has made up.
Basically, can you afford a court case against the U.S. Government to prove you never made a mistake on paperwork, or someone translating for you didn’t make a mistake. Was anything missing from your report you gave 20 years ago when you didn’t speak English and they said include the following?
The thing that blows me away is why… It’s just money being blown from our taxes, to deport people who pay taxes… In a time period they claim we need higher birth numbers because capitalism demands growth and population growth makes that easier to support the social programs we have left
They don’t even have to do that now.
A few weeks ago SCOTUS ruled that defendents deported from the US illegally would have to separately file cases to overturn their denaturalisation.
So the govt doesn’t even need to get a court order to deport anymore.
While they could do it illegally, the case you have to fund yourself is a civil case against the government to decide whether your naturalization can be removed. Only once it is removed can they deport you as a criminal per the supreme courts ruling. Every person deported prior to the civil court case would be a “fiasco.”. Not saying it won’t happen, but the Supreme Court so far deems it illegal.
Unless I missed something, where did you see that ruling?
They’re doing it to punish people they perceive as enemies.
It’s all about power over people, so they can enrich themselves. They want slaves.
They want to deport brown people. To them that’s worth the cost.
There is legal precedent, but since 1968 it’s generally only been used on war criminals who lied to gain citizenship. They’re going to start expanding what they consider to be “fraud” to include things like spelling mistakes and clerical errors, which is total bullshit. More details are in the article.
The article states
The government can only do this in specific situations. It must prove someone “illegally procured” citizenship by not meeting the requirements, or that they lied or hid important facts during the citizenship process.
So, basically, it all goes back to that person’s naturalization process, and the notion that there was something wrong with it. But for this administration, “hiding important facts” might mean “didn’t tell us this tiny detail”, or “didn’t tell us they intended to vote for Liberals”…
I wouldn’t put it past them to doctor old documents even. If ICE agents are willing to call livestreaming a “violent act” then they can self-justify fudging a document to deport another “invader”.
The part which seems under reported is that for a long time USCIS basically had an amnesty policy for expired visas while the next one was pending. I’d wager a very large percentage of people in the US who went from student/work visa to marriage residency technically overstayed their visa while the paperwork was being processed. There is no law which allows or otherwise protects this “paperwork amnesty,” even though it has been long standing administrative policy. This administration could therefore go after anyone who was naturalized in this way. And for no reason other than they think this is red meat for their base who just really hates all immigrants for some reason.
I hate this thumbnail and smug shit eating smile. He definitely sun downing in that picture.
Here’s a booty picture of him instead.
