Let’s get over the idea that it’s a generation war and not a class war. Thinking all boomers are rich and own houses is like thinking all gen z are lazy. Neither is true by a long shot, but this is what the oligarchs and corporations want us to think about each other so we get distracted and don’t notice that they are the ones buying up all the housing so we can’t and they can rent to us at whatever price they want. Let’s stick together against them instead.
edit to add: And BTW don’t forget the next gens are growing up in an even worse situation and will face the effects of living under an autocracy and the effects of unaddressed climate change, while you get old and boomers are gone. Who do you think they’re going to blame? You, that’s who, while those in power laugh at all of us.
Something else: even boomers who own houses can still be poor and struggle to make ends meet.
“Oh, why don’t you just sell your house then!” 'cause then they and their family have no place to live. “But you could rent!” Yeah, that will work for a while and then they’ll be poor again.
Damn. Well said.
Let’s also stop using terms like Gen Z or Boomers altogether. They are often used by the media to make articles seem more interesting to certain target groups. But from a scientific point of view, they are about as meaningful as zodiac signs.
“Here’s why Cancers can’t keep their money together and why Scorpios nevertheless are constantly jealous of their standard of living.”
They were originally created by the advertisement agencies to know how to tweak their products and advertising. It was never supposed to be an all knowing way of separating people. It was just supposed to help sell products.
Adding to this that, between Boomer and Gen Z, there is a generation that equally hate both of them 😂
Preaching to the choir but I’m singing Amen right back at you.
Please stop falling for efforts to divide the working class.
Amy such efforts should immediately be viewed as suspicious. The divide is not old vs young, or white vs black, or even rich vs poor. It is the capital class versus the labor class.
Boomers grew up in a very tiny slice of global history where the working class actually got improvements in their material conditions, so it is hard for them to understand the struggles of people before or after… but they are being ground down by capitalism the same as the rest of us.
Your comrades at work may not understand the importance of unions or collective action, but they are still your comrades. Your grandmother may not realize that all of her extra productivity went to make billionaires richer, but she is still your comrade.
or even rich vs poor. It is the capital class versus the labor class
Just another fancy way of saying rich vs poor. The difference is the poors don’t realize they are in a war.
There are plenty of people that don’t consider themselves poor or who most people would not consider poor who are still in the labor class. If you produce value more than extract value from ownership then you are labor class.
There are plenty of people that don’t consider themselves poor
That doesn’t make them right. That just makes them less poor than those that are dirt poor.
If you’re not floating around on a yacht then you’re comparatively poor. They can afford things these so called rich people you talk about could never afford.
Just because theyre not “right” doesn’t mean this person doesn’t have a point; when you use the word poor, lots of people can’t or wont identify that way.
I’m in agreement with you generally, and I have made the same argument as you before. But people wont get this, they wont hear your argument because theyre too busy feeling like youre ridiculous for calling them poor. The sheer magnitude of wealth disparity is not well understood by your average joe.
The other commenter is offering more precise wording thats less likely to be understood wrong.
If I want to teach you to cook, but we can’t move on from whether its called a “spatula” or a “flipper”, nobody is learning anything.
Most poor people don’t consider themselves poor because it is considered a terrible thing to be poor.
All my coworkers voted R. It’s really, really hard to consider them allies in any sense.
It is genuinely difficult not to hate them for it. But you need to keep telling yourself that they’re victims to propaganda from media and their upbringing. It’s hard to overcome that.
There’s a quote from a Heinlein book where he talks about how Communists can only exist in places where there are real, not imagined, ills that are not being addressed, and I feel like something similar applies for Trumpists. Their lives have gone wrong somehow, likely driven by forces beyond their control, and they’ve been promised easy answers by a vile con game. I don’t appreciate that they got hoodwinked, but I can understand how it happened.
And men under 30 voted for Trump by 16 points[1]. This is NOT old vs. young.
isn’t it fucking weird? I’ve been so disassociated for weeks now, getting some things done but it’s very hard.
Thank you for saying this. One of my posts where I tried to express similar things got voted down to the extreme, lol.
The moment right after WWII was a very unique period of time. Virtually every other country had their manufacturing decimated and we were about the only ones left. Labor unions were strong, taxation was not so regressive (top rate in the 90s) as now, etc.
And the boomers were born into that environment. And they were huge in numbers, too. So they had outsized influence and were probably given more of a chance at the lower and middle class levels than many generations before or since (though new numbers show that maybe Gen Z and Millennials have surpassed everyone). Probably as a general rule. But also, during their youth, many of them agitated for making things better. So I just don’t understand why an entire generation (even though I lived in their shadow my entire life - believe me, Gen X are the OGs when it comes to resenting boomers - we resented a lot of them very much long before it became a mainstream media hit by pitting Gen Y against the boomers decades later) can be trashed like that, just en masse. It is rather absurd and is hardly a complete picture.
They also had a lot of struggles and not all financial, either. If someone makes blanket statements about how all of boomers had it better than everyone since, well, that’s rather silly, since I bet if you look at the typical experience of a Black boomer as contrasted with a typical Black person of later generations it might be a completely inverted situation. Same for LGBTQ. Same for women. If you know any boomer women, ask them about something simple like getting a credit card. Or being allowed entry into college.
My grandparents aren’t comrades. They’re dead.
its not the 40 hour work week thats the issue.
Its how much productivity is demanded in that 40 hours. and the compensation for it.
and theres a LOT more productivity demanded from workers today, than there was in 1950.
Because all the technologies that were supposed to make life easier… didnt. They just increased the amount of things we can/have to do in a day.
People working today are doing more labor, producing more effort per hour than 70 years ago, but are being paid less in purchasing power for it… and if thats not a recipe for violent upheaval i dont know what is.
Back before the clock was invented, agricultural workers had about 160 days of the year to themselves. (Admittedly, to do intensive chores.) Also, employers gave free breakfast and lunch, with a bit of beer. Workers might also do as low as 4 hours of work IIRC, depending on the day and season. Below is a video on the subject. Civilis also covers topics, such as the fall of the Roman republic…which feels awfully relevant, nowadays.
I love Historia Civilis. I wish he’d also discuss the Roman leaders that came after Gaius Julius Augustus. A lot of historians and books stop there after the fall of the Republic, but from what I understand a lot happened within the Roman empire since then. It would be nice to learn more about it all.
One of my absolute favorite subjects! Check out “The History of Rome” podcast by Mike Duncan (dont let the audio quality of the first few episodes dissuade you, it gets suddenly better very quickly). Mr Duncan goes deep on details and provides sources if you want to dig deeper. It’s a great listen that covers the mythical period all the way to the fall of the eastern empire.
The amount of time that corporations feel entitled to is ridiculous. I’ve quit my last two positions because these billion dollar companies feel that they own you for every second when you’re on the clock. It feels exploitative and gives you the sense that you’re just some beast of burden. We’re humans, not machines to push production to the maximum. But all the higher-ups see is bottom line pushers.
My last job at a call center was staffed in such a way that they were basically on the phone continuously for their entire shift with no downtime between calls. This meant anytime something happened to increase call volume all the metrics the bean counters cared about went to shit. Their solution was to tighten the screws and demand lower handle times and better adherence from their already burnt out staff and cracking down on anyone who wasn’t logged in when they were supposed to be. Meanwhile the supervisors were leaving to go run errands and shit whenever they felt like it. Turnover quickly got ridiculous.
It’s fun when it is extended beyond work hours, too. Email/IMs/texts/Teams/Slack/whateverelsethefuck from people round the clock and on the weekend. Calls when on vacation. People asking if you could cancel your vacation just before going on one planned months in advance because of some contrived milestone. Stuff like that.
Oh, and I’m Gen-X - this kind of thing has been around since I started work, but it does seem like it’s increasing as a “norm”. People doing performative shit in public, and now others assuming this is expected - like how many commits you are doing FOR FREE on Github, or fake internet points on Stack Overflow, as an example. I honestly feel sorry for people that fall for this, thinking it’s a way to break into a job, or that they must do this to maintain one.
Though I do think that Covid did a modicum of a reset on some of the grindset nonsense. Of course, I think all the really big tech companies colluded with one another to then start doing massive layoffs to make sure that everyone still knew who was calling the tune (even if it made no sense to cut staff). Lots of managers have a real xitter envy - they’d love to cut their company to the very bone and run the place like absolute tyrants like they see fElon doing. Thing is, it is obviously a stupid way to run a business - xitter is just a Nazi bar with questionable business fundamentals at this point. But it doesn’t stop useless copycat monkeys in the C-suite from thinking he’s great.
What, are not grateful that they trickle down a tiny bit of money from what is left after the shareholders and CEO take their hard earned cut? Just because you did all the work and earned all of the money? How gready can you be? I mean they graciously let you be sick 6 days a year, and let you frolic for another 10. Don’t you realize how much effort they had to put in worrying that the small smidgen of their enormous wealth that they had inherited and invested in your company was not earning them greater wealth at a rate that was grossly unhealthy for the company or the economy?
Two people had unprotected sex forcing my existence. I owe nobody anything let alone spending the majority of my unconsenting existence as a wage slave.
Wow, that kind of self-agency is sooo entitled! Just be a good little wage slave until the boomers die off. They’ve had a comfy life. Can’t let them lose any of that comfort now! /s
I’ve gotta say i admire Zoomers a lot. Im a 1990 millenial and most of my generation simply put their heads down and pushed through and tried to emulate their boomers parents while not living their boomer parents reality, destroying themselves in the process. It seems that almost collectively your generation has said FUCK THIS SHIT and made moves to end it.
Its really impressive.
I don’t know about that. I’m a 1990 millennial and the vast majority of ppl my age collectively said fuck giving the extra effort for no return. I remember reading in my 20s that millennials pretty much gave up on retirement and started traveling.
Yeah. Is pretty bleak
Literally the poorest condition house would cost 100% of 8 years of take-home pay of my engineer salary where I live. That’s before accounting for loan interest on 20% down payment (I have 5%) which would push it up to 18 full years of my labor.
A single-family house is simply not worth 15+ years of my life, and I’m actively looking into cheaper options.
I don’t know any millennials like that. You sure they aren’t Gen-X?
Re-title this article as “Lazy, Tired Workers Are Mad At Youthful Workers Like Lazy, Tired Workers 60 Years Ago Were Mad At Them 60 Years Ago”.
Another “Don’t mind the billionaires getting richer and fight each other for the scraps instead” article.
I was talking to a boomer here in Canada. When I asked him why he stayed in the same company for 30 years he said, hey they kept giving me promotions and increasing my salary from the first year. As well as having a work pension plan. Just with a bachelor’s and no beginning experience.
MFs be asking masters and years of experience from new grades.
Don’t forget their not giving raises either or that great of benefits either. Real stellar time
Among all my friends, there are two clear common denominators between those who rent and those who own houses. The ones renting have office jobs and live in the capital, while the ones who own houses live in smaller cities or the countryside and work in manual labor.
I’m not saying correlation is causation, but it’s an interesting observation - and so far, it applies to 100% of my friends.
Or have office jobs and commute a bit longer.
People say I’m crazy for commuting 1,5 hours (one way). But I get to go home to my own property. Especially now with hybrid working still being a thing, I only go to the office once or twice a week.
I must agree with the people saying you’re crazy for having that long commute. That’s over a month spent getting to and from work every year. Time is the most valuable asset in the entire world. By working we’re trading time for money but for the time spent commuting you’re not even getting paid. I would seriously consider trying to find an alternative solution to this.
If they go to the office twice a week with an hour and a half commute each way that’s six hours a week driving. So 52 weeks a year that’s 312 hours or 13 days. Still not great but my commute is about 30min one way. I work five days a week so five hours a week, which would still be about 10 2/3 days a year. They also said they only have to commute once OR twice a week so they still probably drive less then the 13 days a year.
I’m just saying, sounds like a good deal
I’m located in The Netherlands, the housing market here is fucked. An alternative solution would be to find something to rent closer to work, but I would pay 1,5 times as much in rent, for a small apartment in a neighborhood where I don’t want to live. Yes, I’m spending more time on my commute, but I also have more disposable income each month that I can save and invest. If all goes to plan, I can retire earlier and live mortgage free within 20 years. In essence, I’m trading a bit of time now, to have more spare time and a better financial position in the near future. I’m taking it.
ted to get the fuck out of here when she said: a lot of people wanted the lawnmower, but she doesn’t sell it to anyone (she mant she didn’t sell it to immigrants). And: “no offence to you, but your generation
do you drive, or take public transport? Americans will assume you drive, and then it is a pure waste of time. On the other hand, spending 3 hours on a train, one can sleep, work, watch a movie, read, whatever.
I drive, public transport in The Netherlands is horrible outside of the major cities. Even in the major cities it’s “meh” to be honest. The PR department of The Netherlands does a great job at portraying our country as some sort of engineering marvel / paradise. The truth is that mobility in The Netherlands is expensive and in case of public transport, it lacks proper connection to regions outside of the cities. The only reason why we “love” riding our bicycle around, is that it’s the only affordable mobility option.
Many people that cover longer distances, like myself, have a company leasing car. So it doesn’t hit my wallet as much.
I suspect you have much higher standards than Americans. Just curious, how much time/money would it cost for you to take public transport to work? (for Americans, something 70-80 miles away is literally an impossible commute without a car, except for a few exceptions along the NYC, Philadelphia, DC axis.
It would cost me about 75 euro’s (return) for a 4 hr commute (one way) with public transport to cover a distance of 150km (one way). This is a mixture of transportation modes, including bus and train.
Comparison with the car is quite difficult, but using a car cost calculator website, it says that for my car the average price per kilometer would be ~0,20 euro. So that would mean that the round trip would cost me roughly 60 euro’s by car. As for time, a one way commute to the office is about 1,5h to 2h by car, depending on traffic. So, twice as fast and 1/4th cheaper.
My company covers car expenses in the company leasing contract. All I have to pay is taxes to use the car privately, which in The Netherlands is quite high (compared to for example Belgium). So I pay 350 euro (net) a month to use the car privately. The mobility budget for the leasing car represents about 1000 euro gross a month. But of course if I were to take public transport, my company would reimburse that, but I would have to give up the car.
To be fair, the situation here in The Netherlands is not much different than you describe, outside the larger cities that is. Most people commuting to these cities from the smaller towns and villages are still heavily car dependent. Even within my own town, public transport is just a sham. If I were to take the bus to get groceries, I would have to wait 2 hours for the next bus that takes me back home. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
Let’s talk about suburbs. These generations left the city because they couldn’t afford it. Now suddenly living 5 mins from work is expected but then the an entry level job can’t afford it and it’s a generational difference? Can you afford to buy a house within 45 mins to your work? Hell ya where I live but you don’t have immediate access to all city amenities.
Well that should be easy to fix. Just have a world war with a general draft and all for about 5 years. Then another one soon after in an arbitrary place. That sort of thing really brings people together, and also kills many of them, all contributing to a healthy housing market!
don’t say that or somebody might take it serious
for anyone reading this: war always does more harm than good, and it’s always the poor people (i ain’t no fortunate son) who bleed.
class war, on the other hand …
Ever wonder how “work ethic” became a trait that defines the quality of an individual? You can probably guess. Religion. Which of course needed people to work hard so they could donate more money to them.
My dad worked two full time jobs for a while to help the family get ahead while we were little. I think spending time with his young children would have been time better spent for everyone. He did stop when we got to school age. And he did spend a lot of time with us. Was a scout master, tball coach, all that. So I know he probably would have rather been with us than working that extra job. But from a young age it was drilled into him that work came first.
Now with younger people less into religion. We see more and more who realize that working hard for someone else doesn’t need to be a defining characterist of a person’s quality.
I think they see the boomers doing nothing, but having everything, and the dream of having a house, two cars, and 2.5 kids was not something they were ever told they could have. They grew up with depressed millennials close enough in age to still be friends, who tell them “I’m fucked, so you don’t have a chance in hell!” And they’re right. With prices going up and wages stagnant or going down, they don’t ever get to save anything. And why should they? At the rate houses are climbing, that down payment keeps running away from them. And still, the only thing they will ever be able to pay for is a dump in a shitty part of town.
Until we bring back hope for the future, we will keep seeing people give fewer fucks.
Maybe his motivation wasn’t so much “work ethic” as it was “taking responsibility to care for one’s family”, since he did stop the extra job when he could and spent time with you. He sounds like a great dad!
I mean part of it was good financial sense. Money saved early has longer to grow. But I don’t think they “needed” the money that bad. Two full time jobs is nuts. And there were plenty more instances where he clearly communicated that work ethic was equal to a persons value. But yeah, he was a good Dad.
Watch out the propaganda of government and ruling class trying to divide the public and turn people against each others. Boomers are idiots but owning a house is peanuts compared to billionares expenses or the money being spent on military weapons.
Demand for human labor is declining, and as a result, wages are declining.
Which is precisely why wages shouldn’t be decided through market mechanisms
Or maybe we get rid of the “wages = living” bit.
We could all negotiate for the full value of our labor a lot better if we didn’t have a noose around our neck forcing us to work.
I have nothing in principle against people earning a living through dignified, honest, collective labor, with the basics being guaranteed such as housing, healthcare, education, nutrition, energy and a few others.
But that’s socialism!
Yes, I’m what you would call a communist. Or a tankie, depending on your mood!
Filthy communist wanting healthcare, security, and better society. Think about the billionaires’ children, how will they become neop babies?
Not all of us were beneficiaries of the largess. Most black people and a lot of single mothers, anyone who wasn’t able to finish college or secure a union job … we were all left out of that. It gets real tiring being accused of the ills of a small demographic when we are down here suffering right along with you. AND being blamed for it.
I despise most of the boomers
I bought a lawnmower from someone online and went to pick it up. The lady was a turbo hoarder in her late 60’s she was smoking and smelled like a brewery. Her home was DISGUSTING. And i mean rat shit on the countertop. The only reason i was in her house was because there was so much shit around her house that the only way into her backyard was through the house. If you haven’t seen it, you can not understand how bizzare it was to carry a lawnmower through a hoarder house, when she had technically a big yard around.
I just wanted to get the fuck out of here when she said: a lot of people wanted the lawnmower, but she doesn’t sell it to anyone (she mant she didn’t sell it to immigrants). And: “no offence to you, but your generation is absolutely useless.” It was like some weird snl sketch
I’m going to guess that person’s TV has a Fox News logo burned into the bottom corner.
No this was peak euro trash
I probably would have just not bought that specific lawnmower and kept using my shitty one.
Part of me wanted to leave it in the “living room” and say: fuck this shit. Problem was that it was a bar mower, and i really needed it and they are usually pricey as hell and she basically gave it away for free. The other thing was that it was so disgusting that i felt like i HAVE to get something out of it.
Wait I thought boomers were all rich and lived in nice houses?
This was probably a nice house before she ruined it.
