- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- technology@beehaw.org
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Tech is always fallible.
Look at that taxpayer money protecting all that private property of an oligarchy who is shitting on the working folk.
Cute little regime they got going for themselves
Something that isn’t reported enough is that Elon borrowed heavily against his ownership of Tesla to buy Twitter. It is thought that at around $100 a share he will be margin called which will mean that Elon will have to pay the loan back in cash immediately which will bankrupt him completely and enact the rage of his handlers the Saudis and Putin as they are the ones who drummed up support for the deal in the first place by holding a majority of the non-institutional debt.
Sorry to be that guy but can you give any sources for this? I would love this to be true and want to tell my friends but yeah a source would be nice…
I want to believe…
Russia does not give a single fuck about their assets getting burned. It happens all the time. It’s part of their playbook to make their assets more and more bold.
They got more than their moneys worth in the form of the US crashing and burning like it is now.
This sounds really interesting but I lack the necessary economics background to understand it. Instead of having to research for potentially hours, do you mind please dumbing it down a little for me? The parts I don’t understand are “borrow against an ownership”, “holding non-institutional debt”. You don’t have to of course
The same way your mortgage is backed up by your house. If you default on your mortgage, the bank can take your house in foreclosure.
Rather than sell shares to raise the money, Musk has backed his borrowing with Tesla shares. Basically, if he doesn’t pay back the loan, the banks get the shares. Unlike houses, shares can change value quite quickly. If the value of the loan exceeds the value of the shares, then the banks start to get VERY nervous. They will call in the loans to get what they can, before things get worse. This could crash the share price further, since they will want to offload the shares as soon as possible.
Musk is extremely rich. However, like most extremely rick people, his money is tied up in shares. If Tesla falls fast enough, he could end up owing more than he has in assets. As soon as his creditors pull the plug, he becomes bankrupt.
Yes please
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I really doubt that somebody will margin call one of the most powerful men in the world who is in control of the president of the United States.
That hinges entirely on whomever holds the loan.
If it was one person, then no way. But it’s not just 1 person, it’s more than 100.
There are investment groups in that list, and ties to the Saudis and Russians.
The investment groups might be legally required to margin call if the stock price falls too far, but none of them will hold the full loan.
Normally I would agree with you but with how hard the current US administration is pushing Tesla sales I think they are legitimately concerned / there is an actual chance this could happen: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/elon-musk/trump-musk-tesla-white-house-showroom-buys-car-rcna195905
You don’t buy a Tesla? Believe it or not, straight to jail. No trial no nothing.
Jail? Black van, troyka, firing squad.
I think Musk is a red herring for the Trump administration to divert attention away from Trump. Keep the eye on the ball. If there was no Trump Elon wouldn’t have this power.
I don’t agree.
These fascists are all following the political ideology and strategies laid out by Curtis Yarvin under the pseudonym Mencius Moldbug. He’s been in the orbit of people like Peter Thiel for 10+ years and has been very influential among the tech oligarch crowd.
His vision centers around creating a tech-oriented monarchy for America. At the top would be the president who would operate more like the Chairman of the Board in a corporate structure. Rather than governing on a day-to-day basis, this President/King would appoint a CEO to oversee the actual management of government. That’s the role Musk has taken on.
Trump appoints Musk to do the actual running of the country to accomplish what Trump wants accomplished while letting Trump seem above the fray (at least that’s the intention, Trump is too incompetent to actually stay above the fray). Musk isn’t a red herring. He’s not diverting from anything. He’s just the guy doing the job so Trump can go golf all day.
This is it! I think the problem the are facing is musk thought he was way more popular than he was( started believing his twitter bots)
I do agree that he is incredibly detached from reality and probably overestimates his support, but I don’t think that’s a factor in what he’s doing to destroy/fleece the government. I think he overestimated the competency of himself and the kids he’s having do all the coding work.
No corporation has ever been anything other than a dictatorship. They are the least democratic of institutions. Why do people think any differently?
Yo that’s the exact line of reasoning I used to get my dad to be more union friendly. I think it’s pretty effective.
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The republicans have been obsessed with privatizing the world for ages
I think he’s an easy target, and whether you think he’s culpable or not, he’s very visible, and taking him down in every possible way is a good thing.
Kind of, but not really. It’s more like Musk is doing Trump’s dirty work for him so that when the shit hits the fan, he gets the blame instead of Trump.
I think we’re saying rhe same thing. Musk will be the fall guy for Trumps incompetence.
It’s worse than that. Trump is a figure head, Elon is ceo and Peter Theil and his ghouls are board of trustees. Butterfly revolution, Curtis yarvin. State as a company.
So… what about SpaceX?
I’d sabotage their satellites but they are really hard to get to
Networking is tough but not impossible, signals can be jammed, as long as it’s not reliable it’s as good as useless
Sounds nearly impossible. Not sure about satelites, but ground stations use phased antenna array, which makes filtering out jammer easy.
It’s way harder to find a spaceX dealership to torch
Also hard to torch something that’s already burst into a million pieces. HEY-YO!
There is a small, but not completely minute, chance that SpaceX employees may be on this.
These people have a brain, and are only in the company to gain experience. Who knows, maybe one or two engines may get damaged in the process.
Duuuude. The enslaved Jews were pissing on the V2 avionics causing the missiles to crash. You could be right. Fuck Elon.
Actually resistance in concentration camps is an untold saga. The most famous example is the inverse “B” in “Arbeit Macht Frei”, but there where more examples, and less subtle too, like full blown antifascist banners in barracks, even sabotage and espionage in the gas chambers. Never give up!
and a Boston man was arrested for slapping stickers of Musk making a Nazi-like salute on Tesla vehicles
Better have him taken out back and shot, right? 🙄
I bet it is this sticker, lol
I think it was this one which also got banned from Reddit:
Fuck Reddit.
Oh, I like that one! Direct and to the point.
Hey, since when is it bad to want to kill Nazis? Last I heard that was generally encouraged. It’s the whole moral foundation that the first person shooter genre was based on.
Yeah wtf I love playing games where you get to kill nazis. Wolfenstien
I find Wolfenstein 1 and 2 to be extremely therapeutic.
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The only way to make Nazis afraid again is to warn them, in their own language: violence.
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Not when it comes to the fash.
They do not get even the barest semblance of sympathy, mercy, or benefit of the doubt. Ever.
Nobody’s saying otherwise.
Murder sucks, but sometimes letting them continue is worse. If they remove other options for justice then justice must be served in whatever form is left.
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(removed — sorry this thread is too fedposty for my liking)
To a lot people, the analogy is that the dangerous criminal with a gun has already broken in and is aiming the gun at them, they’re in survival mode, and are not looking for non-violent solutions. I get your perspective, just trying to show you why so many are saying to “shoot the Nazis”.
There’s always more options. However, there needs to be a point where you don’t let them keep going. Sure, we could have continued to negotiate with Hitler instead of going to war. At some point you have to accept that the thing you’ve been trying to avoid is the best option left.
I think for a lot of people, they’d normally be right there with you, and as you mentioned with self defense, the more people are pushed into survival-mode against someone hell-bent on destroying you, it starts to feel like destroying Nazis is the moral thing to do. Are you familiar with the Paradox of Tolerance? If you tolerate intolerance, it will take over society, so one could argue you must never tolerate intolerance. With Nazis being the real world embodiment of this paradox, extending that reasoning, the morally responsible thing to do is to destroy Nazis any time and place they spring up.
You say “destroy” but you mean murder. That’s not okay. I know the Paradox of Tolerance, and it doesn’t say to jump to straight-up murder. That should never be the first thought, it should be the worst case scenario.
No offense, but they would murder you without a second thought, without remorse, and without any shame whatsoever. They would be banking on getting a pardon for it, too. It happened to the Jan 6 traitors, it happened to the Nisour Square Massacre bastards, Ross Ulbricht got a pardon even though he literally tried to hire a hitman to kill two federal agents (those same feds were also thieves and corrupt and got busted for their crap). This shit isn’t cool, but they treat it like it is.
The whole cartoon hero/villain dynamic of ‘I am not like you, I will not do that’ should only happen AFTER they are thoroughly defeated and no longer capable of harming you, then you can put them up on trial and show them no mercy in the court room.
The situation with the Gaza genocide and the extreme corruption at higher levels completely altered my view of the death penalty. I used to be 100% against the death penalty, but now I am only against it for common criminals and common crimes. People like Ted Cruz and the BTK killer (a mass shooter and serial killer respectively) should rot in prison for the rest of their lives, but war criminals like Netenyahu and IDF foot soldiers who commit war crimes need to be executed with all haste and minimal appeals. Ditto for ‘businessmen’ like Musk and Zuckerberg who thrive on fucking people’s lives over. This goes for high level politicians like Trump and Duterte (who was recently arrested).
Simply put, let the punishment match the scale of the crime. Some armed robber should not receive a harsher sentence for robbing and killing a shop owner than a multinational corporate CEO whose decisions involved crashing entirely economies just so he can spite someone online.
I think you missed the point. I mean Justifiable homicide. That’s exactly how grave the threat here is, and not just for minorities.
e: for the record, i am the most non-violent person i know. I won’t kill a fly, even flies deserve to live. I have no such feelings towards Nazis
😂MaNDA
Ironic that he referenced Carnegie. Carnegie and Rockefeller were so terrified of the public that Rockefeller refused to leave his mansion for years at a time, and Carnegie fled to England, where he publicly supported Unions, but privately told Frick to squash the strikers. That blew up in his face, and he had to capitulate to all the demands the workers had.
There was such a real feeling for revolution in those days before fascism came to be and before WW1 had governments pass laws to utterly crush so many leftist movements while boosting the first generation of fascists.
If those guys are supposed to be in uniform - no two are dressed the same. One guy didn’t tie his shoes, another’s jacket doesn’t fit. It is very sloppy and unprofessional looking.
I burst out laughing at “heavy police presence”, those guys look heavy alright.
I can’t even get passed how gross it is to see this many cops standing in front of a business where there is no visible evidence of violent activity where people might be harmed. It just looks like a statement saying this is our priority - corporate welfare for the Uber rich and worst possible human specimens at the cost of taxpayer dollars. It’s so gross I can’t even work my way to the nuances of how these slobs are dressed.
There’s a reason people say officers are class traitors. Policing has never been about protecting the public; It has always been about suppressing the masses and protecting the elite.
It’s what policing is for. It’s never been about protecting people but businesses
JFC, since at least that demented shit Reagan, corporate welfare for the Uber rich and suppression of workers rights have been American domestic policy. And since the early 20th century it’s been a goal of the GOP. Arguably, corporate welfare and worker suppression have been founding principles of the US.
Considering slavery is legal under the original constitution I would say “worker suppression” is DEFINITELY a founding principle of the US.
Kind of what I meant.
Fits in perfectly with the Tesla brand then, doesn’t it.
Idk how many truth there is to this, but I saw someone else mention that they are off-duty and hired by Tesla to just stand there in uniform
It’s more likely to be out of work security guards in their police cosplay.
I think that’s an overkill approach to convince us to not buy a Tesla.
It’s no longer about convincing people to stop buying a Tesla, it is now about destruction.Everyone knew this is where it would lead.
We shouldn’t make people scared for owning a Tesla, just embarrassed.
i’m gonna lean on the side of “fuck that shit” on this one. buying a tesla is a choice. maga are terrorizing people for things they didn’t choose like skin color, gender, sexual orientation, etc, and that list will only get longer
fuck tesla, and fuck tesla buyers. unlike their holy godman idol musk, i value empathy. but not for people who pridefully show none of it themselves
A lot of regular Tesla owners genuinely didn’t know a ton about the company and until the last few years Musk wasn’t quite so openly a Nazi.
I have zero sympathy for Cybertruck owners but I am going to wait to reserve judgement on average Tesla owners until I have proof it was bought recently and that they are okay with Musk as he is.
The reality is some people can’t just up and trade in the car as easily as they might want to, even if they hate Musk and all he stands for now.
I don’t disagree with what you’re saying, except that we should be doing everything possible to drive down their value. The less value they have the less Tesla is worth. Ideally people sell their Teslas used, driving the used cost down, making anyone looking to buy one still consider that instead of giving money to the company. We can have people who still support Tesla not giving money to them potentially.
People with ordinary Teslas might have bought them before Musk was a total ass. And apart from some dumb ideas like steering yokes and poor emergency releases and build quality they’re not that bad.
The Cybertruck is objectively bad and deserves ridicule regardless of what Lengthy Nutria does.
people bought them for the attention it brings, nothing more.
Musk was always a total ass. Agree maybe ppl were unaware until recently though
Model Y Juniper just started shipping this month. Its a glaring sign that says they bought it after everything Musk did.
I wasn’t aware because I don’t follow Tesla but that’s really useful info because you’re damn right.
I have a Tesla (2017). Had no idea who this guy was at the time, I just liked the idea of an electric vehicle, and buying into a future without ICE. Cars been great, company not so much.
Musk can go to hell though that’s for sure
fair enough. i still say fuck’em. there are many more people much more deserving of my sympathy than fucking tesla owners
For many of us we’ve had our vehicles for a long time before Elon went dipshit crazy. For some it’s because EVs were essentially dogshit before the Model 3 was introduced. Either short range grocery getters or expensive luxury. Even now most “electrified” vehicles everyone advertises are hybrids, not EVs.
I got my Model 3 near the end of 2018. Elon wasn’t posting far right and Nazi shit at that time. He was sort of controversial, but that was about it.
Stop. He was an asshole then and you just chose to ignore it. Under his shitty leadership Tesla has always been awful. Delays, QA issues, lies, under-delivery and over-promises have been the MO since he’s had a hand in the company but the lame tech crowd wanted EVs/self-driving cars so bad they ignored it.
You don’t get a pass on buying a Tesla because you did so in 2018. He was a piece of shit then manipulating stock prices and posting dumb shit on Twitter.
In any sort of political adjacent topic there’s always a comment from someone that seems to assume that they’re inherently better than everyone else for no actual reason and that everyone else cares about their opinion of others. From your response here to a random person on the internet you know absolutely nothing about, I think it’s safe to assume you have a single digit number of people that tolerate you on a daily basis.
I hope you have the day you deserve, I know I will.
That’s why I don’t have ill will for people for having a non cybertruck Tesla unless you can tell it’s new. But if you don’t have an anti elon sticker I’m starting to side eye them
My rich oral surgeon friend bought a Tesla really early on way before Elon showed us who he really was. My friend has a sticker on his Tesla S that says “I bought this before we knew he was crazy”.
But if you don’t have an anti elon sticker I’m starting to side eye them
I don’t have a sticker, only because I don’t like stickers or badging on my vehicles at all. My Model 3 was early enough that they didn’t even have the Dual Motor badging for them in stock. They brought the badging to me at some point about a year later when the Rangers came to a tire rotation in my yard, there wasn’t even have a full Service Center here yet. I didn’t have them actually install the badging, it’s still in my glovebox. It’s as low key as I can make the damned thing.
But that’s a major contributing factor to my looking at alternative options now instead of when it’s fully paid off in September. The swastikar is becoming a target, and I don’t want to have to deal with shit just because Elon’s a Nazi. Got a test drive setup next week for a Polestar 3, and if I fits and I likes, going to be looking at that probably, especially with their added discounts and bonus for leasing and currently owning a Tesla. Most other manufacturer vehicles I’d consider are at least 1-2 years away still, so a 27 month lease is just about perfect for filling that gap, and making a decision then. Would still be less than I’m paying for my Model 3 with those discounts.
Yeah, I’m sure a lot of people are in that unfortunate situation. I can’t imagine the trade in value is improved. Sorry you’re getting shit for buying a vehicle that was supposed to be less harmful to the environment, I guess the lesson is avoid musk products.
Model 3 is still expensive luxury
You can get them under $20,000 at 2 years old.
The model 3 was designed and marketed to be an affordable EV, and is still one of the cheaper options on the market.
Do you think any new vehicle is a luxury item?
Base price is 42k tho what are you talking about. That’s like 3 budget cars. No wonder Americans can’t handle egg prices when your finance education functions based on marketing trajectories 🙄
If you told a Rolls-Royce owner that you owned a luxury car, and then said it was a Model 3, they’d laugh at you.
Everything above x price is a luxury item and that’s a perfectly correct statement. Luxury doesn’t mean the most expensive option.
Not like most of the luxury EV market at $80k+ starting.
Byd goes brrr
Innocents get hurt in war.
American, I see.
There’s tesla buyers who dont even know who musk is or what he does/owns. I dont know who owns BMW, Ford, Volkswagen etc. People could easily decide to buy a tesla and not know.
And using hate to fight hate isn’t always the best, these maga fucks will just use it as fuel for their regime, embarassing them is a much better way, stickers etc sure, but you shouldnt be physically violent to the person.
There’s tesla buyers who dont even know who musk is or what he does/owns.
Citation??
Or, you just guessing based on the sentence that follows… 🤔
I’d bet significant money that 99.999% of rational car-buying adults know the relationship Musk/Tesla. 🤷♂️
The internet isn’t real life.
How surprised were you at the last few US elections? Tells you everything you need to know about how uninformed the majority is.
Yeah. You know the saying “living under a rock”? The people in this thread have never even looked under the rock.
Prove there isnt. Just because we sit on the internet well connected, doesnt mean the average joe is. As I was saying about not knowing who owns other automotive companies, can you name them all? Can you tell me all their political views? It’s not too hard to imagine someone buying a tesla without researching the company, come on.
And anyone who does or did know about musk owning them before, could have bought the car before he became a prolific nazi. You cant be serious if you think every tesla owner did deep research into elon musk. Thats so out of touch.
“There’s tesla buyers who dont even know who musk is or what he does”
I’m going to have to call bs on that.
Preordered 2016, bought in 2018 well before he was out of the Nazi closet.
Had service done in 2022, this is how my service advisor signed his fucking email.
It’s embarassing.
Seems unlikely when exposed to communities like this online, seems very likely when you talk to people who dont go online much.
The man is being covered on literally every news source, print, radio, television, and internet
He is (or was) the richest man in the world. You’d have to be living under a rock to not know who he is
I think the fact that GOPers get elected even by the people the GOPers are actively screwing shows that under-rock housing is very common.
You’d be surprised then. Bill Gates was the richest man and not everyone knew him either. Warren Buffett was too and even less knew him.
It’s also an extreme luxury item - no one needs to buy one.
You can get a two year old Model 3 under $20,000.
Which is a very reasonable price for a family car in 2025.
Lmao you’re just moving the goal post. You can get a 3 two year old Honda odysseys for 20k.
Cheapest 2023 Honda Odyssey available within 500 miles of me on Autotrader:
Cheapest 2023 Tesla Model 3 available within 500 miles of me on Autotrader.
Stay out of conversations when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
They’re utterly convinced 3x the cheapest vehicle you can buy is a luxury item.
Just think where you’d end up if you applied that logic to other products, everything you buy would be a luxury item.
They’re terminally stupid.
Lmao dudes bringing local anecdotes as facts. Bye 👋
A 500 mile radius is local?
Tesla is a premium product at best, they absolutely aren’t a luxury item. The S and X possibly, but most of the vehicles they sell aren’t particularly expensive.
It starts at 42,000 as base model - it absolutely is a luxury product.
First of all, $42,000 is very average for a basic family car nowadays.
Second of all, with incentives and tax credits, that’s more like $30,000-$35,000 depending where you live.
Third of all, owning an EV is considerably cheaper than owning a dino-burner. No oil changes. No fluid changes. You charge at home for an order of magnitude cheaper than gas (unless you buy one of those GM cinderblock Hummers or F150s something equally
stupidAmerican). A $42,000 car with no scheduled maintenance, fuel costs, or mechanical repairs is surprisingly affordable compared to a dino-burner at the same sticker price.Fourth of all, even at only two years old, you can pretty easily and regularly find Model 3s for sale at 50% or more depreciation from new. Add in the tax credit for used EVs and a 2 year old family sedan for $17,500 with no gas or oil changes to ever buy starts to become a pretty good deal.
Fifth of all, I cannot stress enough how completely unwilling most people are to completely reverse direction on a $xx,xxx financial commitment because it suddenly becomes a fad among internet nerds to get pissed off about it. If you people would step outside yourselves for five goddamn seconds and look at what you’re doing, I would be so happy.
Elon blows goats. Fuck up his goat farm. Don’t fuck over regular people just living their lives.
Such a great deal you replied to me trice?
42 thousand for a brand new vehicle, and you think that’s a luxury item?
Bear in mind, the idea of an electric vehicle is you pay more up front, and less in running costs.
Thats 3 budget vehicles, no? Any other product that’s costs 3x of a budget version price is a luxury product.
It’s also less than half the price of a 7 series BMW, which is a vehicle most people would consider a “luxury” vehicle.
What if I told you not everyone buying the car did so with daddy musk on the mind?
I don’t care. It’s not like its a nececity for people to own a swasticar.
Okay. Sell your car right now and buy another one. Prove its not a big deal.
I don’t have a car.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯_(ツ)_/¯
It’s still supporting a complete wanker regardless of what you had in mind.
I dont think you realize how many wankers there are that go undetected because they know how to shut the hell up. Moreover, I dont think you realize how buying a car works and how little selling the car would alleviate the problem.
I am aware if how many complete wankers there are out there that go unnoticed. You can’t help supporting them since they’re good at hiding their BS.
But the difference is that Elon is a known wanker therefore you can avoid supporting him but not buying into his shit. It’s not like he’s selling something you can’t get elsewhere.
No, the difference is that people that had already been Tesla owners are likely not paying Tesla directly. Tesla got paid when they signed the documents.
Owners are paying the financial institution that fronted the money for the purchase.
Tormenting current owners does nothing but drive another wedge in society. Disuading future buyers, and offering a comparable alternative is the best you can do to intervene.
You wanna make a difference? Start pumping out infographs and stop cheering on vandalism that only gives the F-elons ammo.
The owners are still supporting Tesla regardless of if their money is going to them directly or not. Money wouldn’t be going to Tesla if it weren’t for people buying them. It’s not just the money though, having more Tesla’s on the road drives attention to them. Makes them more desirable because of the “Well everyone is getting one” effect. That sort of thing.
There’s more than just money when it comes to supporting something.
Fuck the Tesla owners feelings. Make that shit as radioactive as possible so no one wants anything to do with Teslas. If people get upset over it then oh well.
I’m pretty sure these protests are dissuading potential buyers though. If people are willing to kick up this much of a stink then surely there’s something wrong. A protest is how you really get the message out because you can’t really ignore something like what’s been going on. It’s right in your face.
The only people that aren’t going to be dissuaded are people that wouldn’t be dissuaded anyway (A lost cause if you will) protest or a shitty Infograph that can easily be ignored or glossed over.
I like em scared. We don’t shun enough.
Yeah just like thousands of civil servants are “embarrased” of losing their jobs. Just like judges are “embarrased” that the executive branch is ignoring their rulings. Just like millions of Ukrainians are “embarrased” of losing their home. Get over your fucking self… we are at war.
*swasticar
Nah, I got one and I support this. (geting rid of mine)
Ah yes. There is no loss in Tesla ownership though, because now someone else will own it.
Except I wouldn’t own it. Shitty car in the first place, at least for the price.
I saw my first tesla a few weeks ago. I was walking in a target parking lot, and it passed by me to get to the other end of the parking lot, which is a strip mall.
I felt it was my civic duty to go laugh at what I THOUGHT was going to be a 50 year old white guy with a red hat. I was going to go walk up to him, point, and laugh. Calling him a pussy free loser for driving that car.
I was not prepared for what happened next. I see the car circling around, like it can’t find a spot, even though 90% of the strip mall was empty. Finally, he pulls up right next to the spot I was standing near. I was like “ooooooh, here we go!”
Door opens on the passenger, and 3 little Asian kids get out. Followed by an Asian woman in her 30s. Then the driver side opens. And a blind Asian man gets out.
Now what the fuck am I supposed to do??? I’m still trying to figure out if/how he was driving. I’m not saying being blind is a coverall for shitty behavior like driving a tesla…but I just couldn’t bring myself to call a blind guy a pussy free loser in front of his wife and kids.
NONE of it makes sense. And I feel dumber for having experienced my first tesla.
Seriously though, does ANYONE have any context for how a blind man with seeing stick can drive a car? It’s been driving me crazy, because I know what I saw…I just can’t explain what I saw.
Uh, OK.
NOt entirely blind so a stick helps with curbs and stuff, similar to how there are people who can walk, technically, but benefit from a mobility device.
No one took away his license when they should have, and full self driving helps him appear to function
It’s almost as if regular people buy cars that fit their lifestyle and not their politics or something.
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Isn’t driving around in one of those poorly-made death trap vehicles enough then?..
…Nah, probably not.
