Windows does stupid things with boot because it’s apparently alone in the world.
Like this NTFS lock up thing because it’s not really shutting down anymore but going into hibernate.
I had to change that setting but other than that dual boot works. Just realized that’s still win 10 on this machine. When that runs out time for fresh Linux only install.
Microsoft’s boot killing shenanigans convinced me to just scrub the taint of 11 off this time.
Put Windows in a virtual machine where it belongs!
Now that Windows isn’t being updated anymore (unless you enroll for extended security updates), can this still happen?
Only evil if you use one disk. :)
I’d had a dedicated windows drive for a little while… Maybe a bug and not malice, but the forced Windows 8 -> 10 upgrade deleted everything on my second drive that windows wasn’t installed on
The Windows installer partition manager also does not ask for confirmation before formatting a drive. That was a costly misclick
tbh if you notice it early, it probably only deleted th partition table entry at that point
I had two disks and windows still fucked my secure boot keys somehow in a way that I wasn’t able to fix so I had to reinstall the linux side. I turned secure boot off afterwards so should be fine now but it was a thing that happened.
I needed to know this about 5 years ago, when I lost a partition on my SSD because of a poorly done dual boot.
Been dualbooting for years, no problem thus far.
“Linux supported hardware” is an outdated phrase only used in windows propaganda today.
For desktop? Probably. For laptop, linux support can be awful, because manufacturers keep introducing hardware that don’t support standard drivers. Webcam? How about an IPU6 that needs kernel modules just to be detected and then special calibration files just so the image is not a stripey corrupted mess… How about no on-board sound because screw you I guess. How about a non standard USB controller so that you cannot even communicate over your USB ethernet dongle when the wifi is once again some special sauce non standard shit…
These are Dell and Lenovo Yoga machines at the University I work at. Some are absolute garbage where the USB is always powered and will drain the battery when the computer is turned off and no BIOS setting will disable this.
We are now looking into Tuxedo and Framework…
PS.: even windows has issues with these, where you have no touchpad and no USB anything (mouse, keyboard) until you somehow install a driver…
Yeah laptop hardware is garbage to deal with
Absolutely not.
Signed, owner of half-supported hardware.
Out of curiosity what hardware are you using that’s not supported?
I’ll be honest, A lot more of it works than I expected. Linux runs and is quite stable.
Keyboard Backlighting? Had to write some Python. Windows driver manages this, proprietary. I still can’t get backlight to work in bluetooth mode.
Trackpad Palm Rejection? Had to write a service. Windows driver manages this, proprietary.
Function keys on the keyboard in wired mode? Not supported, no work-around that I can find. I have to remove the keyboard and put it into bluetooth mode. Windows driver.
ohh shit, now that this reminded me to look, someone’s done something about it
https://github.com/zakstam/zenbook-duo-linux
Now I just need to figure out how to wedge that into nixos
Printers 🤣
I supported Hp Web Jet Admin on a slew of print servers for a large healthcare org after it got dropped in my lap from a round of layoffs. I’ll never own a printer again. Granted I never print anymore but I would rather drive to office depot a thousand times than to bring that evil back into this house
my brother laser was easier to set up in linux . windows needed a big ass download , linux just printed.
In my experience, the only OS where printers won’t have drivers is Windows.
But I don’t deal often with dark demoniac systems, so there are probably lots of niche hellish devices that I don’t know the details.
BS, I have gotten HP printers to work on Linux with no problems.
My Epson inkjet is a paperweight without w*ndows
Epson seems to supply Linux drivers according to their website and some Linux users when I searched around
Yeah, there’s some drivers but I never could get it quite work.
I was able to get mine working by setting it up as a network printer via windows and then just accessing it like that through Linux. But yeah, if I ever change wifi ssids I would need to factory reset it go back into windows and configure it again. (ET2400)
Edit to be clear the windows instance is only needed for setup, it can be shut down or removed entirely after setup
If I were already using Linux when I bought a printer like that, it would be returned immediately lmao
I also had a windows server for that for a little bit, but dumped it in the end. Realistically only my wife is using it, and she is still stuck with windows on her Thinkpad
How old is it? Almost all relatively recent printers should support driverless network printing by now.
Maybe 5 years old, haven’t tested in a while but it’s USB only with no network connectivity
They work better on Linux ,more prints than on windows ,same Cartwright. Installing was plug play (Office jet 6950)
Certain fingerprint readers and touchscreens
ex. Goodix
It’s not the fault of Linux, it’s the hardware manufacturers. Still, you need to consider it before buying the device
Lenovo thinkbook 16 G7 iml
Yes it’s a POS. It wasn’t my choice. Work laptop.
Broadcom hardware (WiFi cards an webcams in particular). Plus there are quirks with some proprietary driver version not building against some kernel version…
With unsupported hardware and closed drivers you are always on the lookout for some breakage.
And it’s not a Linux problem nor a complaint on distro maintainers. It’s manufacturers that are shit.
Audio gear.
HP Reverb G2 for me. Still waiting on Monado to get it fully working but no such luck yet. Hugely appreciative to the dev team for all of their amazing work, of course.
I’ve got a SpaceMouse Pro that, although useable with Blender, I haven’t been able to get it working as well as it did on windows, but I think that’s the only device I had any trouble with so far.
Peripheral devices, mostly. I have some half-supported, like Logitech mouse (G-shift doesn’t work), and for some I rely on open-source devs (like Corsair keyboard for certain keys/modes/connectivity fix). Sure, you can say just buy compatible devices, but it’s not always viable to replace everything you owned before moving to Linux.
I’ve got some LianLi case fans that aren’t supported by anything Linux that I’ve been able to find. I run a barebones VM just to control their features.
What case are you using? I’ve got a LianLi Lancool 216. It’s a little loud but it runs just fine for me.
Off the top of my head, my case is a LianLi O11, but I was talking about my case fans, which are… Oh lord, their naming is so obnoxious, the… TM LCDs I think?
lconnect just isn’t linux friendly, which is kinda surprising. I’ve got the 8.8 universal screen, which I could just toggle into a second display and get all the system data that way when running under linux.
Oh yeah I gave up trying to run LConnect on linux a while ago. I then looked into alternative tools people have made, of which there are a few and they seem great, but none of which (when I looked last) support my specific fan models. So my current solution is Windows 11 in a barebones VM that autostarts. It literally just runs Lconnect and nothing else, and the only things passed through to it are the USB controls for the fans. It has allowed me to at least control the colours, and screens, though not fan profiles or stats.
What Linux kernel are you running which isn’t supporting your hardware?
My case: I have an nvidia GTX 980. It’s old but it’s what I have.
Nvidia dropped its support from driver version 595.
Driver 580 is what I need, it worked until 7.0 but no longer in 7.1 (was using Fedora 44). Since my hardware is old I switched to Debian Trixie.
Another example is the facetime HD Webcam of macbook pro: to make it work you have to install OSx or download a recovery image, compile a C program to extract a specific binary blob, then use that blob to recompile the driver on your kernel.
There are lots of examples: it’s a big world, with lots of hardware and mostly no producer interested in the Linux world.
This depends a bit on the distro you are using. Like in arch you should not use the proprietary drivers for older cards but the open ones. My guess is there are some community drivers you should use instead.
😆😂🤣 Are you kidding? Have you tried using nouveau? It works, sure, but you can’t play games that are even vaguely modern and if something uses up a bit too much RAM the entire display system starts jittering/lagging or becomes unresponsive. Source: I ran nouveau with a GTX 2080 for years. I was only able to fully ditch Windows once I fully ditched Nvidia (by switching to an AMD GPU and scrubbing every last vestige of Nvidia’s bullshit off my PC).
you mean the nouveau driver? the one that is unable to up the frequencies from the minimum because it is not signed by nvidia? it may work as a display output, but not much else
Psht. I wish! This is wrong and will set people up for failure. There is absolutely hardware that will work well with Linux and hardware that will not.
I tend to run into problems with brand new laptops. Microphones don’t work, web cams don’t work, fingerprint readers don’t work.
I have a Dell Dell Pro next to me with a web cam that doesn’t work. Arch, btw.
I also have a Lenovo T14 where everything does work.
The point is you have to RESEARCH before you buy. Otherwise, you’re gonna get mad a Linux for not supporting your hardware, instead of being mad at yourself for not researching first.
Hardware that’s too old is problematic and hardware that’s too new can be problematic.
And unsurprisingly my framework laptop works perfectly under Linux
Wait, it isn’t the point to nuke “spy equipment” with a new OS?
No, the point is not to nuke it. One point is to have control over your own hardware and (in principle) be able to make sure the software/OS is not using your devices to spy on you.
Unfortunately this is not true. If manufacturers do not support Linux, then it is up to dedicated community members to reverse engineer drivers. Much love to these amazing people ❤️
Things have gotten much better in recent years because now Linux is seen as a legitimate operating system and not just a platform for hobbyists.
except when the manufacturer puts effort into locking out reverse engineers through cryptography.
fuck you, nvidia!
There’s still tons of devices where Linux doesn’t work properly with them.
My Intel wireless cards cannot maintain a 6ghz wireless connection for shit despite some of them being over 5 years old. And Intel. Latest stuff, older kernels, none work well. Oddly whatever version of Fedora I had worked the best. My wifi wasn’t unusable when 6ghz was an option. It only dropped to 5/2.4ghz once a minute instead of every 5-20 seconds.
For me any Wi-Fi drops were solved by disabling power saving in NetworkManager
Create a conf file:
sudo nano /etc/NetworkManager/conf.d/wifi-powersave.confAdd this into the config file:
[connection] wifi.powersave = 2Then restart
NetworkManageror reboot your systemI tried this but it didn’t seem to help. Mostly because it only wants to use 5ghz. I think I tried doing a bunch of “fixes” so maybe I should just start fresh. This is on my testing machine that I don’t use regularly so only god knows what I’ve done to it.
Also did you do this on a laptop with S0 standby? How does that affect sleep?
My guess is that you are noticing the difference between new and old kernels
Sure, but that doesn’t change that it’s regressed since that one version and still hasn’t been re fixed.
If the old (or LTS) version of the kernel doesn’t support something newer, and the new version of the kernel does, that would not be a regression.
I learned this when Skylake first came out. Ubuntu LTS didn’t work on it because it was an old kernel and this was new hardware. If you have new hardware, use a new kernel.
it does not sound like its the new version that is better for them. more like an older version was better, newer is worse.
This Fedora version was a year+ ago. Even on 7.0 wifi is unusable on my machines if I have 6ghz enabled.
666 upvotes
This might be the most dweeby thing I’ve seen. I love it :)
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This comment has me loling so hard. It’s kind of like the difference between Bad Dragon and Doc Johnson.
Either way you are getting DESTROYED
I don’t get that reference. The only thing I know is how to do my job I was trained for in the most dubious manner.
Linux is free and doesn’t care if you bootleg porn. Microsoft might, and definitely notes it.
Just use windows. We don’t want you here.
Unfortunately, I’m needed everywhere.
drops badge
Ah shit, now the battle is lost! Well, you guys in the van can pack it up. I’m not good at this cop thing I tell you, but by your response I bet you don’t realize Epstein was a cop too. Still alive for that reason. Same reason Trump’s in office; it’s a sting that he’s helping investigators with, which totally was not what I was doing. Because I’m not a cop, obviously. I’d be real bad at it, talking about cop shit, amirite? Yea, no, I’m just some crackhead on the internet. All I am.
You are fun because you are silly.
No I’m just funny looking
Different disks if you must at all.
i’ve quadbooted a lot before (linux/freebsd/osx/windows), it works pretty well these days with uefi. was pretty hard to handle with legacy bios though
Why no Plan9? Are you even an OS enthusiast?
What no TempleOS? YOU’LL BURN IN FLAMES!!!
I wish it has more hardware support, it doesn’t even run on my hardware
lol. i only tried 9front like once but it was too difficult!
2 separate bootloader partitions. Grub launches the windows bootloader on a different partition so it isn’t aware of anything other than itself. Then the 2nd bootloader actually launches windows. Don’t try to share one partition or else windows will inevitably wind up clobbering the Linux loader.
Windows will know, its lik a cancer
This assumes windows is not maliciously checking for other bootloaders in order to fuck with them, which I’m not willing to give MS the benefit of the doubt on tbh.
It does work.
If you have two EFI partitions, Windows will stop looking once it finds the first one.
Which is actually a problem sometimes, as it will stop looking and use the first one it finds, even if it’s on different drive than windows.
Imagine installing windows on a machine with two drives. Drive A already has an OS and an EFI partition, so you install Windows to drive B.
Except Windows will still go ahead and drop the bootloader onto drive A. Potentially breaking the OS that’s there, plus setting up Windows in such a way that it requires drive A to boot. EVEN THOUGH THAT ISN’T WHERE YOU INSTALLED IT.
This is why guides tell you to install windows with only one drive connected. It’s the only way to ensure it puts the bootloader and OS on the same drive.
I have found that removing the EFI flag from the partition also works. I just choose which is easier, since removing some nvme SSDs can be buried under a few components depending on the motherboard
Then Windows will fuck up the EFI entry itself. Easy to fix of course but a pain in the ass when you are just starting with Linux and have barely any idea other than reinstalling for the 10th time in a few weeks.
This is the way. I just discovered this, but the lazy way. If I want windows, I mash f8 on startup to get the manual boot selection. I never start windows through grub (systemd-boot in my case). It has its own EFI partition.
Grub refers to this as chainloading and I did it years ago successfully (though with windows 10). Everything has to be EFI boot so grub can see the windows bootloader.
My bootloader has survived just fine despite being dual boot for the past 2 years. It may have something to do with me only having booted windows once in all that time (to fix a borked NTFS drive) 😁
That certainly helps.
In my case the solution is two EFI partitions.
Windows finds the first and doesn’t bother looking for a second one, which happens to contain grub and my efistubs.
Windows will go ahead and clear the UEFI menu sometimes, but manually booting an efi file and then re-adding the grub and stub boot entries is small compared to having my stuff actually deleted.
Dual booting us viable, if you’re curious its good to try linux via dual boot. Windows doesnt break the linux bootloader. The incident referencing was a bug I believe. I know plenty of people who’ve been dual booting for 2+ years keeping both OSs up to date with no issue.
My laptop only has one m.2 ssd/slot. I have the ssd partitioned for Linux and windows 11 dual boot. Grub boot loader. I have had it set up this way for 4 years now, and no windows updates have messed up by Linux install or boot loader yet 🤞
I have had Windows update completely obliterate my Linux partitions at least twice.
Do you remember if its happened in the past 2 years? A patch windows put out in 2024 is supposed to fix this.
No, I jist run straight Linux (Laptop) or straight Windows (Desktop) now. I don’t have a need to dual boot anymore.
If I didn’t play Fortnite so much I wouldn’t run Windows at all honestly.
I’ve had windows nuke my bootloader at least thrice. Stopped dual booting a few years ago so I’m free of that nonsense.
That wasn’t “an incident.” The notion of Windows breaking Linux’s bootloader has been a known thing for at least a decade.
I have had it break my bootloader when I was dual booting, if it wasn’t my main pc then I might risk it but I’m not rolling the dice on if windows decides to break it again.
I believe dual boot is more feasible when you have more than one drive, so you don’t risk corrupting it. Another option to test a Linux distribution would be using virtual machines
If you’re just testing a distro, then a live-bootable USB is also a great option.
Still it’s a really good idea to keep a rescue USB drive handy, for when windows decides to update it’s boot loader and blitzes your setup
