Things are undoubtedly bad at Tesla. Its sales are dwindling. Its profits are plunging, as is its share price. There are regular protests outside its showrooms. The Cybertruck is a flop. And somehow, it’s actually a lot worse than that.

The 71% drop in net income it just reported may have been overshadowed by CEO Elon Musk’s announcement that he would be stepping back from his controversial duties at the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE). But that drop is just one indication of serious financial sickness at the EV maker, problems brought on by falling sales for the first time in its history and falling prices for electric vehicles.

The bottom line problem at Tesla is its vanishing bottom line. A deeper look at its first quarter report shows it’s now losing money on what should be its ostensible reason for existence – selling cars.

It was only able to post a $409 million profit in the quarter thanks to the sale of $595 million worth of regulatory credits to other automakers.

But if the Trump administration gets its way, the company can kiss those regulatory credits keeping it in the black goodbye, too.

  • megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    15 hours ago

    The interesting thing is, Tesla is perhaps the most obvious and extreme example, but they’re not the only auto manufacturer this is happening to right now. Nissan is in a bit of a tail spin as well.

    There are so many problems slamming in to the auto industry right now. Even beyond the tariff instability.

    In the US in particular, As cars have gotten more reliable and longer lasting, the market for new “budget” cars has dried up. Car buyers who might have once bought budget are now buying used cars that probably have a good many years left. The sales of new cars have been declining since 2016 but new car price have been skyrocketing, keeping up revenue growth for automakers.

    This seemed ideal for automakers as it meant they could drop the lean margins of cheap cars and focus on higher margin markets, which looked much better to shareholders. Those companies that focused on this budget market have suffered, the best example being Nissan. The ideal for automakers is that people will buy “up” the value chain over time, buying higher end or “less used” vehicles when they trade in their old vehicle, going from a twice used, to a once used and eventually to a new car.

    This kind of came to a head during the pandemic. Not only was the supply of lower end used vehicles dwindling as less and less entered the market due to less being made a few years back, there was also a shortage of new cars due to supply chain break downs and an increase in demand. Many people were taking out insane financing on massively over priced cars, both new and used. Now a lot of people are underwater on those auto loans from the pandemic because the trade-in/sales price is less way than what they have left on the loan. Many are also defaulting on those insane pandemic auto loans and their repossessed cars are ending up back on the market, increasing supply in the used market.

    Many who are underwater on their auto loans but can still make payments can’t afford to make even larger payments, so rolling over the principle from the last loan into a new loan on another car is impractical. So they aren’t buying, let alone moving up the market to buy new or higher end. The demand being suppressed in the used market and the supply being bolstered by repos means used prices are massively depressed. This depressed used market carries over to the new market in turn, as most people buying new probably couldn’t afford to do so without trading in their old car, so a depressed used market hurts their purchasing power. Why would someone buy a new car when the only new one the could afford is probably worse than the existing car.

    Tesla is getting a lot of focus because of the political entanglement of their high profile CEO, but the whole industry is under strain. Nissan is frantically looking for buyers to help them out of the debt hole they’re in, and groups like Stellantis (owners of Chrysler, Fiat, Jeep, Ram and Dodge) are desperately chasing new revenue streams as absurd as ads in the central console.

    • ...m...@ttrpg.network
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      10 hours ago

      …nah man, that’s on the domestic dealers + automakers choosing not to market small affordable cars in favor of big profitable road-tanks, and it’s not the first time they’ve priced themselves out of the market like this…

      • Thrashy@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        In fairness(?) Ford bet big on small cars in the wake of the Great Recession, and that worked well for a while, but by the time they decided that the only non-truck (from a CAFE standpoint) that they were going to keep selling was the Mustang, they were losing money on every Focus and Fiesta they sold.

        A lot of that was their godawful automatic transmission that was forcing them to spend zillions in warranty repairs, but at the end of the day the margin on economy cars is so slim that you can’t afford to make mistakes. Rather than bet on perfect execution in a market that was already shrinking in the US, they decided to focus on higher-margin products… and that’s fine in the short term, but as you mention it’s going to leave them exposed once nobody can afford to spend $50k+ on a horrifically overpriced big pickup anymore.

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    15 hours ago

    Good riddance. Nazis dont deserve to be rewarded. They deserve the worse of the worse.

    • roofuskit@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      The Nazis actually made good cars. Tesla is all the worst parts without the good cars.

  • Pnut@lemm.ee
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    17 hours ago

    At this point of negative journalism, any company that didn’t choose to bend the knee to Trump’s lunacy would have been denied. The right hates electric vehicles. The right hates these pesky journalists. The right says they’re clever enough to see a grifter. However, when an electric car company run by an un-qualified rich boy from South Afrika utilises the media to inflate their numbers so they can sell more electric cars to the people they betrayed (not their “new customers”, they won’t buy into electric because of their personal politics) it’s all “why have trans people existed for so long?”

    Monkeys amongst apes.

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    2 days ago

    This is a big fact almost no one speaks of. Tesla has only ever been profitable by manipulating the carbon footprint regulations and selling Ford and GMC carbon credits. Not a single tesla vehicle has ever been profitable as an actual vehicle. You know, the product they claim to be selling. The real product is pollution hiding. N ot correcting, not fixing, not even slowing pollution. No, its a shell game. Tesla is making money by shifting the blame of pollution for profit. Oh, they build vehicles also.

    • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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      14 hours ago

      Not a single tesla vehicle has ever been profitable as an actual vehicle.

      This honestly couldn’t be further from the truth.

      Tesla’s vehicles once ramped have always been extremely profitable (except probably the CyberTruck as it hasn’t properly ramped due to low demand)

      Any losses you see are due to their aggressive growth involving capital expenditures and research and development. It’s not that the vehicle isn’t profitable.

      The ZEV credits are just bonus money that they can then leverage to expand faster.

      Edit: If you want to try and see this another way that might make sense… The Model S and X were very profitable, but they didn’t make enough money to fund the expansion for the Model 3 and Y. Ditch the Model 3 and Y, and remain a boutique luxury car company, and they would posted profits instead of losses. It wasn’t the cars losing money, it was the growth. The ZEV credits accelerated that growth immensely by giving them more breathing room.

      • orcrist@lemm.ee
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        9 hours ago

        You have just argued against the article itself. Should we believe you?

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          6 hours ago

          The article doesn’t say they’ve never made a profit on any of their cars. If that’s what you got from that, you should try reading it again.

          Also, if you make 1 billion in profit on something, and then spend 2 billion researching and developing and setting up a factory to build a new product, you end up with a loss of 1 billion. That does not mean your first thing is unprofitable. This is pretty basic stuff.

          The vehicles are profitable, they just didn’t provide enough profit this quarter to cover their R&D and capital expenditures for growth.

          Edit: Sorry, and in case it wasn’t clear, their R&D and capital expenditures dwarf the ZEV credits every quarter.

    • Estradiol Enjoyer @lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      17 hours ago

      the only reason anyone has bought a cybertruck for a business is because incentives for heavy vehicles make it possible to almost entirely write them off on taxes

  • Sundray@lemmus.org
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    2 days ago

    I’m always happy to see bad news for Tesla (and by extension, Elon), but they’ve survived so much despite their mismanagement it feels like we’ll never be rid of them.

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      2 days ago

      I’d like to see their charging network survive in some way, maybe under someone else’s control. From what I’ve heard from EV owners the Tesla charging stations are the only ones that are readily available especially outside of cities (at least here in Australia).

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        9 hours ago

        In the US, the Tesla charging network is the most reliable and most widespread.

        It’s one of the reasons many people buy a Tesla; there’s no faffing around with third party charging stations that are a crapshoot IF they work and IF they’re not in a dodgy location.

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        16 hours ago

        Hopefully Tesla goes under so much, they have to sell the charging network.

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      Be of good cheer! That kinda market valuation doesn’t disappear overnight, just too much money to piss away quickly. But our man Musk is on the case!

      And you’ll love this, Musk is committing the ultimate capitalist sin: Losing money. No problem going in the red, if your business plans aren’t made of half-ply toilet paper and ghosts. LOL, even Trump will shit on him as soon as it’s clear that Elon is a “loser”.

  • Thorry84@feddit.nl
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    2 days ago

    Its profits are plunging, as is its share price.

    Looks at share price: Up 10% in the last month…

    • potatopotato@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      The market can remain irrational longer that you can remain solvent.

      The problem isn’t that you can’t predict when a stock is mispriced, that’s sometimes very easy, it’s predicting when all the other dipshits will come to the same conclusion because ultimately that’s all that matters.

      Right now musk still has a personality cult and there are a lot of morons buying the stock like their worldview depends on it. They don’t read the earnings reports, they don’t read unbiased news, they mostly don’t even own the cars, they just think it’s going to the moon because…for lack of a better word, propaganda.

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        18 hours ago

        People interested in cars have been scratching our heads with Tesla for years. Like at one point it was worth more than every other car market combined and its value kept going up. I mean there seems like years of irrational prices to the point it would be silly to bet against it

      • shalafi@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Nailed it. I’d add that investors are treating it as a meme stock, and as you said, it’s unrealistic. Fuck me, talk about a house of cards.

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      But still down 20% from the start of the year, when Trump was supposed to make it soar.
      It’s not going to survive this high for long with the abysmal sales figures coming from the rest of the world, even if the Musk cult currently still keeps pretending everything is going great.

      • sfled@lemm.ee
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        2 days ago

        Wait, you mean The Commercial on the White House lawn back in March didn’t move more units?! surprisedpikachuface.jpg

    • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      How is it possible that tesla is losing sales in markets where EVs are growing? Not a good sign

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      Publications LOOOOVE to write these articles and then sit on them until the stock gets like a 1-day 5% drop so they can misrepresent the situation. Take a look back 6 months or 12 mos. and it’s even greater.

      • ripcord@lemmy.world
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        sit on them until the stock gets like a 1-day 5% drop so they can misrepresent the situation

        ok, but that didn’t happen here

        • Ulrich@feddit.org
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          20 hours ago

          Point is, it only looks bad if you look at a very specific period of time.

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    Funniest thing about Tesla was the idea they’d make evs more economical and realible after starting in the luxury space. They did exactly the opposite and now shareholders are paying dearly.

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    2 days ago

    It was only able to post a $409 million profit in the quarter thanks to the sale of $595 million worth of regulatory credits to other automakers.

    Without the regulatory credits, and capital gains Tesla would be $500 million in the red.
    And sales continue to drop in all markets. Tesla is no longer competitive in China and EU, only in USA due to tariffs on cars.
    A couple of years ago Tesla boasted the highest margins in the industry on their cars, now they are so low, that if prices continue to drop, Tesla will soon be at s deficit on every car sold if they try to follow, or if they don’t reduce prices, their cars will simply be too expensive. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    • Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      Maybe they will get bailed out like the airlines did though. I want to see them burn, but nothing seems to work the way it’s supposed to anymore.

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        2 days ago

        Airlines run on paper-thin margins and are critical to the economy and country as a whole. Yeah, we kinda have to keep them afloat. Tesla does not enjoy that sort of role.

        • AA5B@lemmy.world
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          17 hours ago

          Or instead of trying to keep Airlines’s from sinking, we could invest in intercity rail, so there would be travel options. Imagine having a choice

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    18 hours ago

    Not good. There’s still some remnant of the idealistic vision, hiding from the Nazi.

    • robotaxis will eventually be a good thing, but it will be a long time before they’re profitable. I’m all for the experiment, whether teslas approach succeeds or not, but Tesla can no longer afford to stick to a money losing experiment
    • the semi has huge potential to disrupt the trucking industry and rapidly decarbonize it. While I do see other companies experimenting with battery trucks, no one else has the potential combining mass produced parts from other vehicles, mass produced charging stations and mega storage, nor are taking the risk to scale up manufacturing. We need to electrify trucking and like it or not Tesla has some unique strengths that may help them succeed first. We need this
    • these are teslas big upcoming efforts and they’re both an attempt to be revolutionary, which means risky, money losing. While I can get onboard the protest bandwagon, deprive the Nazi of his god level wealth, we need the EV revolution in trucking
    • tfm@europe.pub
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      17 hours ago

      robotaxis

      It’s going to be a disaster. Tesla “FSD” is glorified cruise control on level 2 on the autonomous driving scale.

      semi

      It’s already a disaster. The economics don’t add up and the few on the road break down all the time.

        • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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          15 hours ago

          There are other electric semi trucks out there, but none (at least as of last year) compare in specs and capabilities. The big issue is their power consumption is much higher than the Tesla Semi which has been repeatedly validated by their testers as even better than what Tesla advertises. Efficiency will be king in this kind of business.

          Worse efficiency = less range = more batteries = less load capacity = less money per delivery

          E.g this is from DHL

          https://www.dhl.com/global-en/delivered/responsibility/dhl-tests-tesla-semi-electric-truck.html

          Over a two-week trial period this summer, DHL Supply Chain USA took a thorough look under the hood of the Tesla Semi, integrating the e-truck into 3,000 miles (5,000 km) of normal operations out of Livermore, California. The trial included one long haul of 390 miles (625 km) – fully loaded with a gross combined weight of 75,000 pounds (34 metric tons) – confirming the Tesla Semi’s ability to carry typical DHL payloads over a long distance on a single charge.

          During the trial, the trial vehicle averaged 1.72 kWh/mile operating at speeds exceeding 50 mph (80 km/h) on average for over half its time on the road. The result exceeded our expectations and even Tesla’s own rating.

          Putting the Tesla Semi to the test allowed us to validate whether it could travel 500 miles with a fully loaded trailer and see what our drivers thought of the truck’s performance. We were encouraged by how quickly they gained confidence with the vehicle and leveraged the Tesla’s smart features to help improve performance, comfort, and the overall driver experience.

          Edit: Just some examples… I don’t know if these have been verified in use unlike the Tesla, so all theoretical based on the advertised miles/battery size.

          • Mercedes: 1.935 kWh/mile (310 miles)
          • Kenworth: 2.5 kWh/mile (200 miles)
          • Volvo: 2.05 kWh/mile (275miles)

          And those are all shorter range at that.

          Edit: I should also add… we don’t know the price of the Tesla Semi. Its possible that its ridiculously priced and the increased efficiency is negated even over the life of the vehicle compared to the other trucks. That’s a big unknown given these are pilot vehicles.

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        12 hours ago

        I tried fsd demo this spring and it’s getting pretty good. I wouldn’t use it but it was perfect on well marked roads. The thing is it made me realize just how poorly maintained our roads are and everything is an edge case. For example it didn’t stay in lane at one Intersection but the intersection was a weird offset plus the lines were all faded away. Although I also disnt give it any chance to recover so I suppose it could have been ok: Im not risking it not recovering

        It might surprise everyone but mostly by staying in a well maintained well mapped area, like Waymo did. There’s no way it fulfills the claim of self-driving everywhere without more improvements

        The robots is will have the next generation computer and higher resolution cameras which may help. However that also allows more overhead for the next ai update

        • tfm@europe.pub
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          8 hours ago

          I get what you mean but it’s still stuck at level 2 and it always will be. No matter how good it is, if you move your eyes from the road, it will eventually kill you. Cameras alone are not sufficient enough for autonomous driving.

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            2 hours ago

            Cameras alone are not sufficient enough for autonomous driving.

            I disagree with this assertion, because they’re correct that the only being that can currently drive is relying on vision. Vision alone is sufficient for driving.

            But autonomous driving really hasn’t succeeded yet. We still have no idea what is required for autonomous driving or whether we can do it at all, regardless of sensors.

            So you’re implying that we can definitely do autonomous driving but can’t do it the way humans do, whereas I say we won’t know the requirements until we find some that succeed, and we may never

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              50 minutes ago

              Yeah sure. If you want the same bad results as humans deliver, in terms of crash rates, than it’s possible. I wouldn’t trust it. Also human vision and processing is completely different from computer vision and processing.

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                Presumably we have the intelligence to set requirements before something can be called self-driving - that’s usually what the fuss is about, whether the marketing is claiming it’s something it’s not.

                If they fail with their approach, I’m fine with that, just like I’m fine if Waymo fails with their approach. Of either succeeds, why should I care how? Obviously there’s a problem if it runs over some old lady at a stop sign and drags them down the street but that’s clearly a failure for them

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      I think it’ll be more of an Enron slash Theranos docudrama… questionable accounting and overvaluation mixed with a superstar CEO stuck in a faking-it-till-you-make-it corporate death loop with investors drunk on hype.

  • GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml
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    It also wants to end the right of California and eight other states to demand tougher emissions regulations than the federal standards that would ban the sale of gasoline-powered vehicles by 2035. Without tough emissions rules at the federal and state level, there would be no regulatory credit sales.

    The sale of those federal and state credits has been quite lucrative for Tesla, bringing in $8.4 billion in revenue since the start of 2021 alone, money that basically went straight to its bottom line.

    Is this the greenwashing scam companies use to pretend that they are working toward a carbon-neutral production line? They’re just speculating on future production and selling today’s emissions to today’s buyers on tomorrow’s promise?

    How fucked.

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      Technically it’s the intended result. It helped fund one or more purely EV manufacturers for the future. Legacy companies chose not to invest n new technology for the longest time, but had to pay the price. At some point that price is too high but the innovators are awarded and the technology has become cheaper, so the surviving legacy manufacturers can adopt it. Ts a good thing that it helped fund a successful EV manufacturer by penalizing the laggards. That was the goal

      The only real failure is the credits were apparently too cheap since legacy manufacturers still had to be forced, and are still regressing the first chance they get

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    2 days ago

    Weren’t they selling like 3000 cars a day at every single dealership in Canada? Seems like sales should be fine.

    Funny how now they are making money selling regulatory credits. Lol

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      I think your comment is misunderstood.

      The 3000 cars a day were just for a few days before the government credits were set to expire.

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        Yeah some people don’t get sarcasm.

        Anyway I think musk took the Canadian credits and smuggled them across the border without paying tariffs so he could then sell them as US regulatory credits. It all makes sense now.

        • ripcord@lemmy.world
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          Because they weren’t selling 3000 a day. They were selling a huge number a minute, one day (maybe a couple).

        • shalafi@lemmy.world
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          I’m often stunned that internet people take everything a face value, even an obvious post like yours. OTOH, Americans’ read at an average of 7th-8th grade levels. Go figure.