Hello everynyan, we’re finishing This Soviet World.

Week 16 we are reading the last chapter, 16: “New Men Emerge.” And discussing the book as a whole

EPUB, a link to a PDF, and online reading options, can be found on Comrade’s Library. If you find problems with the EPUB tell me and I will fix it. An audiobook is available through torrents or on the Internet Archive


Previous discussions:

Week 15 - Week 14 - Week 13 - Week 12 - Week 11 - Week 10 - Week 9 - Week 8 - Week 7 - Week 6 - Week 5 - Week 4 - Week 3 - Week 2 - Week 1


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      • Do you think The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism could be moved in the program for the reading group, up to be before Karl Marx? It would mean we could do 2.1+2.3 and get ~1 hour of audiobook for that week. I am using audiobook time to ensure people have time to read and understand, even if they don’t use the audiobook. And then I’m aiming at ~1hr where possible.


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        • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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          The original intent was to have it summarize everything thus far for the reader, so putting it before Karl Marx would defeat that purpose. I’d be happier removing it at that point than keeping it, not because it would be bad, but because it would not add as much if it were read too early. I think people can often get lost in the weeds when learning something new, so it’s kind of a “checkpoint” work.

          Would moving it after Manifesto make it flow better if you go by audio books? It would serve the same purpose, just blunting the Manifesto’s utility as a call to action a tiny bit.

            • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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              Interesting. I’ll take a look at it and adjust well before we get there, thanks for the suggestion. I don’t oppose it if you wish to bundle it that way, as long as Understanding Lenin is first then I’m happy with it, but I want to see if I think it needs to be rearranged for the master list itself.

              On a side-note, considering chopping a huge amount of the list out. Everything needs to fight to stay here, so by the end of the list it might be about half as long. Really trying to shift to the reality that reading lists are fun, but every org worth its salt has a cadre training program of their own, even the DSA does this. If I have the belief that everyone should be getting organized, then the list must be made with that assumption in mind and help facilitate that process, not risk stretching it out and creating a period of time where people feel that they aren’t “correct enough” to join an org.

              Keeping it as-is would be good for the reading group, but for propaganda it might not be as good. That’s also why I am considering writing a propaganda pamphlet, maybe making a substack or something and spreading that around.

              Just ideas rattling around my empty head.

              • For me the goal is just to cut down on how many weeks it will take, while trying to keep the weekly reading below 2 hours, around 1 where possible. The current program I have marked up would take 28 weeks.

                1. Introduction
                • Week 1: 1+2+3+4+5
                • Week 2: 6
                1. Fundamentals
                • Week 3: 1
                • Week 4: 2+3 (Bibliography not required in Karl Marx)
                • Week 5: 4
                1. Philosophy
                • Week 6: 1 Part 1
                • Week 7: 1 Part 2
                • Week 8: 2
                1. Political Economy
                • Week 9: 1
                • Week 10: 2
                • Week 11: 3
                1. Scientific Socialism
                • Week 12: 1
                • Week 13: 2 Part 1, 2, 3
                • Week 14: 2 Part 4, 5, 6
                • Week 15: 3
                1. Imperialism
                • Week 16: 1 Part 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
                • Week 17: 1 Part 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
                • Week 18: 2+3
                1. Leninism
                • Week 19: 1+4+5
                • Week 20: 2: ½
                • Week 21: 2: ½
                • Week 22: 3
                • Week 23: 6
                1. Cultural Hegemony
                • Week 24: 1+2
                • Week 25: 3
                1. Social Liberation
                • Week 26: 1+2
                • Week 27: 3
                • Week 28: 4

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                • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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                  That’s a great breakdown! Ideally I can trim it to 12 weeks by the end of it. Section 1 I am considering just having Why Marxism and General Rules of Independent Study alone, for example, and section 2 would pretty much just have Karl Marx. I really don’t want to do this, but I could swap back to Stalin and Mao for philosophy to trim it, but I really like Cornforth there. Section 4 could just be Nia Frome’s work. The rest of the sections could see similar trimmings.

                  This is where I am debating a microlist, knowing it would compete with the main list, or a propaganda pamphlet, or just having one trimmed list and perhaps a compository of recommended works in place of an advanced list for future studies. I honestly have no clue at this point, and the reading group will hopefully give me the experience and feedback I need to decide on a direction.

          • Nope. It’s just this [~5 min / 18 min] in between [~1 hr / 1hr 28 min] and [~1hr / 1 hr 35 min]. If it could have been together with Principles of Communism it would have been 5+30/18+48. I think I’ll join it with Karl Marx then.

            Edit: I just remembered, half of Karl Marx is the bibliography, if it isn’t included in the required reading then it goes from ~1hr/1h 28min to ~30m / ~44min. So it is probably fine.


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        • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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          Comrade @edie@lemmy.encryptionin.space will be running it, and I will help with providing context for why I picked it, why it’s good for newcomers and whether it is important to revisit for experienced cadre or not, etc. I will also be listening for areas of improvement, such as adding or subtracting works, as well as restructuring.

          On that note, do you have anything to suggest? Did you complete the old list, or the new list? I’d love to hear from people that have engaged with it, whether they completed it or not, and see if I can improve!

          • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            Oh, you updated it a couple of weeks ago, I guess I haven’t read it then, or parts of it at least. In particular I see this guy “Lenin” mentioned a lot, I hope his books are a good read!

            But seriously, I’m afraid I don’t really have much to offer, most of the content on it tends to be fairly brief and easy to pick up and read (which is great, because it really doesn’t give any excuses to not just read a little bit), but I’m not sure I know of anything that could be both relevant and fairly succinct, you’ve got a lot of important works there. Perhaps Combat Liberalism could fit in well after Left-Wing Childishness since it covers a similar topic? It does deviate quite a bit from the focus on Leninism in that part of the list though. It’s also more for organised comrades to consider rather than beginners as well, even if it is very understandable and quotable.

            • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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              I actually updated it about a year ago I think, the latest edits were adding one article to Scientific Socialism and restructuring the order of Introduction so as to focus on getting buy-in before telling people how to study. I do think adding a bit more on organizational theory would be beneficial, I tried to include that in Leninism as that’s really core to Leninism but I may make a new section and try to trim from some other sections to fit it in.

              • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                I think it might be fine as is.

                Another point to consider is the longer the list is the more daunting it may seem to read, so I think splitting things into the “beginner” section and the “advanced” section for further reading is a good idea, especially since organisational work is kind of the next step after the self-organisation of developing class consciousness and learning about Marxist ideas.

                • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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                  That’s the idea, haha. I might make a future microlist, probably composed of tiny Red Sails articles and Liberation School entries, Prolewiki entries, etc. The future advanced list is meant to deepen understanding set up in the basic list, while also introducing the reader more to educational praxis, history, and concepts like SWCCfaNE and juche socialism, so as to understand contemporary existing socialism.

  • hello_hello [hy/hym]@hexbear.net
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    Highlights

    Then I saw him evade a kiss from “Little Slant-Eyes,” a Tartar girl with whom for two days he had been joking.

    • “This Volcel World” but also eww that nickname.

    Our older men are marked by too many years of combat. Our younger men can hardly appreciate the grimness of what they have never known. But I spent my childhood in oppression and my youth fighting for freedom; I am old enough to know the conquered past, yet young enough for a whole new life.”

    As mentioned in “Youth set Free,” this rings so bittersweet in the backdrop of the Great Patriotic War.

    Pravda elaborated this theme into an editorial on the Soviet ideal of character, declaring it to be the exact opposite of that “unquestioning obedience” which Hitler had previously demanded in an impassioned speech to fascist youth.

    “Strong and original individuality,” was claimed by Pravda as the basic quality of a Soviet citizen. Not the “rugged individualism” which capitalism in its early stages glorifies for its upper classes, and which sinks into gangsterism in the fascist decline.

    Many anticommunist pieces rely on the theme of “unquestioning obedience" to depict the Soviet world as cold and uncaring. Not surprisingly this is another projection of the mechanisms of fascism onto socialism in the double genocide canon. Throughout this book we have seen that Soviet democracy had not suppressed individual expression but had finally given it the roots to grow. Over and over we are given description of former serfs who became highly educated scientists and engineers, roles most associated with individual accomplishment. Fascism seeks power from inscribing a truth to the world while communism analyzes power from the truths already present. The working class dictatorship does not exist in a vacuum while the capitalist dictatorship attempts to portray society as already completed.

    I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that the True Crime genre has always been popular in the US. The romantic literary canon of western outlaws to Tommy gun wielding mafiosos appeals to the sense of “rugged individualism.” These anti-heroes of American corporate folklore are able to defend the capitalist system because they are so thoroughly stripped of their class character. I’ve written before about one of the most popular American TV series Breaking Bad (2008) and how it’s success hinges upon the “complex analysis of a burdened soul” (XIII The Democratization of Art).

    Earlier in the chapter:

    He was constantly puzzled by the tactics of American capitalists, considered from the standpoint of their own survival.”

    The American capitalists will make the noose to tie themselves and to tie the rest of the country with them. It’s hard to even conceptualize just how long lasting the capitalist system while simultaneously being the shortest (climate change will wipe out the system along with humanity).

    They [capitalist persons] have been so accustomed to considering that their own life is “free” and Soviet life “regimented” that they cannot at once grasp a viewpoint which holds the exact opposite.

    This reminds me of Masses, Elites, and Rebels: The Theory of “Brainwashing” (2022) by Roderic Day of Redsails fame. There’s really no way to change someones mind on a dime about socialism without them being radicalized enough to do away with their current worldview. It is really tiring to have to defend oneself against the lies launched against socialism. I really appreciate how This Soviet World is written in the perspective of an American and it’s such a unique journalistic work because of that.

    The Stakhanovites section was also cool to read. It answers the “how are people motivated to produce more and more if there is no profit?” question that plagues conversations with skeptics. I’ll have later thoughts about the work as a whole later.

  • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    Very interesting chapter historically, still very sad as always, you can see the build up of the Great Patriotic war in the distance, the massive improvements made during this time all but guaranteed that capital would need to strike sooner rather than later, the longer they left the Soviets alone, the more impossible their already impossible task of destroying them militarily would become. I’ve never really understood the material reasons for the war as well as I do now, the capitalists were on borrowed time.

    It also parallels modern US ambition against China, China is already at the point where the US cannot win a conventional war with them, but much like the Nazis, their desperation might drive them to try anyway, and it would be truly horrific to see a similar fate for China as we saw for the USSR, victorious, but devastated, never able to recover to those same heights.

    Not related to the book, but I’ve been reading a little on the effects of Khrushchev’s secret speech on global socialist movements, and the more I learn, the more I feel it was snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, the Soviets had shown they were everything wonderful this book has shown them to be, compassionate, hardworking, dedicated, gentle, but far from powerless and weak, they were a shining example of socialism for the rest of humanity to follow, but it seems that after Stalin’s death, their national spirit was broken, political nihilism had set in, they stagnated and slowly faded into capitalist restoration.

    I would love for a recommendation for further reading on how the USSR went from their peak, arguably the peak of all humanity, to their decline and eventual destruction, my understanding is quite basic at the moment, and it feels like a solid next step in further understanding the USSR.

    Ultimately I don’t like to think about “what if” too much, but this book has really made it just so hard not too, such optimism for the future, how little the capitalist world has changed in almost a century, how the same myths that were being spread then are not buried and forgotten, or laughed at and mocked for their unrealistic and untrue nonsense, but are pillars of western society. Ask anyone who can barely read or write thanks to their capitalist education, they may barely be able to read a fast food menu, knowing nothing of science or innovation or anything really, but ask them about why the Soviet Union and Stalin were horrible and bad, and they’ll have a dozen examples ready to go off the top of their head. Victims of this system that bear the same “empty peasant gaze” as mentioned in a previous chapter will often be capitalism’s loudest and most aggressive defenders.

    This book shows how rapidly material conditions can change a person, this was written a generation out from the Tsars, the “New Soviet Man” was so much more alive than those under feudalism, and developing so rapidly that even those living under capital were struggling to relate to them. So bright and optimistic for the future.

    “Ten years hence,” said a Stakhanovite to me, “farming and industry may cease to be our main occupations. But there are other occupations when once we produce all the goods we need. Human development, exploration, science—to these there are no limits!”

    This future they imagined didn’t come to pass, but this book really has inspired me, more so than any other work of theory, to really push for that future in whatever way I can. Thank you Edie for starting this group. And thank you all for tolerating my comments on it, which tended to be very long winded and talking mostly about myself rather than deep analysis, I hope people still enjoyed reading my thoughts though, I certainly enjoyed reading the discussions on each chapter, even went back to read the discussions on the chapters I fell behind on, regretting that pretty heavily while doing so, I would’ve loved to participate!

    Looking forward to the next reading group, Soviet democracy is something I’ve had a lot of success “selling” to people in my life, people are very eager for a Soviet system, as long as you don’t use the scary “S” word to describe it, and just describe it as a system, but I’m hoping that learning more thoroughly about it will give me the confidence I need to really openly push for understanding of it in others. Also looking forward to just learning more about in general. To continue my personal ramblings, I rarely look forward to much of anything, life for me is mostly just existing, trying to gather up a tiny big of motivation to do my obligations, being enthusiastic about my work would increase my output tenfold, which is probably why this book has spoken to me so much, but I’ve been actively looking forward to each chapter and the discussions of it every week, it’s kept me going through some unpleasant times, even if I did bow out at the worst of those, it’s helped me keep things together and has always worked as motivation for me to not just give up entirely, so thank you again Edie for organising this group.

      • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        things you may not even think of as democracy in the next book

        I certainly hope so! I’ve had great success championing democracy to people by pointing how in our allegedly democratic capitalism, the workplace is a iron-fisted dictatorship, the workers have to obey the boss or else, the place people spend most of their waking hours in our western capitalist “democracy” is in no way democratic whatsoever. Really helps people start to consider things they’ve never really examined before.

        So more examples of things that we just don’t even think about being incredibly undemocratic in our own system would be very helpful!

  • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    I return, just in time for the ending! Although I have been keeping up with the chapters, I’ve been remiss in writing any comments, so I’ll try to remember them and give some brief thoughts here.

    (Edit: After having hit submit by accident before, I have now actually written something!)

    The Democratization of Science

    As someone who did a degree in a STEM subject, this chapter particularly hits me in the feelings. More than anything, it’s the sense that science is the project of the whole people, that everyone deserves and is encouraged to have an interest in it, that society owes everyone the chance to participate and that the opportunity for participation is repaid in the form of valuable knowledge - and the breaking of human records, just for the sake of it - contributed back to society and which then becomes the property of all.

    This could not be more different from my experience at a university under capitalism. I had (mostly) good professors, and I (mostly) enjoyed my classes, but over my whole time studying, there was the stifling atmosphere that all of this was not to improve me as a person, or give me the ability to contribute to real social good, but rather just so I could earn a certificate to get a higher paying job afterwards. The only point was to make me more attractive to employers, so that when I went to the market I could seek out a more premium boss to work for. And as such, the people of my cohort who I was working and studying alongside, and making friends with, would not be my comrades in pushing the limits of human knowledge, they would be my direct rivals in the competition for a job.

    Furthermore, the majority of the research projects I saw or heard about going on in the department were not pure research, or aimed at solving some practical problem facing humanity in general, but instead were partnerships with specific companies to improve some specific aspect of their product to make it more profitable. Even useful innovations to certain globally-important technologies were locked behind the fact this work was being done for the sake of one specific company, who could then hoard those advances behind intellectual property laws. In hindsight that’s completely obvious, because increasing profits is the primary function of science under capitalism, but at the time, for the younger liberal me, it was extremely disillusioning. I went in truly wanting to spend my life and talents doing something that would help society in a meaningful way, and after working and studying and sweating through exams year after year, the reward was a license to become a better class of mercenary.

    For that reason as well, it always felt like there was this pervasive air of, ultimately, indifference to whether I succeeded or not. Because I was paying the price of admission myself - already a fact making it clear that society as a whole didn’t care about me doing this - and because the rewards would only belong to me, even though individual lecturers might be passionate about their students succeeding, the institution itself understood that it was just a business and if the customer wanted to waste their product, then so be it. Compare that with the socialist scientific system’s exuberant embrace of everyone with the desire to improve their learning and advance the limits of science, as shown in this chapter - it’s so clear what an absolute waste capitalism makes of the enthusiasm and desire to do good of those trapped within it. That’s not to say it seems like the Soviet system was unconcerned with the skill of the scientists it was producing, but rather that no matter who it was that wanted to participate, they would be welcomed in and encouraged to become the best they could be - because it was in all of society’s rational material self-interest to do so!

    Reaching the hallowed halls of the academy and finding them a complete wasteland, seeing it in person and feeling that sensation viscerally, was probably the most important cornerstone of my eventual radicalization, even though it would be a long time before I had the theory and vocabulary to properly analyze my experience there. So with this chapter even more than the others, I can feel how radically different my own personal history would have been in a socialist society, in a way that’s hard not to mourn for. And to hope that some day we can bring about such a society once again.

    The Democratization of Art

    Again, I’m struck by how art is the interest and treasure of the whole of society. Under capitalism, people who want to become artists are mocked and belittled, until they become successful, at which point they are celebrated and envied. Capitalist culture is obsessed with the most successful (highest earning) singers, actors and artists, who become important public figures, even as there is a permanent undercurrent of revulsion for artists as people who don’t really do ‘real work’. And by the very nature of how storing wealth works under capitalism, even if you succeed, the greatest possible reward for creating art is… to become a capitalist. So while some artists may fight against the worst commercialization of their work, or try to use their platform for social good (usually limited to radical-liberalism at best), or choose to live more modestly or give to charity in some way or another - the intrinsic nature of capitalism punishes and suppresses any behaviour outside the path of least resistance.

    And for those who never get to be professional artists, unlike the description of Soviet society, where amateurs are encouraged to create things for a purpose, to be displayed somewhere or to liven a specific place up, so that every artwork is in some way contributing to society - or at the very least is produced under conditions of social engagement - under capitalism you either create artworks to try and sell them, or you create art just as a hobby to keep for yourself. (Or if you’re really lucky and somehow have a surplus of free time and energy, and live in the right place, you may be able to create art to share with a community - which is ultimately just an echo of the conditions of socialist art.)

    I have a hobby making small art pieces, which I do enjoy, but it’s like… I create something, I finish it, I get to enjoy it for a while, and then it just becomes this dead thing that takes up room and collects dust, which I either have to store away indefinitely, or find some way to get rid of. Sometimes I find I can’t be bothered to start something new, because after all the effort I put in, after many hours of care and work, it’s just going to end up in a box at the back of a cupboard. The art that should connect me with humanity becomes just another vector of solipsism and alienation - or, if I was really lucky and skilled, in the best case scenario, it would be another way to become a mercenary. Whereas art created under socialism is, or can be, a living thing to be enjoyed by everyone, and as this chapter shows, was clearly valued as such by Soviet society. Like, I had never considered the idea of acting in an amateur play before now, and in this life I don’t think I’m any more likely to do so now, but I did feel a sudden pang of loss for a way of relating to society I didn’t even know was closed off.

    I went a bit longer than expected, so I’ll have to continue in another part…

    • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      Interesting how your views as someone working in a scientific field mirror mine, someone working as an artist, just focused on the chapter on Soviet Science, not Art, with everything just feeling so “mercenary” as you put it, all out for personal short term gain and not about providing something unique or helpful to society. I imagine it would feel the same for any profession, I don’t think I’ve ever seen the alienation of labour laid out so well as this book has, and it hasn’t even really described it at all, it’s instead describing the opposite.

    • CascadeOfLight [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      (Real life intervened, which is why it looks like this took hours to write)

      Remaking Human Beings

      I love the very opening story of the dance troupe, it’s just a story that would so obviously never be possible in a capitalist prison state. It would be the kind of premise that could only happen in some sort of feel-good comedy movie, not in real life. And from there, the rest of the chapter makes it clear that the “Gulag” system was tantamount to prison abolition, while also setting forth an extremely clear conception of the Marxist understanding of human behaviour and ‘human nature’.

      Many other comments talked about other parts of this chapter in detail, so I will just mention a highlight for me that I didn’t see anyone else discuss - the part about the judge and the party members at a saint’s day festival (so much for the ruthless suppression of religion) collecting everyone’s knives so when they got drunk later, no one got stabbed. It’s just so pragmatic and non-punitive, in a way that anticommunist propaganda would have you believe a socialist state could never be.

      In a capitalist police state, they would either ban the festival, or ban the alcohol, or enforce a curfew, or flood the area with cops and arrest, imprison and perhaps enslave anyone they found making trouble, or just do nothing to prevent a tragedy and then mercilessly destroy anyone who in a heated moment of poor impulse control became a murderer. Or else the festival would be a private event, with paid entry and security guards standing in for the police. There could never be a scenario where the police defuse the situation in a humane and pragmatic way, with the consent and understanding of everyone involved.

      And actually, I just realized I might be skipping over the most notable part of the story, which is that the judge went and organized this himself! Could you imagine any US justice stepping down out of their courtroom throne to go out amongst the people and directly prevent crime from happening like this? To pre-emptively stop people from being criminalized in the first place? Of course not.

      Youth Set Free

      I don’t have much to say about this one, as others commented it’s particularly bittersweet knowing that all this youthful vitality and wonder was about to be spent fighting off the assault of the united capitalist world. I already said much of it in my comment on the Democratization of Science, but this chapter also hit me with the feeling of how wasted the energy of my own youth was, how completely without direction I felt until I was able to understand that that directionlessness was neither an accident, nor a fault of me as a person, but instead an inescapable feature of capitalism. One which, as the description in this chapter will attest, has not changed in nearly a hundred years.

      Despite the bittersweetness, this chapter perhaps makes me the most hopeful about the fight for a socialist world, in the way it describes how quickly a new generation can flourish in new conditions. If we struggle and win, the reward will be to see, in just ten or fifteen years, the ‘explosive joy which becomes increasingly plain in the words, the sports, the celebrations of Soviet youth’.

      New Men Emerge

      As others said, a strong ending which ties many threads together. I particularly like the explicit contrasting of the values of Soviet society and the Soviet citizen against those of the capitalists and especially the fascists. The eternal postwar liberal project is to equate fascism and communism under the umbrella of totalitarianism, so to have the subjects of fascism so specifically decried as slaves of blind obedience, in opposition to the ‘strong and original individuality’ of the Soviets, this far in advance of anything Hannah Arendt had to say, is an important and useful point.

      I also love the quote about “that ability to look on both sides of the question which intellectuals under capitalism prize as a sign of high intelligence, but which Pravda disdains as “division of personality and double-mindedness, Hamletism in romantic colors.”” Postmodernists destroyed, Zizek in absolute shambles.

      And I also love the description of the Stakhanovites. The classic anticommunist depiction, exemplified in caricature by Boxer the horse in Animal Farm, is of blunt, foolish illiterates being goaded into overworking themselves by their communist puppetmasters. Instead, here is an image of vibrant, intelligent, passionate master-craftspeople striving to become the absolute best at what they do, to break every record set before, and push and in turn be pushed by their fellows - and not by driving themselves recklessly to exhaustion, but while taking pride in their safety and efficiency. It makes me think of physical record setters like mountain climbers or arctic explorers, or, in a not entirely joking way, of the speedrunning community. So much for the idea that people would have no incentive to work in a socialist system, they were literally competing for high scores! For the love of the game! Once again, how much potential is wasted by capitalism failing to utilize the latent passion of workers?

      That also gave me a sudden thought, that Stakhanovism seems so incomprehensible to the capitalist-indoctrinated mind because labor is necessarily devalued in capitalism - it can’t be allowed to become a source of pride or identity, because that way lies class consciousness, and because capitalists would always lose at that game. You can only be passionate about becoming the best at activities that are ultimately frivolous - done for their own sake (and ideally requiring large amounts of capital), like sports, car or boat or plane racing, mountain climbing, deep sea diving, etc. And, because all work requires being exploited by a capitalist, anyone born into the capitalist world would understand that someone who voluntarily tries to work harder, let alone tries to set world-records at their job, must be a rube who’s been tricked into it (even as capitalism’s official line, the protestant work ethic, preaches exactly the same virtue).

      All in all, this book has been an incredibly valuable read for me. Even such a comparatively brief overview feels quite comprehensive, and it has filled in so many gaps in my knowledge that I never even imagined were there. I definitely felt many brainworms withering away as I read this. Although it’s bittersweet knowing all this hope and progress was about to be beaten down hard by the absolutely monstrous savagery of the capitalist world, the depths of barbarity of which I have to re-evaluate yet again, now knowing in even finer detail exactly what it was they were trying to crush… it still inspires so much hope for how much they were able to achieve in such a short time, and how much beautiful humanity those people possessed.

  • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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    Really nice chapter tying everything together. Overall, the rather dated language referring to ethnic minorities is a problem, but the actual facts on hand are endlessly useful to cite for people. I think this book is best for people that are already pro-soviet. It isn’t going to change most people’s minds, because the Soviet Union has been ran through the mud for most people. It’s like a Blackshirts and Reds for communists, which I think is super useful for giving comrades an idea of what we are fighting for.

    Also want to give thanks to comrade Edie for its work on Comrade’s Library, making this book accessible to all who want it for free, and doing the work of making the epub and running this reading circle! I cannot wait to continue next week with everyone on the theory groups and Soviet Democracy, which should provide a more intimate look at how the Soviet Union’s democrstic institutions functioned!

    order-of-lenin

    • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      6 days ago

      It isn’t going to change most people’s minds, because the Soviet Union has been ran through the mud for most people.

      I do wonder how effective it might be, since it presents a Soviet Union so different to how your average westerner is trained to imagine it, it might be shocking enough to shatter their illusions about it. Though it is likely that it would only really work for someone already sympathetic to Communism and who just needs that final push.

      • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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        Yep! For me, it has been enormously useful. Even though I was pro-soviet, I had a lot of brainworms formed by decades of propaganda. This book was incredibly refreshing, and shattered my expectations precisely because I was already pro-soviet. If I am recommending something to the average liberal, though, it’s Parenti 9 times out of 10, though the anti-PRC bit in Blackshirts and Reds does give me pause on it now considering how important our orientation towards China has become.

        A lot to think about!

        • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          Yeah, while I personally don’t like how anti-Stalin Parenti is in Blackshirts and Reds, it also works almost as a soothing balm for liberals reading it, not pushing back on their liberal understanding of socialism too much, so they don’t just fully shut down.

          though the anti-PRC bit in Blackshirts and Reds does give me pause on it now considering how important our orientation towards China has become.

          I have “Why the world needs China” sitting on my bedside table on my “reading list” so when I finally actually pick it up, if it turns out to be a good introductory text for liberals I might make a few friends read it and see how it goes.

          • jack [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            I have “Why the world needs China” sitting on my bedside table on my “reading list” so when I finally actually pick it up, if it turns out to be a good introductory text for liberals I might make a few friends read it and see how it goes.

            What makes it so great is not just the analysis of China but a fantastic up-to-date analysis of the modern global imperialist system.

          • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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            Good point as well. Parenti wrote it at a specific time, in a specific context, and it really helped make new MLs. I’m not certain of its pedagogical utility in the modern context. For China, I’m almost always recommending Roland Boer’s work, or that of Qiao Collective. I increasingly feel that books are best for cadre training and development, while articles are best for socialism-curious. Gotta test this in reality though, with book tok more people are reading, and we need good intro points.

            • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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              Yeah, I will admit I don’t really have a lot of good pro-China sources, my usual go-to has been a pseudo Parenti lecture talking about how they lifted unimaginable numbers of people out of poverty, but actual further reading for people would be very useful for sure. I might look through the Qiao Collective’s Socialism with Chinese characteristics study guide and see if there is anything useful. It’s difficult because so many people in the west would rather see China as unholy evil demon spawn rather than people, so getting someone to read anything pro-China is already a massive uphill battle.

              • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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                My go-to entry is about their poverty eradication program. Qiao Collective has this roundup that explains very clearly what happened and why. Maybe it’s just where I live, but even liberals now talk about the coming Chinese century positively, if jokingly, and if with the caveat of preferring “authoritarianism” over dying capitalism. Before getting into theory, I think it’s better to explain that China is good, and increase that leverage, before explaining why China is good.

                • Damarcusart [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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                  Yes, exactly! Just getting people to understand Chinese people are people and their government has done incredible things for their people, not without issues and setbacks, but the country is unimaginably different from just 30-40 years ago, meanwhile here in Australia very little has changed in that time except for things getting slowly worse, so pushing the idea that a government can do good for its people and we the people should be demanding that of our government goes a long way.

                  I wish I could say I’ve seen liberals jokingly talk about the Chinese century, where I live most people seem to think of China as “inferior” to Australia and they are “beneath us” and we alone could destroy them if we wanted (meanwhile they are responsible for keeping our entire economy afloat and we represent like 4% of their international trade), but I have noticed less active vitriol towards China in the last year or two, things are changing, if slowly.

  • “Strong and original individuality,” was claimed by Pravda as the basic quality of a Soviet citizen. Not the “rugged individualism” which capitalism in its early stages glorifies for its upper classes, and which sinks into gangsterism in the fascist decline.

    You could make this into a snappy 30s Soviet Meme, but also its good to see an explanation of individuality compare to individualism.

    Freedom is never absolute; it is concrete and specific.

    I don’t think that ‘freedom’ even has a ‘Western’ definition despite how often it uses that word. Its thrown around in the same vicinity as unemployment, homelessness, wars, worsening conditions of the planet and people. Strong’s explanation of the definition of freedom work really well. To be free you must be an individual; not an individual who is leashed to a society and wanting to break free rather an individual who lives and breathes their society without the concept of fear.

    The final segment of the Stakhanovites movement ending this chapter and book brings a final wave of optimism that I wish in hindsight that none of the event of the late 30s and the Great Patriotic War ever happened. In another timeline we saw peace and a socialist earth all working together yet today what we have is Capitalism decaying further and further while propping itself up on the agony of billions.

    To learn is to break things, mess up but pick yourself up, brush yourself off and analyse what went wrong. To see this at the scale of tens of millions doing this simultaneously is awe-inspiring.

    If the solar system runs down, shall we not find ways ·to give heat to our sun?

    20 years later the USSR pioneered the space exploration sending the first satellite, first man and woman into space. Maybe someday some new cosmonauts will do this.


    Reading through this book has been the first time in a long while (from my perspective) of fully studying a book. This book was really insightful into how the early USSR was like, its struggles and triumphs but importantly how it humanises the country and the socialist system. It is worth reading for everyone.

    I’m proud I have managed to read or listen the chapter every week and write my opinions in comments even if it ended up on the last day of the week. I have found that most people are reading and commenting early in the week which has felt a bit awkward when I end up commenting later in the week.

    I feel like my comments have been okay(?), I’m not well reading up compared to everyone else so I do want to work through the reading list. I haven’t at all engaged in discussion but have been reading other people’s comments at least.

    I look forward to the next book and working through the Reading List with everyone!

    • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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      I don’t think my comments have been particularly deep, I think others gave given much better input than myself. That being said, any little comment added can be helpful, not just for momentum, but to get a general idea of how useful the book is! Your comments have been very good, especially connecting the sections on justice to other writings!

  • Cowbee [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netM
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    Proposal: in the reading group post body, reference the next week’s reading as the “pre-discussion reading.” The most active discussion is on the first day, so announcing explicitly the next week’s sections and referring to them as the pre-discussion reading makes it clearer what to read to be ready to discuss each Monday.