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Duh. Get out competed bozo
If america only had a guy in office who understands, and is good at, business, then we’d be okay. /s
“We shouldn’t do business with China” is a bipartisan approach to foreign policy at this point. Like, cutting the Chinese economy off from high end processors and chipsets is a decision that goes back to the Bush 43 administration. And it’s worked, in so far as we’ve actively discouraged the largest chipmaker to sell to Chinese firms.
But the consequence has been a rapid proliferation of Chinese chipmakers and an explosion in Chinese tech R&D in the fields of chip fabrication and design. Turns out you can’t just cut 1.4B people out of a market forever. Certainly not 1.4B people with a sprawling university system and a massive home-grown tech industry hungry for microprocessors.
They make pretty good stuff, too, and it’s often more affordable. Had several Xiaomi products in the past, and so far I’m very pleased with my Huawei watch.
Officially, sure. But we know for a fact massive shipments of Nvidia’s workstation graphics cards have been coming to China for a while. So good job making it slightly more expensive for Chinese companies, I guess?
Sure. Second hand with a commensurate markup.
But, at this point, is China importing more GPUs than it exports? Having a hard time finding the numbers. But I wouldn’t be surprised if Nvidia is facing the same problem in a couple of years that US car manufacturers are facing today - Chinese competitor products selling for 1/5th the price of the US models globally, while the US manufacturers complain about raw materials constraints and labor shortages that Chinese firms don’t grapple with.
Oh, that will definitely happen in the near future. At least one Chinese company is already making solid GPUs, but with terrible drivers. Once they work on the software side, they should be viable for everyday use. Probably no competition for a 5080 or 5090, but lower models at half the price.
Probably no competition for a 5080 or 5090
Don’t blink or you’ll miss it when it comes.
No Chinese leather jackets for Jensen. :(
The upside of living in a fantasy world like trump does is that you can fuck around all you want and everybody else finds out. How long has trump been in Brazil?
I have no love for the Chinese Government, but boy do I hate American oligarchs more.
Poor fella. Put nvidia on food stamps I guess.
Chinese AI labs kinda seem like a plot twist in LLM evolution. Their models are quite capable now. They’re not at the levels of American labs’ flagship models yet, but the gap has been narrowing quite a lot.
When OpenAI and Anthropic models are only marginally better, but much pricier, then I would think they’ll gradually shed users (followed by investors).
Ironically, I could imagine a possibility of Nvidia “saving” American AI. If they can take the lead with Nemotron (in like a “post-OpenAI/Anthropic” future when open-source models dominate), then maybe they can survive on chip sales… Though they’d probably have to compete with Chinese chips at that point.
Chinese Big Tech isn’t really known for innovation, they take existing tech and push to make it more efficient by just throwing people at the problem. It’s basically because they have a culture where critical thinking is not welcome. Makes it difficult to think outside the box. It’s why they still haven’t gotten an EUV machine out of the prototyping phase
Their only real innovative industry is their battery industry.
This is a racist fairy tale that will get you pwned.
This is the same racist bs we told ourselves about the Japanese and then the Koreans. Obviously only Americans have the Innovation Gene
Chinese Big Tech isn’t really known for innovation
Innovation under Pressure: China’s Semiconductor Industry at a Crossroads
For the first time among those watching these issues closely, the technological “choke point” strategy adopted by U.S. authorities across the late 2010s and early 2020s has now been shown to have failed, as Chinese government and R&D officials, as well as key state-backed and private sector firms, have been able to respond to the challenge forcefully and effectively. Leading the response are key policymakers: Vice Premier Ding Xuexiang, and the semiconductor team at the National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC), overseen by Vice Minister Xiangli Bin. A new AI-focused group at the NDRC overseen by Vice Minister Huang Ru is also increasingly important, as semiconductor and AI-related industry policies increasingly dovetail.
…
Leading domestic foundry SMIC, for example, has faced pressure to manufacture Huawei’s most advanced chip designs by stretching existing foreign equipment to its limits. This includes deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography systems supplied by the Dutch firm ASML, which are being pushed beyond their intended capabilities, often resulting in low and inconsistent yields. The urgency stems from Huawei’s need for system-on-chip (SoC) processors for its consumer devices—especially smartphones, as well as for advanced AI chips in its Ascend 9XX series.
Remind me, again. Who else was experimenting with deep ultraviolet (DUV) lithography at scale prior to 2024? Who else was a front-runner in developing and deploying system-on-a-chip or AI embedding?
That’s before you get into the EV sector, SMRs for bulk shipping, or the Chinese airplane and aerospace development.
India, Korea, and Japan have all been in a scramble to keep up with the Chinese industrial programs. Meanwhile the US/EU don’t even seem to bother trying.
This is moronic and entirely divorced from the facts. Look at key players in the Chinese LLM space like Deepseek: it’s a tiny team of less than 200 people, building models that rival US tech firms with thousands. They make breakthroughs by pushing research first and intensive planning, rather than brute force. These are immensely innovative and creative teams with a great approach to R&D and engineering above all else
Well…those engineers were all training in the USA at MIT, Stanford, etc. but got the boot in 2025.
This wouldn’t really negate what I’m talking about in terms of their organizational advantages or the argument I’m making about them not just “throwing people” at the problem. But also, I don’t see any evidence that this is true; it seems their hiring strategy is to grab researchers that recently graduated from top Chinese universities as their talent
As far as I understand it is decently true, but not to the extent that they would be incapable of doing what they’re achieving. Either way you’re right, it doesn’t refute your claims in any way - those researchers are still doing work in China for Chinese companies, regardless of where they got their education.
They paid for this. They bribed and colluded and this is what they got.
4D chess6D cheeseUh wait uh Mr Jacket Clown Man, wasn’t this kind of your plan?
You… you’re on the advisory panel.
For AI policy.
… ?
In the future, memory will cost nothing because we will just assume no human beings have any.
- Mr Jacket Clown Man, at some point, presumably.
Absolutelly, these are the consequences of Jensen Huang’s “strategy” and he’s just doing the usual trick of such inept high level managers when the mid and long-term consequences of their strategical ineptitude catch up with them of trying to distance himself from the consequences of his success in shaping American policy (by, lets be fair, just following other inept CEOs of other large Tech companies in the US).
IMHO the single biggest external visible marker that a CEO is strategically inept (i.e. incompetent at the core skill that differentiates mid from upper management) is how talkie-talkie (call it “salesmanship”, if you’re being generous) is their “solution” for everything.
I really hope NVIDIA and its shareholders suffer hard for giving the job of a strategist to a salesman.
This is what happens when there are zero reliable reporters to call bullshit, CEOs make shit up and no-one checks their work. It’s just ‘Jensen Huang says’.
Shocker, cut China off from US designed (not manufactured) chips and they make their own (capitalist competition, remember that old thing), still coming up to speed, but soon, and I’d like some DDR5 (or 6) SamA you dick.
The only thing at play for these pricks is the ‘CUDA moat’ (and the lack of effort from AMD’s RocM, also, you wouldn’t believe how amenable that [ironically] is to LLM coding), and a few hardware tricks (it’s just compute, catch up will happen), but if there’s someone outside your duopoly that dog won’t continue to hunt. Bad thing when a vasty majority of US GDP is AI BS. Shame you’ve got an idiot rampaging through the world markets for a relative pittance (but actual fortune) from insider trading. Who would have thought that’d go badly long term.
Back to weapons for you, and your military doesn’t know how to make a cheap (anything) drone.
Shame you’ve got an idiot rampaging through the world markets for a relative pittance (but actual fortune) from insider trading. Who would have thought that’d go badly long term.
Ironically, it may actually be Trump who brings about the rapid global adoption of EVs and renewable energy because of his stupid war with Iran and his tariffs. The rest of the world is fed up with having to rely on fossil fuels and they are dramatically ramping up both EV adoption as well as renewable energy.
I get the feeling that the US and Russia will be the last countries to fully adopt electric vehicles.
Meanwhile Trump is paying companies in the US to shutter wind turbine projects.
Yah, I think of it as Trump’s own goal.
Environmental progress through massive incompetence, ego and fraud. Actually rather a nice capstone to Pax Americana.
And American attitude is turning the world away from them. If China comes up with good chips, I think they have a huge market. People dont trust US technology now.
Huawei made excellent laptops until US shut them down. Its always the US. And they are always spreading fear about China spying, while having backdoors into American technology themselves.
I’m thinking that there is not a single American strategy to try and keep ahead of China which is not some form of bullshit, be it the “scare” of “Chinese backdoors in Tech” to try and convince other countries not to buy Chinese Tech or the desperate, desperate, oh so desperate attempt at turning into a Future-defining Tech an American-dominated subset of ML (that’s been called AI and treated as if it’s genuinelly intelligent) being propelled by America’s until recently highly successful Tech Investment environment, all of which failing because of that kind of ML’s inherent limitations and because said Tech Investment environment is nowadays mostly Fraud so overpromised and kept pushing as “the Future” well beyond the point it proved its inherent limits what’s de facto a failed prototype.
I have no doubt in my mind that America, right now, has failed to grab the Future and is already fading into irrelevance, and this not even a Trump thing even though he definitelly expedited it.
I just hope the corrupt crooks that pass for politicians in this side of the Atlantic (Europe) don’t drag us down with America.
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Lets not forget Moore’s law is dead. There are no more die shrinks to be had. We’re measuing gates with atoms.
The dog is doomed.
Good thing you spend last year sucking his little mushroom, Jensen.
All this means is that China is now spinning up their own lithography machines so you’ll eventually be able to buy a 512GB stick of DDR5 on Alibaba for $8 + $20 shipping.
insha’Allah.
ASML makes the machines and they’re restricted from exporting to China. Does China have the capability to make comparable ones itself?
do you think they won’t soon?
how long is Europe going to continue to do US policy just to screw China while being directly threatened and witnessing the US lose a war in Iran?
Europe can’t do shit unless we cut ties with US tech. Reality is, we can’t antagonize Pedonald too much, or he will cut us off. Companies and governments are still too dependent on Microsoft and other US tech. Without access to that, they would be fcked.
A lot of companies make lithography machines, ASML just makes the best ones.
As of 2023, China has domestic companies who have made 28nm process nodes: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/chinas-first-28nm-capable-scanner-to-be-delivered-by-end-of-2023
This was top of the line around 2010. So in consumer tech terms: Apple’s A7 SoC (iPhone 5S, iPad Air), Intel Sandy Bridge/AMD Bristol Ridge and DDR3 RAM .
They have better machines in production, they just cannot manufacturer them domestically. Using those machines they’re producing:
- 14nm (2014-2019 era, Intel Broadwell-Coffee Lake, Ryzen 1000/2000, DDR4), Mass produced by SMIC
- 7nm (2018-2021, Apple A12/A13, AMD Ryzen 3000/5000, faster DDR4), Limited production at SMIC
- 5nm (2020-2023 iPhone 12-15, AMD Zen4, DDR5-4800), currently in development/low yields ~20%
They do not have any EUV (sub-5nm) capacity domestically.
China isn’t that far behind current generation chips and most people are probably using devices with 14/7nm chips in them due to the AI bubble eating up all of the newest process chips and driving prices out of reach of consumers.
Those are the entirelly the predictable consequences of America getting away with blocking the sale of such machines to China.
What the fuck did those strategically inept morons expected: that a country the size of China which trains TONS of Engineers would in an area were progress has actually slowed down a lot just give up and go “yeah, we’ll yield to the will of America and accept that our future is making plastic gadgets” rather than try to catch up to a competition that’s barelly moving forward???
Maybe the brainrot of Racism and Nationalism made those acephalic idiots think that Chinese are somehow inherently inferior to “our people” and couldn’t possibly figure out by themselves how to progress in the area of chip making.
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Bullshit. They are just funneling the sales through other countries to bypass export control. Oligarch just trying to make false numbers to pump up “potential” future market gains for stock manipulation.
A lot is based in Singapore. There was a story a few days ago about how China nixed the sale of a Singapore-based AI company to Meta.
It wasn’t really Singapore-based; the Chinese company relocated to Singapore to circumvent the Chinese regulations on sales to the US, that’s why they put a stop to it
Good.
I hope he trips over a curb and shatters his mandible.
