Keep fighting the good fight, man. I’ve given up on getting Lemmy atheists to abandon any but the most insane of positions (and even then they dig in their heels half the time).

Or any sort of American-based religion tbh. Christianity (the rites and added Roman things, not the supposed core of Jesus’ teachings) is a mess in itself, but then you have Evangelicals and megachurches and whatever other crazy and distinctively American branches they have over there that I’m not surprised that’s their only understanding of religion. Religion is about self-control, everything else is wind.

At least the Mormons are basically communists. Insular, tribe-only, intolerant communists but communists none the less.

I like your example about foolish management, and you’re right in that’s what you’ll get when you “measure for holiness.” Hypocrites and holier-than-thous galore.

However, and I can only speak from a Christian experience, this is why “works based salvation” is not what is taught by Jesus Himself.

What you speak of with “How many of these laws did you follow enough to get a ticket to heaven?” is Hollywood theology at best, and not at all Biblical.

Numerous times He stresses doing good works in secret, and not to show off to others. (If you get attention for it, that’s your petty little reward, basically.)

A righteous life inspires good works naturally, and the Law makes sure we should never forget that none of us are perfect, therefore we are called to forgive others the way we’d wish to be forgiven.

We are not called to judge others. If you judge others, you’d best be ready to submit to being judged by the same metric. (And will likely be found wanting.)

I too, am I weary and sick of these religious cults, who want to wear the funniest big hats and stand on the highest podiums to look down their nose at all the lesser-thans. Surely, they’ve “already gotten their reward”, and those who use faith to mislead and abuse others do not know their God, and He will not remember them.

I cannot speak for other religions but for Islam that is completely false.

Intention is crucial to the evaluation of an action. An outwardly good deed with bad intention is worth nothing, and a bad deed done out of good intention will see forgiveness in its punishment.

See for instance: https://islamweb.net/en/article/156996/the-intention-is-the-foundation-of-every-action

A famous hadith (saying by the Prophet, blessings and peace be upon him) goes as follows (translation of the meaning):

The first of men (whose case) will be decided on the Day of Judgment will be a man who died as a martyr. He shall be brought (before the Judgment Seat). Allah will make him recount His blessings (i. e. the blessings which He had bestowed upon him) and he will recount them (and admit having enjoyed them in his life).
(Then) will Allah say: What did you do (to requite these blessings)?
He will say: I fought for Thee until I died as a martyr.
Allah will say: You have told a lie. You fought that you might be called a" brave warrior". And you were called so.
(Then) orders will be passed against him and he will be dragged with his face downward and cast into Hell.

Then will be brought forward a man who acquired knowledge and imparted it (to others) and recited the Qur’an. He will be brought And Allah will make him recount His blessings and he will recount them (and admit having enjoyed them in his lifetime). Then will Allah ask: What did you do (to requite these blessings)?
He will say: I acquired knowledge and disseminated it and recited the Qur’an seeking Thy pleasure. Allah will say: You have told a lie. You acquired knowledge so that you might be called" a scholar," and you recited the Qur’an so that it might be said:" He is a Qari" and such has been said.
Then orders will be passed against him and he shall be dragged with his face downward and cast into the Fire.

Then will be brought a man whom Allah had made abundantly rich and had granted every kind of wealth. He will be brought and Allah will make him recount His blessings and he will recount them and (admit having enjoyed them in his lifetime).
Allah will (then) ask: What have you done (to requite these blessings)?
He will say: I spent money in every cause in which Thou wished that it should be spent.
Allah will say: You are lying. You did (so) that it might be said about (You):" He is a generous fellow" and so it was said.
Then will Allah pass orders and he will be dragged with his face downward and thrown into Hell.

certainly numbers are in favor of it. I just think there’s a little more to it than that. Osama B’ for instance wasn’t born, he was made with American funding to fight communists for decades. and he existed in a time before the current zeitgeist of manufactured consent.

just sayin, I think it’s highly likely the Islam religion will embrace jihad as a more abstract spiritual vibe before they actually follow through on something like that again. like how leftists now do revolution as more of an affectation or how christians do thoughts and prayers to fix injustices in the world. as it was written in the ancient texts “do it or ‘no balls’”

perhaps you’re right. I’m struggling with the mental justification of allowing myself to think that anyone but Americans can rid ourselves of him. but who knows. maybe it’s okay to think that someone else will do it. here’s hoping allah’s greatest defender is out there somewhere, may he have the most violent brainworms that he needs for the Holy Justice 🙏 or whatever

The Bible specifically allows killing as an act of war and considers it different from murder. The protagonists of the book also steal stuff all the time.

These commandments are for controlling behavior inside a society, not outside of it.

Trump is a senile and a deeply unserious person. His existence makes me believe that souls might exist because he very much seems like a person without one. He doesn’t think about his actions deeply which is why I believe that if he suddenly turned religious, I don’t think much would change.