Context: Toby Fox says there wont be translations for Undertale or Deltarune after Latam fans asked for them
https://bsky.app/profile/tobyfox.undertale.com/post/3mia4smxehk2a
You know it’s a leftist meme because there’s a huge wall of barely readable text
I think this is a cop out to be quite honest.
Just pick some translators, work with them and acknowledge that some things won’t be perfect because language barriers exist. You could even communicate that to the fans when they select a language in the game with a message popup!
Seems like dipshittery because he doesn’t want to do it and only did the Japanese one because he has a particular personal interest in Japan. The rest is work that he doesn’t want to do and he’s hiding behind this as an excuse not to do it.
not much social capital to gain from Latam unlike Japan so he doesnt care
The rest is work that he doesn’t want to do and he’s hiding behind this as an excuse not to do it.
Why not just say that? He’s a video game guy, not an elected politician. That explanation looks like more work than it would take to work with some guy who wants to translate for you.
The explanation is like a week of effort and damage control compared to weeks if not months of translation work.
As for why? Guilt? Knowing deep down he’s letting people down but still not wanting to do it?
It’s totally bullshit saying he encourages people to do it for free instead while simultaneously not wanting translation to be bad.
Seems like dipshittery because he doesn’t want to do it and only did the Japanese one because he has a particular personal interest in Japan. The rest is work that he doesn’t want to do and he’s hiding behind this as an excuse not to do it.
I seriously doubt his Japanese is good enough to evaluate Japanese literary works. His Japanese is probably on the level of “Boku wa Toby Fox desu.” He just needs to hire reputable translators, and if too many people complain about how the translations suck, he just needs to hire different translators to fix the mess.
Nah I think he’s pretty fluent. Sakurai doesn’t speak English much at all but Toby has had dinner with him hashing something out for a new game, I don’t think that would work if he couldn’t speak Japanese. He spends a serious amount of time over in Japan too, the dude wants to be Japanese.
Toby’s the one with the dog over his face.
He did an interview with Yoko Shimomura in Japanese a few years ago if you’d like to judge his Japanese language skills yourself.
It’s kinda silly reasoning, but at the end of the day he doesn’t owe us his labor. I’m glad he’s encouraging communities to localize it on their own, at least.
but at the end of the day he doesn’t owe us his labor
but he sure does love the free labour he receives from the fan translations that attract more fans tho
So? Is he supposed to tell fans “I don’t want to translate it so you shouldn’t do it either” or what?
I think it’s more that he’s obsessed with having absolute control over the translation, rather than just trusting professionals to adapt the core idea across different languages
One could argue that in a century, his work couldn’t be experienced anymore anyway because the culture and the language will have evolved from what he intended
I mean it sounds like it’s already been translated unofficially anyways, so all an official translation would be is him putting his seal of approval on it, which he doesn’t want to do because he can’t evaluate a translation in anything other than japanese.
Why should someone be obligated to compensate another for work they never asked for?
So? Do you want him to exploit more underpaid localization teams to increase his revenue instead? Fan patches are free. They only work with specific versions of games, and the easiest way to do that is by pirating them.
He’s giving the Latam community a free pass on stealing his shit, because he doesn’t want to do more work, or underpay someone else to do it for him.
Bu bu bu, Poor Little Petit Bourgeoisie Tobias Fox is forced to exploit and underpaid a localization team if he ever wants to translate his game into another language and share his work with his fanbase from other countries, just like he exploited and underpaid the japanese translation team apparently.
Just say you dont care
I don’t care that your treats aren’t presented to you the way you want them.
He’s contracting people (exploitation), using AI (set the world on fire for slop, neat), putting in personal work (he doesn’t owe you anything), or giving you a free pass to transform his work for free (also exploitation, I guess?). There’s no win condition for him here.
We’re never going to see eye to eye on this, so let’s agree to disengage and call it a day.
Why would he need to underpay them? He’s got no shortage of money, does he?
Over 5 million undertale sales and 3 million on deltarune btw, still need to underpay a localization team
That’s fine I guess, if he doesn’t want to sign his name to a translation he can’t actually understand that’s way different than discouraging localization entirely. Maybe allowing localization teams to get some funding would be good. Even if they’re still “unofficial”
What!? An auteur has weird hangups about their work? Say it ain’t so!
It’s because, if I release something official, I want it to match my vision. I was only able to do this for the Japanese version because I know Japanese myself, and I worked very closely with our brilliant translator to thoroughly check the text.
lol
I think this is a very understandable and realistic approach to art in the digital era, and this backlash is honestly pretty fitting for a culture that doesn’t want to treat video games as art, instead only wanting to consume them as a product.
are book not art because they are translated?, are movies not art because they get dubs and subtitles? video games are not special
What I mean by distinguishing art from product here is the desire to strip out human intention. Undertale and Deltarune were intentionally designed by Toby Fox, not merely built up as a collection of gameplay elements chosen for marketability. As such, the writing carries specific authorial intent. In the Japanese translation, which was done in cooperation with another person, the bilingual Toby Fox was able to ensure this intent remained. In other languages, this is just not possible, and so they will never get an 『Official』translation unless Toby Fox learns another language. However, art, especially in the digital era, once it has entered into the view of the public, carries with it the inevitability of transformative works. The only limit is the law, and Toby Fox clearly states his support for unofficial translation rather than being a litigious landlord of ideas. What the fans are demanding in an official stamp of approval on translations he can’t functionally oversee is the transformation of “Toby Fox” from a name of an author into a brand.
Unofficial translations are great (sarcasm) for people who own consoles where modifying the game files is not allowed or for people who don’t know how to obtain those translations in the first place, and for that, community sourced translations are now in competition with each other. You speak about art in the digital age but these are also these considerations as well. The official stamp means that the translations are shipped to everyone and meet a baseline level of professionalism.
Ultimately it’s his decision to maintain UT/DR as his auteur works but this attitude towards internationalization is still disappointing.
Books that are translated usually are published through a publisher. Autors are familiar working with an editor, they learn to trust other people with their work. And I’m sure it’s not easy all the time either.
How is this a counterpoint?
Generally speaking it seems people consider being able to read a book in its own language a positive. Meanwhile much of the backlash to this seems to come from people who can read English just fine but want to specifically be catered to in their own language for what appears to me as mostly consumer concerns. Such as being a big market that has to pay relatively highly for these products but don’t get specific translations.
Minecraft translations for example has a history of slurs hidden in languages
But that was because they were entirely community sourced iirc
I know Japanese myself
“Ohio! Boku wa Toburu Fakusu desu. Nippon ga daisuki desu. Nani Nippon ga daisuki desu ka?”
dumb perfectionism holds yet another artist back. I don’t think Toby is lazy or malicious here, I think he really believes what he’s saying, but what he’s saying is dumb.
honestly I was penning a defense of this on “this work fundamentally relies on specific presentation and double meanings” grounds but I realized midway through typing it that it’s a very silly problem because the solution to this is:
- hire someone fluent and proficient in both languages, someone with Spanish literature degree would be the type of person you’re looking for here
- have them act as an Official Liaison between you and the localization company
- ask in abstract “can you convey this, is there things we can do with this idea” with the company
- get your Official Liaison to proofread it and describe what they are reading in detail to you and also loop them in on it and ask them if there’s anything they can think of that they could be doing to make the translation utilize its language better.
- if you’re still uncomfortable rubber-stamping a translation you can’t read, call it the Toby-Supervised Semi-Canon Spanish Translation or something. You know how to disambiguate where needed! If people still say “well I want a canon translation,” that’s where you can comfortably draw the line and say “it is my personal creative philosophy to not rubber-stamp things I cannot understand” because at that point it is pedantry.
the second, more PR-centric solution to this flare-up (aka, if your art brain still freaks out at the first option) is to toss money at the fans who localized your game for free, like “Sorry, I’m really really really not comfortable releasing my art in languages I can’t understand, it’s a personal creative neurosis. I really appreciate what you are doing, I just cannot officially rubber-stamp a translation, but here’s some funds roughly-derived from the steam sales in LatAm countries you helped bring my game to. Thank you.” It will, to adopt a cynical outlook, immediately create backlash to the backlash and temper future reactions. Crisis averted, people don’t attribute your creative neuroses to racism. Just be sure to also be like “no, don’t harass them please, it’s highkey my bad and I wanted to make amends because I was being stubborn, it makes me feel worse if you take this out on them” if you want to at least somewhat avert the rabid counterswing of anglophone fans that is the price of this option.
I think it’s a bit silly on both sides, it’s not like unofficial fan translations are an invalid way of playing a game (e.g. playing Mother 3 in English), but it’s more silly on Toby’s side because it’s not a binary choice and you can take steps to preserve your integrity to the best of your ability while broadcasting I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE WORDS HERE THIS IS NOT EXACTLY CANON. I can empathize with his reservations as someone who has her own creative-control neuroses, but you have to recognize that it’s going to rub people the wrong way if you double-down publicly on not supporting their language.
Oh, his work in based on wordplay and double meanings?
Wait until bro learns about French plays.
Toby fox trade offer:
Toby fox loses: being able to translate his dozens of anagrams perfectly (ralsei is an anagram for Israel type shit), having slightly awkward dialogue, maybe a translation gaffe that has to be patched out later that becomes a funny fandom in-joke.
Toby fox gains: having an entire continent and then some be able to enjoy his work without being subjected to Japanese and USian cultural imperialism.
The community is already obsessing over minor differences in the Japanese translation. Adding additional, less accurate official ones would be absolute armageddon on the fandom.
Yeah, I kind of get him. I only know English and not Japanese, but I swear for every other localised game I like, the discussion is “look at how ass this localisation is, they added a Spongebob reference, the characters sound more sexual to spell out the jokes”
And I don’t even know which side I stand on, because I like some national jokes in Polish translations, but then also got ticked off the other day when I saw very slight, unharmful word changes in Slay the Princess. (coldly beautiful -> exceptionally beautiful, and because it’d be hard to translate coldly anyways)
Just hire a translation team ffs it’s not that hard and it’s less expensive nowadays because of AI
Edit: I’m not suggesting they use AI. I’m saying that translation teams have lowered their prices as a result of it
AI
It’s because, if I release something official, I want it to match my vision. I was only able to do this for the Japanese version because I know Japanese myself, and I worked very closely with our brilliant translator to thoroughly check the text.
tl;dr he’s a weeaboo and not a latinoboo
I know Japanese myself, and I worked very closely with our brillant translator
He’s literally saying that he worked with a professional translator and when you’re translating you must adapt to the local culture to land the joke. So I don’t understand the problem
Yes and if he worked with a translator in any other language he would not be able to have that level of involvement.
Oh my fucking god this entire argument is absolutely insufferable
Oh shit I just made a post about this and now saw this here lol. Honestly his response is not even that bad, just work with some translation team dude. I know people that cannot experience these games without localization, it fucking sucks, fortunately we have fan translations but still. What really pisses me off is the Undertale fandom on R*ddit being a bunch of bootlickers.
What really pisses me off is the Undertale fandom on R*ddit being a bunch of bootlickers
Just a reminder that the Undertale subreddit is a bunch of fashy liberal Zionist treatlerites.
If hexbears are taking cues from these types of people, that paints a very worrying but consistent image.
I never knew that, wtf
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There are a few bootlickers here too sadly
The only way for Latam to win is to pirate the game, use the fan translation, and stop giving him capital by buying the merch
Since he didn’t invest in the region, he has no right to their money
Besides, even if he paid for a translation, the exchange is still unequal, Toby gets all the money at the end of the day, while the translators only get a small fraction once
Besides, even if he paid for a translation, the exchange is still unequal, Toby gets all the money at the end of the day, while the translators only get a small fraction once
that’s one way to structure the deal, but you’re not obligated to do the most exploitative thing.
Considering the amount of people who still bootlick Neil Druckmann even after he was called out for his Zionism just because he was able to do some incredible rainbow-washing in TLOU, I won’t be surprised if people also start showing their asses and get incredibly reactionary towards Latam due to their loyalty to Toby Fox
Thanks for pointing this out. I locked your thread and redirected conversation over here, so we aren’t overlapping points or talking past each other.
imagine if every artist/writer/developer would follow the same principles as Toby Fox, how isolated the world would become
they don’t call it a language barrier for nothing.
Out of context but why is the undertale community so insufferable? It couldn’t have happened without a reason right??? Someone please tell me why
tumblr sexyman posterboys draw insufferable people to a fandom like shit draws flies. i’m a pretty big UT/DR fangirl myself, but every time i stick my head out of my himejoshi bubble i get reminded just how awful things actually are.
LMFAOOOO
“Toby fox when asked when he’ll do a Spanish translation of Undertale and Deltarune”
“I’m xenophobic”
Now that I have localized this meme to burgerland, it has lost its original authorial intent and is thus a worse and compromised way of experiencing this meme.
Noo, not all memes are supposed to be translated and shared
Bwahahahaha I am the evil localization hamster, ive come for your language specific coding and ready to turn it into mass market appeal.
The incredibly deep and difficult dialogue of deltarune cannot possibly be translated into another language (theres also an among us reference)
Terrible damage control lmao just don’t feed the trolls. Now everyone has to engage with what was just X the everything app drama.
