- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
- cross-posted to:
- chapotraphouse@hexbear.net
You must log in or # to comment.
DNC: Um, aktuly, the Dems are running a candidate who has repeatedly endorsed a 10-12% reduction in genocide over 30 years. What have you lefty shits ever done?
DNC: OH SO YOU HATE JEWS, DO YOU?! WELL I’M GOING TO VOTE FOR DONALD TRUMP!
Dems are running a candidate who has repeatedly endorsed a 10-12% reduction in genocide over 30 years.
With absolutely no enforcement mechanism and no penalty for failing to meet that goal, naturally.
Stop lying that Mamdani is anywhere remotely leftist:
- ICE still has deathcamps in NY
- Landlords exist
- Taxes
- Food & Housing isn’t free
- Pedophiles haven’t been guillotined
- Abolished prisons
- Eliminated PDs.
- Apartheid Religions remain
- etc. etc…
A mayor can’t really do most of these, but also I mean yeah he’s a demsoc; it’s up to the leftists on the streets to force him to do good things.
THANK YOU. I THOUGHT I WAS IN /c/Progressive Politics FOR A SECOND. Do 24 people need to read theory or some💩?
Epitome of letting perfect be the enemy of good
Wait, what in miran senat is “leftist” about a Muslim Yorker that is working within a system‽
🔗
This right here is why I’m not convinced any politician would ever pass a leftist purity test.
What’s the rightist purity test?
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
’cause you downvoted my comment. I do plenty of black anarchism, twat.
The whole world doesn’t want to
Stop digressively victimizing your inaction, lib.
Oof. Try the decaf, bud.
If America’s mental healthcare was a person, it’d look just like this. I hope you get the help you quite obviously require.
🇺🇲 Doesn’t have healthcare. What kind of quip is this when there are deathcamps to demolish?
You’re gonna add a lack of reading comprehension to that already impressive resumé of yours? I’m not mad, I’m impressed.
I’d like to ask what is the color of the sky in the land where a mayor of a singular city has command over the federal government…?
The fascist* government he serves under*:
Red with a white dot and a black sun.
🔗And do unicorns still populate this land of make believe?
Impotent rage will never not be funny lol
?
And the dnc trash is also pushing moderates.
We don’t want fucking moderates! We don’t want more status quo losers afraid to rock the boat and gasp actually improve the citizens’ lives.
Tell that to primary voter they seem to disagree with you.
You mean the primary voters who chose Bernie over Hillary, but were undercut by secret DNC insiders? I remember that quite well.
By undercut you mean outvoted, right?
DNC: “That’s it, our candidate now supports the trans genocide too!”
Conceding to fascism is the only way to defeat fascists!
And other quotes from people who don’t realise they’re fascist tools.
people who don’t realise they’re fascist tools.
People who absolutely do realize that they’re fascist tools and love every second of it.
Former liberal here. I always felt I had a more wonkish bent, that pragmatism needs to be more front and center in politics.
But if I’m now in the leftist camp, it’s not like Dems are going to go anywhere but the way of the whigs if they don’t take some actual stances. They’ve lost all imagination. You can’t win on damage control.
At this point the wonkish pragmatism is that they need to be more progressive and actually take stances on shit. It’s clearly what works.
It’s just that at this point the DNC doesn’t care about winning anymore
You can’t win on damage control
No you can’t, but you can lose the fuck out of refusing to do damage control. That’s where we are right now.
Stand up a real left candidate. Get greater than 50% of the vote’s worth of people engaged enough to go vote and write in.
Refusing the DNC without putting in something that works is no different than voting RNC.
SO PUT SOMETHING IN THAT WORKS.
A percentage of Democrat voters didn’t even know Biden dropped out so had no idea who Harris was. I think asking that kind of person to be engaged with politics more readily leading a horse to water.
I think asking that kind of person to be engaged with politics more readily leading a horse to water.
I think that speaks to democrats’ uselessness at getting their message out.
DNCs are most certainly not on the left, they never were, i dare say it they are REPUBLICAN rejects. aside from a few of them. center right is the parties main stance on most things. They are the defense while the gop is the spear. its too keep minority groups(women, pocs, lgbtq) from gaining significant support and power and overtaking the party from the status quo.
If you erased Trump and the Republican party tomorrow, Democrats would change their platform to accommodate their corporate masters immediately.
They used to be our “labor party”, how did that pan out? Unions are now down to 10%, and most of those are ironically cops and government employees. Unions were over 40% of workforce in the 1970s. Are Ds really that incompetent at opposition to Republicans? I don’t think it’s incompetence.
Minimum wage is seven dollars and change an hour; where in the USA is that a “living wage”, able to to feed and house a family of four (what the minimum wage is for)?. Maybe in Mississippi you can get by on that with roommates and no kids or even a freaking dog.
Good job
Unions were over 40% of workforce in the 1970s.
Industrial workers and in general employees of big companies subject to constant scrutiny can unionize more easily. So much of that is not due to politics other than moving industries abroad.
No, it’s really politics.
Did you forget what happened in the 80s to air traffic controllers? And what has happened repeatedly since then?
It’s 100% politics, as looking at any other country with unions CLEARLY demonstrates.
Who told you this tripe? Don’t listen to them. See for yourself
Removed by mod
The candidates acceptable to leftists are unacceptable to the DNC.
Removed by mod
The US Empire isn’t democratic, revolution is the solution.
I have enough time to do both, thanks. I am not content to just sit around and do nothing but punch down until election day and happily vote for GOP-lite every fucking time.
No, you’d rather pre-complain about a choice that you can actively influence and hasn’t happened yet.
Literally complaining about actively influencing said choice using memery
Remembers bernie sanders. Yeah I don’t believe you. Different wings of the same bird.
I haven’t seen one yet that I really like, but it’s still 3 years out. This is the best time to talk about what you do or don’t like about a candidate or policy, and the worst time to settle.
Not “someone”. It has to be the DNC. And it need to show me the text where it broke up with Israel. And it needs to apologize to Bernie. Also I will still not like its candidate.
If I tried to promote a candidate on my own or talked to any other org, than DNC would think I wasn’t serious about how much I’m not going to vote for its candidate.
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Source?
I think they’d get banned if they posted a picture of their ass.
Fair, lol
Removed by mod
You’ll get there someday, so long as no one takes the child locks off the sink cabinets.
Removed by mod
Incredible, pivoting from me asking for a source that leftists are a right-wing conspiracy theory to transphobia. Fuck off.
Removed by mod
No you
Removed by mod
Dumb fucks are people who have no other arguments than “vote blue no matter who” and “we told you so” or “you’re a russian troll if you don’t support our version of genocide”
See, how braindead that sounds?
You fuckwits would vote for Trump if he ran from DNC, because you tell yourself you’re so good at spotting “propaganda”, but eat up all the propaganda from your side.
You dimwits wouldn’t see you’re repeating propaganda by the DNC, if they hit you with a truck.
Fediverse isn’t the reddit echo chamber you circlejerk on one side anymore.
Of course being pro genocide lost Harris votes. The DNC is fine with Republicans (including Trump) winning so long as they can preclude the left, which is the actual purpose of the Democratic party. Most of the base will happily be useful idiots and spend their energy punching left rather than allow any criticism of the party, all the while calling the left naive and blaming them for losing elections.
Deleted by moderator
the brave pro genocide democrat lol, you people deserve a century of humiliation
Deleted by moderator
Deleted by moderator
Calls others bots, cant imagine people being able to do more than 2 things at the same time.
Blue MAGA proving they arent too different from their brothers in red
Deleted by moderator
This response keeps killing me inside. I’m about to commit Aaron Bushnell.
Removed by mod
My impression is that what should be simple (always “genocide no”) gets much more mealy-mouthed (e.g. “I’m totally pro Israel…but maybe let’s rein in the genocide…oh no I don’t mean Israel shouldn’t have the right to defend itself!") precisely when anyone who wishes to do good by getting elected is confronted with the reality that there’s a rampaging nationalist organization sandbagging and bullying candidates, promoting others for policy favors and effectively holding big chunks of the electorate hostage in elections.
In practice, that means when I see otherwise good candidates use their talking points or be evasive and spineless on the topic of Israel, I’m quicker to think that they might simply have chosen a different battle, than to think they actually believe that there’s nothing wrong.
More simply, if standing up to the nationalist bully will almost certainly end their career/role/office before they even had a chance to begin, how many do you think will divert from the issues they entered politics for just to be the one to take out the bully? I’m guessing it’s a small number.
So while I do see it as cowardly on a personal level, and personally I’d prefer to quit politics than to get pushed around and just hold my tongue or say their lines, I also assume that it’s a decision made under duress without further evidence to the contrary.
In short, calling candidates “pro genocide” and expecting individual candidates to take the bully head-on in any particular race feels unfair to me, or at least misguided since, if we actually want to change this situation, my generation really needs to have some frank chats with their parents about their AIPAC donations.
What am I missing?
Edit: typos swype errors missing words
you are missing all the other issues that were swirling around her as a candidate, but may have been swallowed, up until she double tapped her self on live tv backing a genocide and the wealthy that are currently sacking the nation, after the dnc attempted to push biden again who was also for the same reasons not popular AND doing it so late that they could push to skip a primary.
from a party that is doing its best to help the right while thinly claiming ignoreance.
I actually wasn’t considering Harris on this really at all but of course she’s the go to example usually, even though she’s now forever unelectable. I guess in my head she lost for many other reasons altogether greater in sum than Gaza.
But really I was referring to the much greater problem we’re facing right this moment not in the past. Would-be Dem politicians are right now facing battles with AIPAC supremacy.
I’ll just use Mamdani since we’re just getting things off the ground here. That took record breaking grassroots activism and was still use one upset in a long history of utter domination. AIPAC’s batting average is still ferocious.
Any blue candidate is liable to face them in some way. With Mamdani it simply wasn’t relevant to the job he was applying for and he stuck to that, bless him, and NYers believed him. Mazel. But dammit if they didn’t try to make his stance on Israel THE deciding factor of the election.
You could say Mamdani was a coward for not taking on the genocide in Gaza more fully. It’s true. But my question was specifically “is that really what we need from candidates this year?”
Because right now are tons of candidates right now being similarly put in these weird gotcha tribunals interviews and debates about allegiance to a foreign nation, albeit an ally, when IR and diplomacy is 100% irrelevant to the job they’re even running for. Is it really every candidate’s job to take a stance?
i would say that the gaza situation is a litmus test on the morals of any candidate. any candidate who would defend what we have done to others for israel can not be trusted in matters of morality, a trait that can not ever be permitted access to power in any means, and any power they currently have must be stripped from them.
sorry, but defense of continued genocide is a total non starter.
as for needing to appeal to Aipac money? if that is what is needed to win elections, then the cause is long ago lost at reforming the US via non violent means. but i dont think it is.
100% on all counts. But to clarify I definitely wasn’t saying appeal to AIPAC, and I’m pretty sure you’re smart enough to know that.
Edit: which is an unsubtle way of saying “that last bit was bad faith must-win-internet-argument behavior. you know it. feel bad.”
i think the argument is the available candidates think it is true more so then accusing you of believing it. and after today i have to admit i was lying about thinking violence would not be necessary, mainly told to not have to spend forever arguing over accelerationism. but after today…. i don’t think i care for the charade any longer
That’s already begun. Rope-a-dope is effective. We will win.
in what way?
I don’t think you’re wrong, what I think is that this is exactly the problem. On every actually important topic, what are any candidate’s options here? Be vocal and get destroyed by the establishment immediately? Keep quiet and wait for an opportunity to fix things later, that will never ever come? Keep quiet for so long that you get your brain scrambled by “working within the system” and lose every ideal you ever held? From precedent those sure seem like the only things that ever happen. If there are no options that actually work at all, then I’ll at least prefer the candidate who will say “genocide bad”.
Electoralism is a bandaid solution at best in the first place, but the bandaid isn’t even effective if you just play ball. Assume every last politician is suspect, demand the moon, brook no compromise, terrorize whoever happens to be in office into submission. FDR didn’t do the New Deal because he believed in it, he did it as a milquetoast compromise to an organized, insistent, threatening populace.
At least that’s what I think, anyway… This sort of thing.
Microwave pizza? You have two hours to get me a gourmet truffle caviar pizza, or I’ll eat a bowl of shit!
So, you realize that what you’re saying here is, “The Democrats are so incompetent that getting them to adopt a position that a wide majority of their own constituents hold over the course of two years is an impossible and ludicrous.” You get that, right?
No. I’m saying that democrats already have the position that a wide majority of their constituents hold (as shown by the primary victories of corporate democrats time and again on a national level). The lemmy echo chamber doesn’t represent “wide majorities” whatsoever. Hillary and Kamala both lost by less than 5%.
Iif a few more idealists would have held their nose and voted blue despite the terrible candidates you would have problems right now of the type “the solar energy incentives are going to big corporations instead of homeowners” or “Kamala-Care offers too many loopholes and doesn’t provide a single payer system” instead of the current “the pedophile criminal is executing citizens in broad daylight while transferring 10 billion dollars to his slush fund and threatening war with Venezuela, Iran and Denmark”.
But at least you didn’t vote for an impure candidate, so you have that going for you… I’ll be enjoying my universal Healthcare, 14 months of paid maternity leave and 30 days of PTO over here. Peace!
I’m saying that democrats already have the position that a wide majority of their constituents hold (as shown by the primary victories of corporate democrats time and again on a national level).
OK, well, what you’re saying is demonstrably wrong. Recent polling shows that 65% of Democrats are sympathetic towards Palestinians, while 17% of Democrats’ sympathies lie with the Israelis. By the way, those numbers are at 41% to 30% with independents, so that means Democrats’ current position on Gaza is still 11 points underwater with those, “swing voters,” they’re always chasing.
However, if you’re using elections as your barometer, well, the Democrats own internal report (which the DNC tried to bury), shows that, “Kamala Harris lost significant support because of the Biden administration’s approach to the war in Gaza.” Also, if you think that, “primary victories of corporate democrats,” prove that being pro-Israel is a net positive for Democrats, “on a national level,” I’d like to point out that Biden didn’t face a real primary in 2024, and Harris didn’t face a primary at all, so Democratic voters haven’t weighed in nationally on Israel/Gaza since 2020. But if the local victories of folks like Mamdani and Majia are any indicator, then I’d say being pro-Israel is a pretty bad position to take.
Anyway, I’ll admit that I was so overwhelmed by how spectacularly wrong you were in that first sentence that I didn’t even read the rest of your comment, but skimming it now, I can see it the same, “lesser evil,” arguments I’ve been hearing since 2016, to which I’ll say, “no one gives a shit.” Would we be better off with Harris than Trump? Of course. That’s why I voted for her. But it doesn’t fucking matter. The, “lesser evil,” argument may be correct, but time and again it has failed with voters. You can bitch all you want about people not voting how you think they should, but at the end of the day, it won’t make a difference. Give them something they want to vote for in 2028 or lose.
What about the 240 years before 2024?
What about them? That question is so vague asking it without further context is meaningless.
If only lemmy kept context.
No one knows what fhe fuck you’re trying to say, dude. I made, like, six different points about the Democrats and the 2024 election and you replied with, “what about the entirety of American history?” What about it? WTF is your point?
Last microwave pizza I ate wasn’t impressive, it’s true. But the pizza wasn’t committing genocide or actively suppressing any of the things I am fighting for my life for (like healthcare that doesn’t make me homeless and the right not to be shot by fascist street gangs with state backing), all while telling me I had to eat it or else another pizza that was even more freezer burned would do all those same things but worse.
Yeah your analogy kinda sucks ass.
So the other pizza was a pie of shit, not a bowl? I don’t see that as a major problem with the analogy…
Anyhoo, enjoy the 3 years of shit ahead…, maybe even 7 (Trump 2028!)
Isnt this literally what this post is complaining about?
I think the post is glorifying it.
Yeah anyone who refuses to recognise this “I didn’t vote for Kamala because she wasn’t a perfect person even though I knew Trump would then win”-rhetoric as Russian propaganda, is an idiot.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2020_United_States_elections
