The “tankie” instances are the least likely to have bots. They’re the most vehemently anti-AI and the moderators most active in banning any kind of bot-like activity. Hexbear, the one that all the dronies clutch their pearls about most and accuse of brigading the most doesn’t even have downvotes - they are incapable of mass downvoting.

Diseases did not conquer hundreds of tribes.

Disease played a major role in the European’s ability to conquer those tribes. It’s not an either/or situation. It is true that the “Americas” that the English started colonizing had already been devastated by the contagions brought by the Spanish. The English undoubtedly would have found it far more difficult and maybe even impossible to conquer those hundreds of tribes had they not first been so severely depopulated by pandemic. Acknowledging this does not absolve or even lessen the atrocities committed by the English.

You’re a reactionary cosplaying as a leftist

Every accusation a confession.

I am fully convinced that a small number of users on this instance are here with the intention of making anarchists look bad, the intention to really drive in the nail (one crafted by the enemies of all of the left) that anarchism is the ideology of spoiled, tantrum-throwing children. Because that’s how @masquenox@lemmy.dbzer0.com and a few others like them are behaving. Actual anarchism is not this, of course, but that’s why I am so convinced that either these puerile users don’t know what real anarchism is, or they do but are only pretending to be anarchists online to “troll” real leftists, be their targets Marxist-Leninist or real anarchists or any other genuine leftist tendency.

Anyone reading these exchanges (even lurking liberals) who have any experience interacting with their fellow humans, can immediately spot who in these threads are speaking in good faith, are interested in learning and understanding the world, interested in presenting valid evidence and reasoning for their beliefs (people like @CascadeOfLight@hexbear.net in this particular subthread), versus which other participants in this thread are acting completely, openly, and smugly in bad faith with no interest in either the truth or in learning, let alone any interest in having a real discussion, because they make it clear the only interest they have is “owning” opponents, or since they can’t manage that, just being inflammatory and saying things we all know are absurd but are designed to cause upset even when it lays bare their own pathetic ignorance. Trolling, in other words. It is so blatantly obvious who is just here spewing whatever they can with the intent to make people angry. It doesn’t have to be reflective of reality, they don’t have to even make sense, they just say things in a transparent attempt to shit-fling.

I say let them keep at it, they will wear themselves out eventually, as conniption-having toddlers always do. But also because it is so obvious what they’re doing, anyone watching from the sidelines, especially anyone “without a horse in this race” can see that the “tankies” and actual anarchists (like @Nakoichi@hexbear.net), at least in this thread, are the ones who know what they’re talking about and have genuine convictions and a dedication to justice. I want to reiterate that (real) anarchists have these positive qualities too, but a select few of the cringe users in this thread like masquenox who claim to be anarchists should not be taken as being even remotely representative of what people who belong to that tendency are like or what they believe. The anarchists I know irl and consider friends and comrades wouldn’t be caught dead associating with these tantrum-throwing, “tankie-hating” children.

I don’t appreciate the genocide of me and my communities being denied

I don’t appreciate the struggle of me and my communities (trans and disabled, just like you claim to be!) being used as a wedge in a despicable attempt to steer the conversation away from Wynn’s genocide denial. It’s hilarious that you’re accusing us of genocide denial because we’re telling you… not to defend genocide denial. That’s some sick and twisted logic.
Then why are you trying to deny or trivialize the genocide of Palestinians? A genocide that itself includes the slaughter of trans people and disabled people? I notice you didn’t respond to what @Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net said because it completely undermined your attempt to use trans and disabled people to deflect and defend a genocide denier.

because it’s not the same as the graphic vids you watch

I don’t watch “graphic vids” but I do inform myself of what’s actually happening in the world rather than deny the reality or pretend my own plight is the only one that should matter, like you are doing. Also shame on you for your transparent attempt to make it sound like having knowledge of the brutal carnage that Palestinians are subjected to is just a lurid desire for shock value.

Do better and read about genocide if that’s something you’re genuinely interested in.

Do better and read more about western chauvinism, intersectionality, and even trans liberation outside the imperial core and your highly privileged position there. Relieve yourself of your petty chauvinist ignorance. I can already tell I’ve read more about genocide than the sum of your entire reading of leftist theory. My god, talk about larpers.

The genocide we face is silent,

Oh fuck OFF. You are talking to largely trans and majority queer people here and telling them to stop talking about the genocide of Palestinians, to stop criticizing a fascist-flirting liberal who is saying the genocide is really nbd guys! You’re telling a trans community they’re “scapegoating” someone who is using her platform to push fascist, Zionist talking points. Grotesque hypocrite. You: “The genocide we face is silent, so stop talking about genocide denial and stay silent.”

I’m not comparing it to kids being physically maimed by bombs and saying “but we have it bad too”,

That’s exactly what you did and are doing. In fact you did worse, you tried to tell us we shouldn’t even be talking about Wynn’s hand-waving away of children murdered by the tens of thousands because “I have it bad too!”

I’m saying that it literally meets the criteria in many similar ways.

What you and I both experience as trans and disabled people in the west is not anywhere near the magnitude of what the people of Gaza are experiencing, including the trans and disabled people being murdered there as a part of that genocide, which Wynn, and now you, are trivializing and trying to shift the conversation away from.

I’ve watched the far left neglect caring for their own communities while LARPING at protests for almost two decades now.

What does that have to do with criticizing a genocide denier? The fact that there hasn’t been a far left movement in the west for decades has nothing to do with the fact that we need to call out genocide denial and ridicule the people who use their platform to do it. Oh, I see… you’re trying to say that people who protest US imperialism and the mass murder it commits all over the world are just larpers who are “neglecting their own communities.” Bull fucking shit. The people most active in opposing imperialism are invariably also the ones most likely to be there doing the real work to help the oppressed and marginalized around them. Once again, you’re trying to weasel in this idea that it’s not possible to do both, that they are even in conflict, when the truth is the exact fucking opposite: these two things, opposition to genocide abroad and resistance to oppression at home, can’t be separated and working towards one will always be a benefit to other as well. If one is a principled leftist (which you very clearly are not) they oppose oppression in all forms, and they certainly don’t do what you’re doing by trying to separate and silence. This tactic of trying to divide intersectional issues, exactly what you’re trying and failing to do here, is a well known tactic the rightwing deliberately uses to undermine the left. And I have a strong suspicion that is what is actually happening here as well.

It’s death by a thousand cuts and the worst are from people who are performative radicals.

Yes. And anyone with eyes can see that the performative radical here is you.

Your comment is pretty shitty tbh, you remind me of myself when I existed in a bubble of radical leftism online around 2010.

I’ve been an activist since the 90s. And everything you’ve said is very revealing that you don’t know shit about what you’re talking about, kid. As for how “shitty” my comment was, I’ll let the upvote ratio speak for itself here, lol. I’m glad to see that your bullshit is apparent to everyone reading.

She probably got money from the DNC, too, when she went to meet Hillary Clinton.

How is she still making money tho?

All you need to live a comfy, bougie lifestyle after that are “investments.”

You are absolutely right and I should have said that too. Thank you for pointing it out.

As a disabled trans person I find this comparison rather disgusting:

There is also an ongoing trans genocide no one talks about enough, it’s easier to ignore, and genocide of disabled people, both happening within our local communities.

The systemic oppression we face is real, horrible, and is an incalculable injustice that needs to be fought at all costs. But it is categorically not the same as the wholesale literal slaughter of tens of thousands of Palestinian children. Don’t tell me you can look at the images coming out of Gaza of countless mangled bodies in the bombed-out rubble of their homes and hospitals and say “yeah, but I’m being genocided like that too.” This is a category error and I find it more than “kind of gross.”

What’s more is that it doesn’t matter which injustice is “worse.” Giving one attention does not mean we should be silent on the other. That’s not how the fight against injustice works. It’s competition-brained bullshit at best. Everyone here agrees with the fact that transphobia is a deep social evil that we all have to struggle against, but using it as leverage to say we should talk less about the downplaying and denial of the genocide in Gaza, that is reprehensible. Both of these injustices can be (and often are) talked about and struggled against simultaneously without detracting from the other. By calling out Wynn’s scummy liberal, bordering on genocide-denying rhetoric, and expressing our disgust with a person who would use their large platform to spew that rhetoric, we are not in any way detracting from the fight against transphobia or ableism. On the other hand, when someone comes along and says we shouldn’t be loudly calling out that kind of behavior, that really is a kind of detraction from that struggle.

I don’t agree with her politics and viscerally feel the innate violence of liberalism but also listen to her streams when I need to know I’m not alone in being trans, depressed and an addict.

If you have a parasocial attachment to a problematic personality and find them somehow comforting, fine. I’m sure many here can relate simply because we live in a world dominated by liberalism. But don’t tell others they shouldn’t be vocally critical of those things you yourself say you recognize are bad. Personally, I wouldn’t want to keep listening to someone who uses aspects I share (trans, depressed, addiction) as they’re pushing a liberal agenda, what you yourself described as the innate violence of liberalism. It’s not a crime to have low standards, but to defend the indefensible or tell others to be quiet about it, that’s going beyond just having a problematic fav.

Are there better people to tear down at the moment.

Don’t do that. Don’t do the “worse things exist so don’t talk about this one bad thing that I say is lesser.” Whether or not you realize you’re doing it, that is an actual known tactic to throw a wrench in organizing efforts and derail leftist groups. It comes back to that same false binary I was talking about above. Yes there are and always will be “better people to tear down” that is, “worse people” like those in power who are the ones actively waging the genocide. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be rightly criticizing other ghouls and vultures engaging in genocide denialist rhetoric which is what Wynn is doing.

Reading the hate towards her feels kind of gross, like a real easy scapegoat for anger n frustration at liberals

She is not a scapegoat. She is a millionaire with a substantial following and platform she is using to push fascist-adjacent talking points. This shit needs to be loudly criticized and called what it is. If she doesn’t want that criticism, she can just not say that shit. She is not a leftist, she is a liberal Clintonesque centrist. She deserves every bit of ire she gets from the left, the same as any right wing pundit.

Not from what I’ve seen at all. The people who insist on calling Palestinians (and any Arab people who oppose Zionism) “terrorists” are often the same people frothing at the mouth about how we have to smash the Russian “orcs.” Granted, this isn’t limited only to Germans, but I’ve definitely seen it specifically from them as well.

Voters should vote for those who represent their interests. If any candidate is endorsing (let alone committing) genocide, and that is a violation of a given voter’s interests (and it damn well better be), then that voter should not vote for that candidate, period. If there are only 2 options and both are genocidal, then neither should be rewarded with a vote. You want “harm reduction”? Then vote for PSL - if your liberal obsession with voting has convinced you that voting has any power whatsoever, then don’t use it to reward genocide, use that power to say no to it entirely. If your position is that “we live under a system where we are getting genocide no matter what” then rather than going “well, there’s a chance this one might be one iota less genocide” maybe start coming to the correct conclusion that the system is indeed irredeemably rotten and rigged FOR genocide, that it is designed to be this way which makes all of that system your enemy, not just the orange team that says the quiet part out loud too much, but also the one that smiles politely and gives the right lip service while literally, not figuratively, but very much actually mass murdering children. Yep, that blue team is your enemy too. So now it’s time to get down to the hard work of building alternative power structures through organization in direct defiance of the genocidal machine, having done away with your petty red(orange)/blue team false dichotomy. Join us in actually working for a better world rather than tossing up your hands and voting for the genocidaires that cry crocodile tears and pretend it’s such a sad state of affairs as they massacre little kids for power and profit. You aren’t actually beholden to support them. They aren’t the “lesser” evil, they’re just another piece of the entire evil machine!

You seem to lack the reasoning capacity of most toddlers. The US war machine is committing genocide. Both the democrats and the republicans fully and unreservedly support and represent that US war machine. The genocide was started under one genocidal maniac (Biden) and continues under another (Trump). You weren’t getting “genocide-lite” when Biden, the one who ensured the genocide began and commenced without impedance, was in office and you aren’t getting “genocide-plus” now that the other genocidal maniac is in power. You are being played for a fool by a good-cop/bad-cop routine that is so plainly obvious it makes me literally wince to see fools be taken in by it. But of course they are, because it’s easier to pretend you made some difference by voting rather than actually doing anything to help the people literally being genocided right now. (Those of us who would never vote for fascists as the commit genocide are the ones sending aid directly to Palestinians while you whine about your team of blue fascists not being the ones in the big boy chair while the genocide commences and wagging your finger pathetically at the people who actually fight for justice. You aren’t fucking helping “lessen” the genocide by voting for the people who started it and ensured it continued on into the next term. People like you disgust me.

It’s a shame you’re unable to see which flags are swastikas while you go on supporting them.

I love unraveling the bullshit the powerful use to trick us into thinking it’s in our best interest.

You would likely very much appreciate Marx then, as it is his work that plainly showed the most fundamental way in which the capitalists (the ruling class then and now) exploit the masses and how that exploitation is the basis for the existence of the capitalist class. It’s very much the foundation for why it is even a necessity for, as you said, the powerful to trick us about what our interests actually are. But you don’t have to read his work directly to get a basic and general understanding of what he said. The same way you don’t have to read Darwin in order to develop a basic and general grasp of evolution. However, in both cases you do have to engage with some of the actual material on the topic so as not to come away with a false understanding of it, e.g. a creationist’s cartoonish understanding of natural selection (“my grandpa wasn’t a gotdamned monkey!”) or a right-winger’s ridiculous notions of communism (“the tankies want to steal my toothbrush!”)

Spoken like a true commie

Indeed it is, hence it being absolutely correct.

should apply to China, seeing how most of their bad shit happend internally with the notable exceptions of Taiwan and Hong Kong

Those are still internal to China. I can understand that people are ignorant of the fact that Taiwan is part of China given the rhetoric around it and the fact that it is still provisionally ruled by the ousted rump-state nationalist government that still thinks it’s the legitimate ruler of Mongolia too. Taiwan IS part of China, but there IS something being actually being contested there. But Hong Kong? Hong Kong unambiguously is in China, it’s just one of the Special Autonomous Regions, but even they themselves consider themselves part of China, not “external” to it.

Also, it’s not “bad shit,” it’s treating reactionaries with relatively kid gloves.

There is a distinctive difference between Russia and China, despite both belonging to same political alliance and both have a dictatorial leaderships.

China does not have a “dictorial” leadership. As for Russia, well it’s leadership is no more “dictorial” than that of any western “democracy” leadership. Their “political alliance” is still relatively loose, and the only way in which they could be considered part of the same “axis” (not a word you used, but still kind of implied) is because the US’s belligerence against them both has driven them closer together.

Hating west/USA and loving either of them would make one a campist,

Hating the west/USA is just a matter of simultaneously knowing history and being a compassionate, empathetic human being. And I would bet that most of the people you would say “love” either Russia or China rather just support their actions and goals, probably very critically in the case of Russia, and do so for rational reasons based on the true behavior of those countries. That is not campism. Campism is when you support (or “love”) a country not because its actions genuinely align with your own ideals or ideology but purely because you identify with it. Interestingly, it largely stems from a failure of self-awareness. There absolutely are campists for Russia and for China, I am not denying that at all. But despite what the libs here say, you won’t find very many of them on lemmy. Most of the people on lemmy support these countries for very rational reasons regarding ideology and their geopolitical conduct.

but I’m not sure about that qualifyng as tankie.

I always understood it to be a derogatory term for the general authoritarian communist/pseudo-communist block more so than applying to all national supermacists.

This is more or less correct. Most campists on lemmy support the US/NATO and they certainly aren’t tankies by anyone’s standards. You’re right about it always having been solely a derogatory term for certain radical leftists, nowadays usually those who support countries whose governments are fighting western imperialism. But like many others have said in this thread, it is becoming so diluted that merely not supporting the fascist DNC has been enough to get a person labeled a tankie. The silly “authoritarian” part mostly came into play once liberals started using the term and (as usual) completely not understanding its origins (origins that have to do with a specific uprising in Hungary in the 1950s).

Eastern Ukrain was genocide, then what is happening to the Uygurs is definitely also genocide.

Except in Ukraine people did die and their heritage and language were being actively suppressed, etc. We know this because it is documented all over, even in pictures on the net. These specific things are readily confirmable. It was even a large impetus for a broader war, as hopefully you’re aware. There is zero question that Ukrainian nazis were shelling Russian-speaking civilians in the Donbas and that Ukraine as a state was passing laws detrimental to Russian speakers.

In Xinjiang, no such evidence exists because nothing of the sort happened. It’s based on a lie dreamed up by one Christian fundamentalist Adrian Zenz. Every source on this “genocide” traces back to him, and none of the claims are confirmable. Even to the UN! In fact you, yes, even you if you have the means to travel, can go there today and see for yourself that the Uyghur population is thriving and they will laugh if you tell them they’re being genocided. I’ll leave the academic discussion for exactly where to draw the line for the definition of the term genocide to others for now. But based on how you were defining it, Ukraine was committing genocide, but no, China was doing quite the opposite by encouraging ethnic diversity. Again, go see for yourself like this person did: Oh yeah, just look at all that genociding going on!

Behold, fellow lemmy browsers: here^ we see the scratched liberal as their mask starts to slip. Not unlike the “UHMUHRICA! Love it er LEAVE it!” style of chud. They have a similar simplistic and deeply uncurious faulty view of the world, a view desperately clung to even when they are shown it is undeniably false, for self reflection is too frightening a concept for them even to consider.

Russia entered a conflict that was already in progress, a civil war where the Ukrainian coup government was attempting to ethnically cleanse the Russian speaking population in the east. This coup was orchestrated by the US (this was obvious, admitted to in recorded phone calls, and was rife with high US politicians (John McCaine for example) going there to celebrate. The US/NATO also funded the training and arming of openly neo-nazi militias like Azov Battalion, (and others) many of whom were the ones shelling the people in the East long before Russia intervened. All of this was done by the US to exert pressure on Russia. And this is just scratching the surface. So no, Russia did not “do this to itself” and your framing of it is naive and simplistic and just plain false.

I am genuinely glad to see you reognize the villainization of China, but please also apply those same critical thinking skills to what you have been told about Russia in the Ukraine conflict and do some digging into the history that doesn’t rely on western propaganda.

I cannot take you seriously if you willfully swallow the firehose of US propaganda about how cHiNa BAD ebil aUthOrItArIaN when it’s a country whose government has the enthusiastic approval of over 90% of the population, the country that lifted 850 million people out of abject poverty, the only large country doing anything significant about the mass extinction event that is climate change, the country that… well, I could go on. But no, keep believing those lies like a good lil western capitalism enjoyer.

This one isn’t just staying ignorant, they’re loudly proclaiming their ignorance as if they’re proud of it. Yikes.