Stop. You’re going to attract the thorn person. This is chum in the water for them.
Eww - wonder how much he’s been blocked.
I think they’re in this post already because I did see someone using it earlier.
You used to see them in every thread doing it, though. I can’t be bothered to confirm or remember their username.
Φuck that.
The a in anyone is actually pronounced like æ. Unlike the a in hand.
The ø, however, is nothing like the o in one. It’s more like the eu in French, but doesn’t exist in English sounds. The Daniel word bøh (meaning boo) or øh (meaning uhm), does sound like the ir in bird, but that’s a rare pronounciation of ø that depends on the h.
I’d argue as a sound it does exist, think of the ‘uh’ in ‘duh’. But it doesn’t have a single letter associated with it.
That’s not the same sound. I tried thinking of words in English that would use the sound, but I couldn’t come up with one. If you think duh has the sound, then you’re not pronouncing “eu” correctly in French.
Thinking the sound doesn’t exist in English is quite the blunder
As a Danish guy, please don’t. I get confused enough when you mash æ, ø, or å into random words.
Kamelåså?
Cygelkule!
Spisniegel!
TrϾkert?
You just ordered 1000L of milk.
Reading the header with Norwegian eyes was horrible, and it took way too long for me to actually see what they were trying to say
As a Danish man you need to tell me how much truth there is to this. Please.
There’s some truth to it but I can’t say if it is unique to Denmark. There’s some phrasings and words used in Jutland that’s completely foreign for people in Zealand. We also have our fringe dialects that are closer to being an entirely different language.
But what is true is that Danish puts way less emphasis on consonants and endings of words are often “swallowed” so to say, so for Norwegians and Swedes it might seem that we have a speech impediment at best. A joke in Scandinavia is that the easiest way to learn Danish is to learn Swedish and put a potato in your mouth while you speak.
Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yer?
See the løveli lakes
The wonderful telephøne system
And mani interesting furry animals
Including the majestic møøse
A Møøse once bit my sister …
No realli! She was Karving her initials on the møøse with the sharpened end of an interspace tøøthbrush given her by Svenge - her brother-in-law - an Oslo dentist and star of many Norwegian møvies: “The Høt Hands of an Oslo Dentist”, “Fillings of Passion”, “The Huge Mølars of Horst Nordfink”.
We apologise for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible have been sacked.
Mynd you, møøse bites Kan be pretty nasti …
We apologise again for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible for sacking the people who have just been sacked, have been sacked.
Akshually, ø and æ aren’t part of the Swedish alphabet. They’re Danish and Norwegian. In Swedish you have ä and ö; å is common to the three languages.
This change absolutely nothing, but now you’re able to distinguish Swedish and Norwegian at a glance!
Swedish doesn’t have the ø or the æ, it uses ö and ä instead.
The only one it shares with the other skandinavisk languages is å.
That being said, nice reference.
43 upvotes…
Wait, the “o” in “holiday”, “lovely” sound different, so which is it?
The ø sounds more like an ö from German. In fact, Swedish uses the ö instead if the ø.
The monty python slides are just a humørous stylization, nothing more
Neither actually. It sounds more like the e in permit or term, the u in uuh also gets close. They are not the most common sounds of the letter but I struggle to find analogous in English for the more common sound.
Do they sound different in a Swedish accent?
No idea, but I’d expect the same letter to have the same pronunciation. On the flip side, you just proved that it’s not always the case haha
F U N E X?
S, V F X.
Why did I read this in the Swedish Chef’s accent?
Because you’ve never watched Monty Python I’d bet.
You could’ve watched Monty Python and still read it in the Swedish Chef’s accent.
I always read it in a Canadian accent, because I didn’t know what Swedish people sounded like when I watched it as a kid, so I just assumed they sound like Canadians. As is reasonable…
Did it have anything to do with this?
Where’s the Lemmy user who unironically uses the thorn in all of their posts? You should hook up with that person!
I got annoyed at that, so I just set up a replace on every web page that I open to change the thorn to a th. Haven’t even thought about it until seeing your post.
I know who you’re referring to, but I haven’t seen them in a while.
The supposed justification was that it fucked up AI scraping, which I think was bullshit. Seemed like more of a hipster thing.
Saw them just the other day and asked them wtf was a worb.
Edit, here it is:
It’s the sequel to Morbius - Worbius.
The anti-anti-hero.
Þ is þe coolest
For some reason I only read it as a lisp. Or a waaay over pronounced TH, like cartoonish, think daffy duck.
Yæs plæse
Yogthos?
The þ þing? That’s really cool to have around.
I for one would love to see English gain a bit of Frenchoise nose-up with ç.
K, let’s just dump all phonetic symbols
Þhat’s a great idea
Thhis
…
Whoops lol
lmao
YENNEL!!!
Þæt’s*
Many people can’t handle the existing alphabet, imagine for a second if they have to deal with extra letters.
Folks can’t handle the current alphabet because it’s being used in the shittiest way possible
Multi-century archaic spelling, preserved spellings in loaned words despite the sounds being different, hell there was a point where Big Dictionary was shoehorning random letters into words to make them more adjacent to their latin counterparts
By all means you could triple the amount of letters in the alphabet and make it work, but as of now it’s kinda just the worst case of sunk-cost to ever exist
In English extra letters could solve a problem as many letters are pronounced differently depending on context making it not very intuitive to spell some words.
It’s a menace for somone who grew with phonetically consistent language
That would be kind of going against language’s natural evolution. Many words used to be spelled with way more letters than they are today.
That would be kind of going against language’s natural evolution.
If you can live with horrible changes like million-milliard-billion-biliard changed to million-billion-trillion-quadrillion you can do actually convenient changes.
Every other language except English does it the old way. And translating one system to another is a garbage experience
You would add æ and not œ ? Sacrilege !
We can’t even get people to spell correctly with the letters we have.
Capitalization, and punctuation are being lost because it’s slightly inconvenient on a phone keyboard to include them. Anything outside of lowercase a-z is too hard now. Good luck getting anyone to shift the keyboard to find other characters.
Fundamentally disagree. Look at how often people use emoji, AlTerNaTiNg CaSe, and other tricks to convey meaning online (and mainly from their phones). English is not losing complexity, it’s not being dumbed down, or becoming simpler because people are typing on a touch screen. It’s evolving in real time because the methods of communication are evolving. 300 years ago we capitalized nouns in English for emphasis on important nouns, some people capitalized all nouns like in German, we used punctuation quite differently. Before that, we used these big, chunky symbols to indent our lines and make them more readable (and then we got rid of the symbols, but kept the indents, and that’s why we indent the first line of a paragraph). We used to use 3 little stars (an asterism) to break paragraphs apart. Emoji, alternating case, ellipses made of commas, weird punctuation uses, capitalization forgone to convey a flat tone, periods missed at the end of a sentence to give it a friendlier tone, all of these things are living, real grammar rules. They’re just not the same ones as in the text books. Much like how AAVE is not taught in schools as correct or proper English, but it has its own grammar rules that are consistent among its users, the way people type now is fairly consistent, and follows a series of rules that have been agreed upon in the same way that any language agrees upon its rules.
English got frozen in time because of the printing press, and we all just assumed it had been the way it was for so long that that’s the way it was, English was set. But languages are constantly evolving, and there’s really no such thing as a correct way to write a living language. There is only the way we currently write it, which is constantly changing. Normally that change is fairly slow, but we with virtually every other aspect of humanity, the computer, the Internet, the smartphone, and other rapid technological changes increases the speed at which we adopt new cultural norms exponentially.
It’s also worth noting that we write more now that we ever have before. In the past, you may occasionally write letters, jot something down on a postcard or a birthday card, have a weekly shopping list, or a note from a phone call, but apart from secretaries taking short hand, stenographers, and other specialized careers involving writing specifically, the average person did not write anywhere near as much as the average millennial or Gen z, who may communicate exclusively through text, email, discord, whatever, with their friends on a daily basis. With more writing, it follows that the language will evolve faster. A short lived species will often demonstrate more mutation and variation than a longer lived species. There are just more generations to work with. Every email, every Facebook post, every text message is a potential for a random mutation in the language, and without the strict confines of previous generations telling us that something must be written in a certain way, because the primary purpose of writing in the past was much more professional and academic, much less casual, those mutations are given a chance to survive and to flourish.
Yeah, sometimes it is genuinely hard for me to read posts made by younger Gen z or Gen alpha, and it is especially hard to read posts that are trying to mimic the gen z/alpha posts but from older generations, but I am legitimately excited to see how English evolves without the confines or academic interference. I can almost imagine a high/low English split coming, and that’s exciting.
I like your way better
Oh wait, i thought elipses made of commas were a missclick lmao
Iirc, it began that way, but it’s used now as like a softened ellipses.
I’m almost certain that earlier versions of iOS exposed the comma on the main keyboard and hid the period under the symbols button, because double-tapping space added it.
Which meant that, depending on version, you’d sometimes need to tap 6 times to write “…” (to enter the symbols keyboard mode after every period, since it would go back to the primary set every time), and only 3 to write “,,,”.
But I might be wrong.
No? If anything, the frequent typing of text on phone keyboards in online interactions has created even more intricacies to language; as now we are used to not only using the proper methods of capitalisation and punctuation marks to convey meaning, but also to intentionally leaving them out or distorting them to convey more meaning or emotion. Phone keyboards can auto correct, auto capitalise and add punctuation to sentences for you. People go out of their way to disable those and intentionally type “incorrect” sentences because “On my way!” vs “on my way”/“omw” just don’t feel the same.
Also, not bothering to type “proper” sentences while texting your friends on a phone keyboard doesnt mean you start to just forget that sentences begin with a capitalised letter and end with a dot lol. Furthermore English is just a stupid language with stupid spelling and pronunciation rules. The concept of the spelling bee was really shocking to me when I first heard about it as a non-native speaker becuase most other languages just… are easier with spelling.
edit: some people really are just basically illiterate though (see what I did there? no capitalisation.)
wi kan’t ivən get piipəl tö spell kərrektlii wið þe lettərz wi hav.
kapitalayzeyšən, and pⱥnctueyšən ar biyiƞ lost bükoz i’c slaytli inkonvinyənt on ə fown kiiybord tu inklud ðəm. eniþüƞ awtsayd ov lowərkeys a-z iz tuu hard naw. göd lⱥk gettiƞ eniwⱥn tu šüft ðe kiiybord tö faynd ⱥðəə karakterz.
I try, it’s just sometimes I get excited
How to pronounce Swedish umlauted vowels:
Å => how the British pronounce “awe”, “oo” in “floor”
Ä => how the Americans pronounce the “a” in “cat”
Ö => “ea” in “earl”, “yearn” or “u” in “turn”
Oh I’ll add the Estonian ones because we’ve got fun ones
Ü - pretty much does not exist in English, you might hear it in a weird dialect, apparently in the word “few” as spoken by scousers and some South Africans?
Õ - same preface, apparently you might hear a person from Cardiff pronounce “foot” this way or a southern USian might say “nut” this way, but I’ve never heard either.
Ö and Ä are the same as in Swedish and we do not have Å
So ä ö and ü are pronounced the same as in German?
Then i’d just have to learn how to say å and õ if I visit the Baltics or Scandinavia.
Yes, ü sounds like the ü in über and ö like Österreich at least. I’m not entirely sure about the German vs Estonian pronunciation of ä. Sounds closer to the ä in Käfer than the ä in Käse if you go to wiktionary and listen to the example pronunciations. I did study German in school because it sounded preferable to learning an entire new alphabet and recall the German ä was taught as sort of a cross between the Estonian ä and Estonian e, leaning towards one or the other depending on context, but then again I’m not sure how good my German teachers were, I know I only ever had two or three English teachers out of like 8 or 9 that actually spoke the language and knew how to pronounce words.
ik about Å because blåhaj :3
Yep!
Pronounced bloo-hi approximately
In danish it’s more like blaw-hai (but without the wauv from the w)
You can keep all the rest. I just want Þ (thorn). It represents þe “th” sound in English. Gimmie!!!
Well, it represents at least one of the th sounds for English at least. Bring back eth too! (Ð/ð)
Ðey’re boþ great letters
You can’t do too much and expect to be successful. Let’s just start with þ to get everyone used to it. Remember, things like Þis can take 100 years or more to be permanent.
I can þink of anoðer couple candidates.
There’s also thiſ.
The ‘long s’.
An f without the crossbar, ſ , sometimes more fully shaped at the bottom, like the integral symbol.
As best I can tell… linguists have not actually been able to figure out totally consistent rules for its usage, beyond ‘it replaces s, sometimes’.
It seems to pretty much be purely stylistic flair, everyone who did use it seems to have slightly different rules for how and in what circumstances they did. It tends to follow certain broader rules, but counterexamples can be found for most of them.
… I wonder if we could merge old/middle english characters and l33t sp33k.
ð4t aſſ B b0unc1n, æ’r3 d4y, æ’r3 9t
I learned about ſ from House of Leaves.
“ſtaires! We haue found ſtaires!”
The Constitution of the USA
The actual literal written document makes considerable use of ’ ſ ', this is from a rare typed version that does as well.
no way. i knew it used the long S in the handwritten one, but i never knew there were typed versions. this is a find
Indeed it was, fetched a pretty penny via Sotheby’s auction.
Hilariously… was discovered during an estate sale (garage sale for rich people) in North Carolina.
Estate sales aren’t garage sales for rich people. They’re garage sales for dead people. Hence the word estate. It’s the estate of the deceased holding the sale, not the deceased. Legal bullshit mumbo gumbo, but there you have it
True, my mistake, I accidentally made a false e-statement.
me on my way to eftablifh Juftice and fecure the Bleffings of Liberty to ourfelves
Aw, you have the sniffles?
God bleff you.
lolololol
Check those beautiful ligatures from long s to long s and from long s to t, and c to t.
i need to finish that one
It’s fun. I like ergodic literature.
Just wait until you hear about end-of-word sigma, ς.
Or the insular r, ꞃ.
Ŧo Đ/đ, Ŧ/ŧ are also cool, more historically accurate(thorn and eth were never as clean cut as we like to ŧink) and fit the vibe of đe english alphabet better.
Edit: actually used đ and ŧ to show them in use.
I don’t like either of these because they aren’t unique enough to easily speed read. The þ is a p and b and confuses my brain and the ð is just a little too small for the cross at the top on many fonts. At least ø and æ are unique enough to my eyes.
I kan’t imagine living with that mecc.
Yeah, good point.
Such good letters. I could never digest the fact that th can sound so different (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ
Look, if you add æ and ø you also have to add å, otherwise Danes will be confused.
æ can then we also get œ as well?
does ø have a name? just o with a line or what
Yes, it’s called ø.
Us nords have nine vowel letters:
- a e i
- o u y
- æ ø å
and they all are just themselves for a name. Like e isn’t “c with a line” any more than q is “o with a leg”.
They’re also all monophthongs, which is hard to communicate to anglophones who pronounce their vowel letters overwhelmingly as diphthongs. E.g. anglos probably read the vowel letters as
- ey i ay
- åo ju way
- ??? ??? ???
There’s an æøå song which might help.
W just kinda standing here awkwardly
also now that i’m a few seconds into the song, that is a great song
i also finally know how to pronounce the name of my favorite shoes correctly. which is either going to relieve or infuriate my danish friend. they refuse to tell me.
W is a double-v for us, so our alphabet goes uvw (u ve dobbel-ve), rather than uwv (ju dabbel-ju vi).
Germanic languages vary a bit in their attitude towards w; we Norwegians use it pretty much just as a fancy old-timey v and could frankly drop w from our alphabet without missing anything (just like q is practically never used).
Germans use w the way we use v, and then use v pretty much like f.
The anglo w sound is something we have to learn in English class, and even then a lot of people start to hypercorrect and pronounce even the "v"s in English as their w. It can be wery funny to listen to, or wery frustrating.
Danes will be confused.
Well, not if we wipe them off the earth, as Odin commands.
we already have that in “blåhaj” :3
