It’s because everyone except the wait staff gets paid a living wage. The waiter probably gets paid $2.75/hour because the shady restaurant owner wants YOU to pay the rest of their employees wage for them.
The problem is not overly entitled wait staff, it’s tipping culture in general. Any other job would pay at least normal minimum hourly wages.
Having worked in food service, and having many friends who do, I don’t know a single person who would rather keep tips. The majority have openly talked shit about tipping. Everyone I know hates tipping except the management that benefits from it.
I live in a very HCOL area and that probably has more to do with attitudes on tipping anything. Wait staff in this area can easily earn wages that are much, much higher than minimum wage with tips.
For example, the state in the US I live in does not have a lower base pay for wait staff. They’re making at minimum $17.13 an hour before tips.
Plus then there’s the variance of the individual. If you’re naturally good with people, you’re likely to get tipped better. If you’re a pretty young girl, you’ll probably make decent money even if you’re not good with people, etc.
Hard agree. It’s a shitty practice with shitty origins that allows companies to pay incredibly low wages and justify it with the idea that the employees should make up the difference with a nebulous performance-based appeal to customers’ sense of charity.
Cool. That restaurant, also being in a HCOL, could afford to pay those people a living wage without tips. You’re advocating for them to not have to do that.
Holy fuck I’ve got a friend that will die on the hill that you (customer) should tip, and generously every time. Given his experience with it, I agree to a point, but only because he willingly chose to dig heels into that job for better or for worse.
I do tip because I feel it’s earned in most cases. I just don’t agree with being over the top about it for sure. Part of that is his personality too… And the more I think about it; fuck that guy.
People also choose individual lines at the cash registers rather than one shared line that splits into the next available opening. It doesn’t matter that it’s better on average, human intuition is really bad at statistics.
But the people who directly benefit will still fight you on it.
Is that still true? Even back when I has tipped workers as peers, their attitudes were mixed. If you have any polling data, that would be appreciated – but, I don’t have any data either, just vague memories.
I’m admittedly talking from a personal experience living in a HCOL area that does not have a lower wage for wait staff. Wait staff are paid $17.13 at minimum here and that’s before tips.
I’d much prefer a stable, livable wage over recieving tips.
The problem is that no one is making a livable wage. At least as a server, there’s (on average) a pretty direct correlation between skill & effort and your income, so a decent server is probably making enough to live on. If you’re working retail, you’re barely making enough to survive on even as a low level manager.
While the waitstaff has particular challenges in U.S. labor law (lower effective federal minimum wage), it is not safe to assume any of the other workers in the chain are still paid a living wage either.
Ok but some people argue for paying tips outside the US too where this isn’t the case.
I have also heard owners ask about making a service charges mandatory instead of optional. They don’t like it when I point out they will now have to pay tax on it and try to ask about any other options in the POS software. No, if must be optional or tax must be paid.
I keep seeing this repeated in the comments. Apparently no one on Lemmy has actually worked in a restaurant before (because you’re all bots?), otherwise you’d know that a lot of cooks, dishwashers, etc don’t make a living wage either and split tips with the front-of-house staff. It’s not just the wait staff.
My point still stands though that it has nothing to do with overly entitled wait staff as the cartoon would suggest but an issue with tipping culture and the restaurant industries unwillingness to pay anyone a living wage
I’m not trying to single you out, like I said it seems like everyone here has the same misconception. But even if your point could stand on its own, it’s weakened when you support it with an unrealistic example. It hurts your credibility.
Small correction, $2.75 an hour against tips. In a lot of states it’s legal to withhold that $2.75 once they’ve made more than that in tips per hour. They only have to guarantee that you make minimum wage they don’t have to actually pay you it If you’re getting it paid by somebody else.
It’s because everyone except the wait staff gets paid a living wage. The waiter probably gets paid $2.75/hour because the shady restaurant owner wants YOU to pay the rest of their employees wage for them.
The problem is not overly entitled wait staff, it’s tipping culture in general. Any other job would pay at least normal minimum hourly wages.
Correct, except for saying everyone else is getting a living wage. I bet most of them are not. Still higher than the server.
Every step of that chain is nickel and dimed. Only the public facing employees get to ask for tips.
You ask wait staff if they prefer a stable wage or receiving tips. The overwhelming majority of them will want to keep tips.
It would be better if we eliminated tips overall and paid fair wages. But the people who directly benefit will still fight you on it.
Having worked in food service, and having many friends who do, I don’t know a single person who would rather keep tips. The majority have openly talked shit about tipping. Everyone I know hates tipping except the management that benefits from it.
I live in a very HCOL area and that probably has more to do with attitudes on tipping anything. Wait staff in this area can easily earn wages that are much, much higher than minimum wage with tips.
For example, the state in the US I live in does not have a lower base pay for wait staff. They’re making at minimum $17.13 an hour before tips.
And that’s why. For a lot of states they’re making like $2.75 before tips.
Plus, it’s also very relative to what exactly you are doing. A decent bartender can pull like $200+ a night on a weekend in tips.
Yep which complicates the conversation because all wait staff aren’t the same.
So you have bartenders in big cities scoffing at the idea of eliminating tips while there’s waiters in small diners barely surviving on minimum wage.
Plus then there’s the variance of the individual. If you’re naturally good with people, you’re likely to get tipped better. If you’re a pretty young girl, you’ll probably make decent money even if you’re not good with people, etc.
It’s such a complicated situation to talk about.
Which is why I think tipping should be eliminated.
Hard agree. It’s a shitty practice with shitty origins that allows companies to pay incredibly low wages and justify it with the idea that the employees should make up the difference with a nebulous performance-based appeal to customers’ sense of charity.
Cool. That restaurant, also being in a HCOL, could afford to pay those people a living wage without tips. You’re advocating for them to not have to do that.
Read more of my comments. I support fair, living wages and eliminating tipping.
Holy fuck I’ve got a friend that will die on the hill that you (customer) should tip, and generously every time. Given his experience with it, I agree to a point, but only because he willingly chose to dig heels into that job for better or for worse. I do tip because I feel it’s earned in most cases. I just don’t agree with being over the top about it for sure. Part of that is his personality too… And the more I think about it; fuck that guy.
People also choose individual lines at the cash registers rather than one shared line that splits into the next available opening. It doesn’t matter that it’s better on average, human intuition is really bad at statistics.
Is that still true? Even back when I has tipped workers as peers, their attitudes were mixed. If you have any polling data, that would be appreciated – but, I don’t have any data either, just vague memories.
I’m admittedly talking from a personal experience living in a HCOL area that does not have a lower wage for wait staff. Wait staff are paid $17.13 at minimum here and that’s before tips.
So it is area dependent. Probably.
When I had tipped peers, wait staff got $2.15/hr + tips. It certainly changes the calculus.
I’d much prefer a stable, livable wage over recieving tips.
The problem is that no one is making a livable wage. At least as a server, there’s (on average) a pretty direct correlation between skill & effort and your income, so a decent server is probably making enough to live on. If you’re working retail, you’re barely making enough to survive on even as a low level manager.
That’s what I meant by fair wages.
I completely agree.
While the waitstaff has particular challenges in U.S. labor law (lower effective federal minimum wage), it is not safe to assume any of the other workers in the chain are still paid a living wage either.
I’m not sure if that is the reason. In Ontario there is no separate minimum wage for servers, it’s $18/hour. But servers expect 20-25% tip.
Ok but some people argue for paying tips outside the US too where this isn’t the case.
I have also heard owners ask about making a service charges mandatory instead of optional. They don’t like it when I point out they will now have to pay tax on it and try to ask about any other options in the POS software. No, if must be optional or tax must be paid.
I keep seeing this repeated in the comments. Apparently no one on Lemmy has actually worked in a restaurant before (because you’re all bots?), otherwise you’d know that a lot of cooks, dishwashers, etc don’t make a living wage either and split tips with the front-of-house staff. It’s not just the wait staff.
My point still stands though that it has nothing to do with overly entitled wait staff as the cartoon would suggest but an issue with tipping culture and the restaurant industries unwillingness to pay anyone a living wage
I’m not trying to single you out, like I said it seems like everyone here has the same misconception. But even if your point could stand on its own, it’s weakened when you support it with an unrealistic example. It hurts your credibility.
I may have overgeneralized because the cartoon was so silly in its implication that the wait staff are somehow cheating fishermen out of tips
In a specific country
Small correction, $2.75 an hour against tips. In a lot of states it’s legal to withhold that $2.75 once they’ve made more than that in tips per hour. They only have to guarantee that you make minimum wage they don’t have to actually pay you it If you’re getting it paid by somebody else.