- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- memes@lemmy.ml
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Get a catio.
Don’t let cats kill more birds and amphibians. Cats being let outside has contributed to the extinction of countless species.
Also, lead walking! Most cats can be trained to be very receptive to lead walking especially if you start them young. Your cat still gets the enrichment from walking around outside and all the lovely smells and sights that entails but without the danger of cars or the cat killing everything is feels like.
Walking your cat is a great way to get them outside, but (depending on the individual) it’s quite different from walking a dog. Most cats aren’t very interested in the actual walking part of walks, and may be much happier finding a nice bush to sit under for half an hour. However a leash is a great way to keep your cat supervised and under control for outside visits, either in the back yard, around the block, or to a nearby park.
Other warnings: starting them young is ideal, but older cats can get used to the leash with a lot of patience (on both of your parts). Cats that were previously outdoor cats will have the most trouble adjusting to their loss of freedom, but indoor-only cats may be excited for the opportunity (or terrified: pushing your cat a little out of their comfort zone is okay but don’t overdo it!). A well-fitting harness/vest is crucial, and even then a very determined (or scared) cat can probably wriggle out so be prepared. Keep a very close eye on your cat’s emotional state and be ready to go home at signs of anxiety. Low-stress outdoor places (with few cars, dogs, screaming kids, etc, and with some form of cover like trees and bushes) are best especially to start. Treats and verbal encouragement, paired with small steps and lots of patience, are key! Above all stay consistent: once you’ve made the decision to make your cat leash-only, don’t let them go outside without it: your cat needs to make the connection that they have to be on a leash if they want to enjoy the outside.
I know they do a lot of killing and they fuck up the local ecosystem, but I never knew they actually made extinctions happen. What species?
https://gizmodo.com/8-species-driven-toward-extinction-by-cats-1848059691
Over half of pet cats in the U.S. spend time outside, and worldwide the animals have contributed to the extinction of at least 33 species, according to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service.
Sadly, it’s already too late for dozens of species, including the Stephens Island wren (a flightless songbird), the crescent nailtail wallaby, and the adorable desert bandicoot.
[Suprise the Trump admin seems to have taken that page down — sure there is an archive tho]
That is absolutely crazy. Thanks for sharing!
If you can’t or won’t let your cat outside then don’t get a cat. A zoo keeping a cat, big or small, inside with no access to outdoors would rightly be charged with animal cruelty.
Zoos don’t keep domesticated animals. The physical requirements are not the same, domestic cats are perfectly fine indoors as long as you give them any amount of stimulation. Zoos definitely don’t let their tigers out in public unattended
besides all the reasons not to, house cats that are let out are a plague on ecosystems.
Bigger issue imo is cats destroying wild life not the wild life destroying cats. Either way, keep your cat inside.
Some of us live in countries that don’t really have dangerous wild life and cats have been allowed outside for over 1000 years.
cats have been allowed outside for over 1000 years
That’s simply not true. There were never as many outdoor cats as there is today and cats used to have natural predators everywhere to keep environmental balance which is lost today. Keeping all of your pets indoors (or at least backyard) is the only ethically viable position.
Downvoted by people who don’t like facts. There isn’t a country in the world with a domestic cat population that wouldn’t see a huge benefit to their native wildlife by keeping those pets inside or in a pet run. But people don’t like the change or the effort of doing so, so they ignore this inconvenient fact.
Indeed, pet owners simply don’t want to hear the truth which is incredibly irresponsible.
Even if you really must let your cat out there are things you can do like colorful collars with an attached bell which:
The BBScc reduced the number of birds brought home by 37% (probability of reduction of 88%). The number of mammals brought home was reduced by 54–62%, but only with the additional bell (probability of reduction of >99%)
https://zenodo.org/records/15210938
I’ve never seen a cat owner who cares enough to even do that when we have clear evidence this works. The naturalist argument of “oh they are local animals” is such an irresponsible cop out where they can’t even bother to put a collar on to diminish the damage. It’s inexcusable laziness, nothing else.
Strap a collar so that your cat ends up crazy or hanged surely there wont be any animal cruelty after that right guys right ??
I bring you evidence you bring me imaginary anecdotes. OK.
There will be no need of evidence when its hanged
Btw i hope u wear a collar with a lil bell on it and u are tagged would be a shame to lose u…
Do you live in a building? Like something that was built by humans?
Then you have killed more animals than any cat will ever kill. Your continued use of any kind of lodging is killing animals.
Please stop living inside a man made structure and help destroy said structure so birds can live and take back their habitats.
After you do that, I will stop letting my 15 year old cat outside.
Have a great life!
Lmao what a stupid fallacy thats not even worth responding to. Bye
It’s OK, I thought what you wrote was not worthy of my time either, but then I decided to educate actual intelligent people, so I responded.
Im sure there are no birds in turkey, according to your logic.
>countries that don’t really have dangerous wildlife
>cats have been allowed outside for over 1000 years
Sounds like your country does have dangerous wildlife, you just like the predator more than the prey
Sure it used to but we killed them off centuries ago
Humans can sustain a large density of cats that wasn’t possible in the wild. If it’s a pet cat, don’t let it hunt. It will imbalance the ecosystem by adding too many predators who don’t depend on the prey for sustenance
I always love bringing out this good ol chart.
Fake news. Birds aren’t real.
Not a lick of urban sprawl in your fancy graphic. I wonder why?
Are you under the impression that being against urban sprawl is an unpopular opinion on Lemmy?
Im under the impression that saying that cats are the end of birds is asinine when all we do as humans is destroy habitat for all fauna.
Overly dramatic people who think their meat comes from a store are the same people who make this argument about cats.
Get over it, cats are not the genocidal maniacs you make them out to be, WE ARE.
Maybe letting cats out is one of the many ways we destroy habitat, and calling it out is valid?
Buildings, automobiles, power lines…
English isn’t your first language.
Thinking isn’t your strong suit.
so… cats are the most effective way to combat birds?
Bro someone send this chart to Australia, they can win EW2
Humans are dangerous wildlife not least because of our cars. That is why indoor cats live 10-20 years and outdoor cats 2-4
Where you live perhaps, I don’t know anyone that has had an issue here. As I said, some of us live in different countries.
But sure if you live next to a typical American 16 lane backroad you might not want to let them out.
Yeah I always found the argument absurd as I live on a paved over rectangle with a few square feet of grass my cat likes to poop on while he hangs out with the local squirrels. He is far too lazy to hunt anything, he killed a mouse that was actually inside the house many many years ago but has been a pacifist since. He is 15 he literally wants to sit in the sun and do nothing.
Of course there are some cats who will hunt, and their owners should not allow that. But the blanket statements about environmental impacts, while they cool their house with AC, burn fossil fuels to heat food and go to work, order crap on Amazon…just lacks perspective.
As a cat owner who works in the animal industry, you’re suffering from ‘my personal experience is reality-itis’.
You can’t ‘not allow’ your cat to hunt. The only chance you have is to keep it inside. Your old cat likely doesn’t hunt outside but to think it killed a single mouse it’s entire life, is delusional.
I don’t understand people like you. Can you not accept that there are shades of gray, and exceptions to every rule? I’m simply arguing that not all cats MUST be kept indoors no ifs ands or buts. I concede that many cats, young ones in particular, will kill small animals. My (rescue) cat was an indoor cat for most of his 15 years and only when I moved from a major urban city apartment building to a slightly less-urban city single family house did I let him outside under controlled circumstances. I straight up know he isn’t going around killing things. I didn’t go out and BUY this cat, I’m not actively contributing to breeding or anything. I have an animal that deserves to enjoy his old age.
I should probably not engage with you people and just keep my truth to myself.
Your particular circumstances are why YOUR particular 15 year old cat is great hanging in his own yard. It is not an argument in general even that SOME cats ought to be outdoor because they are overwhelmingly get killed and kill out there.
Your argument is so inapplicable to almost anyone else that its like saying your former ax murderer friend is totally safe because he’s taken up Buddhism and non-violence and is now mostly crippled.
Cats don’t always show you what they kill. I had a roommate that kept letting my cats out. Never saw them kill anything. Then my neighbor told me about how they were little murder machines while I was out at work. Tried taking out a whole near of baby birds.
I have cameras, and I work from home. He literally does not leave a fenced-in rectangle. I know for a fact he doesn’t kill anything.
It very well could be true. But I also don’t really think you’ve been able to watch your cat every moment of his outdoor life to know he literally never goes anywhere and has never killed anything. My cats are indoor only in a tiny apartment and I frequently can’t figure out where they are, even when I worked from home.
Well maybe ur cats snuk outside and killed animals how could u know
Because i live on the 4th floor of an apartment complex… i guess anything is possible, but sneaking out several doors and back would be impressive.
Bullshit and hearsay.
Those houses you both live in, how many animals were displaced to build them? How many died so your house can exist? You blame cats for the misery we as humans do to species of this planet. Sad
This is bullshit logic. We as adult humans already exist and have little choice about national housing policy. We can however choose not to contribute to suburban sprawl OR murder cats roaming the neighborhood whacking the wildlife. We can also choose not to have 12 children who will need space too. Not being able to do everything is a poor reason not to do anything.
You can choose to boycott the US, yet it will change nothing on capitalism existing, btw do u live in the US ? Because you are contributing in the most problematic country in history, please “choose” to leave the US
I can’t for practical purposes leave I’m poor and my wife is disabled
Those cats already exist, you dipshit. Adopt, don’t buy. Spay/neuter. Let them have an enjoyable life and move the fuck on.
Yes buddy I did adopt from the shelter I was volunteering at. In order to adopt you have to agree that the cat will not be allowed to roam outdoors because they don’t want to adopt to morons.
Urban sprawl as well.
These cat hater can’t even get their heads out of their asses long enough to realize that humans are the biggest issue for wild animals bar none.
We destroy their habitat faster than any cat can hunt, but the cats are literally Hitler in their eyes.
They are delusional in my eyes.
And you’re a fucking idiot. The cat is a tool of humans killing animals.
You are delusional in the majority of the population’s eyes.
Oh no, not the majority. Whatever will I do?
Your words are of an eloquence that would make a sow blush. Idiot indeed!
What a grasp of the English language you have; educate me more, Daddy.
I don’t think there’s much you can do, you’ll likely die the loser you are.
Best of luck, ggwp.
Oh no, some winner on the internet called me a loser from the safety of their device.
What shall I do?
It’s funny how I think that you guys are a bunch of losers for the exact same thing.
I guess we are at a Mexican standoff of losership.
A lot of those so called cat haters actually love cats. Did you know that outdoor cats have much shorter lifespans?
So, now you’re starving coyotes?
Let’s keep building houses and not talk about how that destroys countless species’ habitats.
No, let’s shit on cats for the misery WE cause.
Saying an animal can’t go outside because they are the Hitler of animals is so disingenuous and out of touch with reality.
Cats are animals and are in their element outside. Birds are not being massacred by cats. They are being massacred by humans, and you are a fool for thinking any different.
Maybe stop hating cats and start hating humans if you want to protect birds’ habitat from being destroyed.
Hypocrites, the lot of you.
We cause it both by building over all the habitat AND by letting cats loose. Since I have to live somewhere I won’t feel bad about existing but I’ also won’t be letting my cat out to make it worse. That said that is 99.9% because outdoor cats normally live 2-4 years and indoor cats live 10-20 years. May cat gets to go outside in a strolller/harness and otherwise gets to roam our floor of the apartment.
This lot is impossible to reason with, but I applaud your effort.
Birds are not being massacred by cats. They are being massacred by humans, and you are a fool for thinking any different.
Google is right there, dipshit
Insult me more, and i will change my mind, Daddy.
Why do we let humans go outside ???
to feed the bears
We’re too big for coyotes, know to stay away from bears, and can tell other people if we need rabies shots
You’re only too big for a coyote, packs will hunt lone humans
You don’t know that, they could be 20 ft tall
Cats deserve their freedom. If it’s not safe to let a cat out where you live, don’t get a fucking cat. They need an escape from your bullshit.
No, they decimate local bird population which are already in danger due to human development and pollution. In a perfect world where human factor was of no concern this wouldn’t be as controversial of a take.
Pft! You don’t seriously still believe in birds?!? My cat caught a tooth fairy the other day. Lol
It is better for the bird population, too.
Keep your kids inside too. Kids keep screeching and playing in the middle of the fucking road. Like, get out of the damn road, dumbasses. Someday, a car is gonna hit them.
Leash your pets, leash your kids. Be responsible. Smh
Non-dumbass parents understand that they aren’t raising children, but eventual adults. So yes, they have to balance boundaries and letting them fail and learn. Animals will never turn into the equivalent of adult humans. No, not even the absolute smartest animals ever born…
What if we are the dumbasses and not the smartest animals
I can’t take anyone seriously on cat welfare if they have a cat mutilated just to prevent furniture getting some scratch marks.
My cat loves her 6 C-size breast implants thank you very much. The reduced scratching is just a tangential benefit to her self image.
I believe discussion on this flares up now and then because it is an easy answer, tough decision.
If you make this decision for others: of course this is the most ethical thing to do, the data isn’t ambiguous.
If you are yourself affected: Oof. Yes it might be better for society, but personally I value this and that, and I am but one and would rather wait on legislation before I do anything.
We love to argue it because one side thinks experiencing it taints your view, the other that only reading data misses the point. Can be about indoor cats, vegan diets or pineapple on pizza, the argument itself never matters.
My Nextdoor app = 1000 I lost my cat posts daily.
I had a idea of how to stop them but my wife wouldn’t let me.
Respond with a picture of a coyote, bobcat, mountain lion, great horned owl or other predator with the caption, “Thank you for dinner, it was delicious.”
I have a friend whose neighbour literally watched their cat get eaten by a coyote in their backyard. The friend still let her own cat out in that same neighbourhood after that happened cause "oh he just keeps getting out, we don’t know how…"🙄 Poor guy got hit by a car some months later.
What a shitty pet guardian. My brother in-law’s cat escaped once and was immediately attacked by a coyote right outside his front door. The cat survived, but used up 8 of his lives. 😆 The difference is the rest of that cat’s life was spent happily living comfortably inside…
I lost my cat for a week once but he wasn’t an outdoor cat, he just snuck past as I was coming home in the dark once. It was so difficult to try to explain to people that no, he is not an outside cat, and please please help me get him back home because he doesn’t know how to get home. So many people in the neighbourhood saw him but they just assumed he was an outdoor cat and didn’t bother.
Thankfully I found him after many nights of going out to search for him, but I really can’t imagine people would’ve reacted the same to a lost dog.
This was like 15 years ago but I’m still in the habit of opening my door foot first now to make sure I push any curious kitties back before I walk in.
a lost dog will sometimes come to a rescuerer’s call. a cat almost never will.
Is this funny or just an excuse for Lemmy to get vocal and preachy
Holy crap…yes. leash your cats for the love of all that is fuzzy.
The anger people have when you tell them it’s neglect when you just let a cat roam free. It’s insanity. Your cat can easily just never come home or be found dead to many things, and they also destroy lots of wildlife and crap on people’s property with no respecting owner to clean up.
No one would take this from dogs…so why cats? It’s literally for their safety and the safety of other animals…its mind boggling and the downvotrs prove it
Here is a perspective from someone who has owned an inside/outside cat for the last 12 years. My cat is independent and resourceful and yes, contributes to ecodestruction by killing birds and mice occasionally. To me this is negligible compared to the ecodestruction of simply existing in a city. If I lived in nature I would not have a cat. I don’t think you can conflate my cat killing a pigeon twice a year in an urban environment with destroying the ecosystem.
It’s also disengenuous to ignore the quality of life improvements of having a cat who is free to explore vs. one locked in an apartment all day. I recently moved and am now experiencing this and it sucks. I feel terrible for restricting her freedom and she is visibly less happy. If you think animals are sentient and have emotions, and you care about the environment, then none of what we are currently doing makes any sense.
I do <insert bad thing> already so I don’t need to avoid doing <insert other bad thing> because I already do <bad thing> even though the nature of my effect on the world is the sum of my behavior and I’m really bad at logic.
Yup, and I’m the only one with agency in the whole world. It’s all about me.
literally everyone has agency.
Ok I see my sarcasm was lost on you so let me try again. There is nothing ethical about pet ownership or industrial civilization. If we cared about the well being of pets we wouldn’t keep them, and if we cared about the well being of the planet we wouldn’t build cities or burn fossil fuels.
I already have a cat. The above is moot for me. If I had to rethink this then maybe 12 years ago I would have made a different decision. At this point I am not going to euthenize my cat or blow up an oil pipeline. If you allow my cat agency then she should be allowed to explore her world and make her own decisions, just like the pigeons and rats that are forced to adapt to human civilization by eating garbage.
Anyway she’s safely locked away and miserable now so none of this matters.
Industrial civilization pre-dated me and my cat being from a shelter would have come into being without me. We all do what we can with what control we can. My cat is too stupid to protect himself because he doesn’t understand the risk of cars and not speaking english it’s difficult to teach him. Instead I choose to explore the outdoors with him instead of letting him roam and almost certainly get lost or killed because I’m not a moron and I don’t let my cat wander around a city.
Cats can live 20 years but most wont make it more than 3 outside because their instincts are ill suited for the circumstances.
How do you explore the outdoors with him? You take him hiking?
You are a human who thinks and cares about others and living creatures in nature, not a virtue signaler wanting points on the internet by shitting on cats. Thank you.
I witnessed basically this exact conversation once. We were in the exam room, and our vet stepped out to the computer in the hallway to show a woman her cat’s X-rays. Apparently it had been attacked by a dog and wouldn’t make it.
The vet literally said, “So what did we learn today? Don’t let your cat outside if you want it to live.”
Funny.
In Europe we’ve the same discussion for the opposite reasons.
Do not let the cat outside, it will kills other animals.
It’s really both. Eventually cat will get into an accident, but on the way there it will take a whole bunch of smaller animals and birds with it.
Never had a cat that got into an accident, though one of my current cats is an idiot when it comes to walking across the drive
This reads a bit like “that hasn’t happened to me so that doesn’t happen”.
“I don’t wear my seatbelt, but nothings happened so it’s probably fine”
This works for people with empathy who care. The former works for people who are selfish. Both are good to tell people. One may work where the other doesn’t.
birds are annoying and eat herbs in my garden, my cat eats slightly less of the garden and provides me with entertainment and bird removal.
The birds do a lot more for you than just eating herbs in your garden. You just aren’t aware of it, until they’re gone at least. Stop thinking you’re more important than the ecosystem.
there are so many birds and so much environment I don’t think a cat occasionally escaping from my house will do much harm.
Well guess what, most ecological destruction is caused by people with that exact mindset.
They think that cats kill every single bird and don’t think about what massive harm humans have done.
They are delusional and don’t understand nature and reality.
These people probably think meat comes from the grocery store.
I can’t fathom how out of touch you have to be to blame cats for everything humans have done. Sure, cats hunt, but to say they are destroyers of entire species is beyond delusion and into severe mental health territory.
Showing a graphic about how buildings kill fewer birds than cats is asinine and disingenuous, to say the least.
Maybe compare cats to urban sprawl to see what that says about who kills and displaced wild animals. Hypocrites the lot of them.
My brother in Christ, cats have made species go extinct because humans bring them everywhere. It’s our responsibility.
Let me get this clear. You think humans are responsible for the damage they cause to the environment and we should be aware and take responsibility for it, correct?
I don’t think anyone disagrees with that evaluation. However, our impact is not only limited to what we build. It also includes our actions. We have hunted species into extinction, which is bad, right?
If that’s bad, things we choose to bring with us we’re also responsible for, and hunting things out of extinction that don’t just go extinct from normal environmental changes is bad, then bringing cats with us that hunt things to extinction is bad, correct?
This isn’t saying they’re the only bad things were responsible for. That would be a ridiculous thing to believe. It’s just saying we are responsible for them, and they do cause damage to the ecosystem, including full on extinction events on occasion. (See: the other comment here that includes a list of species that no longer exist because of cats.) You agree, right?
