- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
- cross-posted to:
- leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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I am surprised how many liberals are on Lemmy that was billed to me as a traditionally more leftist space. Then again they were chased of reddit and have to make a shit bed somewhere.
Most .world users are just reddit users that got banned. And reddit has always been liberal to far-right.
They are too fucking ignorant to see social media was intentionally fragmented on Reddit and Twitter to prevent actual change. They weakened and diluted all organizational power by pushing towards Lemmy and Bluesky and have created toxic environments in both
There’s a bit of comedy in this, the reactionaries love bullying and pushing liberals away from those platforms. Then they get bored of them because there’s no one to “own” anymore. So they migrate to the platforms they went to. Just feel that most lemmy instances will shit stop a reactionary out of existence for a hint of being a CHUD.
300 years of liberals stabbing leftists in the back and literally training fascist kill squads to murder us yet they are shocked when we don’t consider them allies.
Are “leftist memes” in question the Stalin quotes or did I miss something?
Yup. Just like the famous quote in the meme.
Yeah, this comm is just a tankie circlejerk and whenever a NoTrueLeftist™ shows up and calls them tankies they go “Wahhh, shitlib!!!”
you can leave
So can you though? Let’s see if you can make me
I’m not the one whining about the vibe
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I agree with op. and yet here you are. one of these users is not like the others
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incapable of serious discussion and constantly revert to disingenuous, bad-faith arguments.
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What a terrible, shitty distortion of anything actually said.
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Cope.
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Idiots thinking that echo chambers are a good thing.
Echo chambers are not a good thing, but when liberals enter leftist spaces they bring their liberalisms and their arrogance with them and turn vile when it’s pointed out their methods are a failure no matter how many times they repeat them
Yet you’re building an echo chamber by excluding their comments. That’s how this works.
Most of the memes in here are not in any way constructive, they’re just attacks on capitalism, so it’s not like we’re fostering a useful dialog, expanding education, and advancing the cause here. It’s just whipping up emotions.
The only comments excluded are the ones defending empire.
You say empire like it’s a capitalist thing. Empires existed long before capitalism. I’m not trying to be a problem here, I fully support a transition away from Capitalism in many industries, but your black and white worldview pushed by emotions is just not helpful in the real world.
While capitalism has many problems, and bad problems at that, the alternatives all have their own significant problems as well. To me, a mixture of economic systems based on industry and necessity would result in the best outcome for people, which is my only real goal. Real estate should not be capitalist, the government should own all land or it should be handled as a communism system. Socialism works well for many other necessities, like utilities, basic food, healthcare, etc. I don’t mind capitalism remaining for luxuries, it does a good job in that style of market where it allows opportunity and flexibility that the other two systems can’t compete with.
So you want socialism as long as you can still have the exploitation under capitalism. Which are essentially saying is that you don’t want to give up the privileges the status quo has provided you.
This was specifically addressed in 1937 by Mao in Combat Liberalism:
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm
Liberalism stems from petty-bourgeois selfishness, it places personal interests first and the interests of the revolution second, and this gives rise to ideological, political and organizational liberalism.
People who are liberals look upon the principles of Marxism as abstract dogma. They approve of Marxism, but are not prepared to practice it or to practice it in full; they are not prepared to replace their liberalism by Marxism. These people have their Marxism, but they have their liberalism as well–they talk Marxism but practice liberalism; they apply Marxism to others but liberalism to themselves. They keep both kinds of goods in stock and find a use for each. This is how the minds of certain people work.
There is exploitation under all systems that involve more than 1 human being. Capitalism is just more overt about it. Classless society is not possible, human nature does not allow for it. Humans are smart monkeys, we did not evolve to be members of tribes of thousands, let alone millions or billions. Our brains simply aren’t wired that way. As much as I’d love to live in some wonderful utopia where everyone is equal, even when two people are equal today they still fight each other.
Yet you’re building an echo chamber
Yet you’re still here. Curious for an echo chamber
In a place where speaking about building data centers in an ecologically- responsible manner is unanimously rejected.
People really don’t like seeing nuance to things
“Nuance” has really just become the other end of “its not that deep.”
That’s because no one needs a data center, so even if it’s ecologically responsible, it’s still a waste of time, money, energy, resources, and space.
Several otherwise intractable problems are being solved. New medical treatments such as a Parkinson’s medication. The management of the containment field of a fusion reactor. New materials research. You just don’t see those. You only see cat videos. What I see is a lot of folks desperate to get their hands on this equipment to do all kinds of actual valuable work.
What I see is a few folks desparate to get their hands on the money and personal data of the working class. How many data centers do we already have? If the oligarchs weren’t so busy convincing society that ai is necessary for every single aspect of existence, they wouldn’t need new ones, we could devote all existing centers to actually doing the helpful things you’re talking about. Instead they’re devoted to performing web searches and making child porn. Haven’t you wondered why those desparate folks you see don’t already have their hands on the equipment? It’s because the people in charge don’t want to solve those problems, they just want to see line go up.
I appreciate your view. There are a lot of things wrong with society. And capitalism is a big one. But I believe your anger is misplaced - on the things rather than the people.
I wish you the best.
Thanks! I guess I don’t know what you mean though, are you saying I’m angry at things and should be angry at people or that I’m angry at people and should be angry at things? Because if you reread my last comment, clearly I’m angry at the people, not the things. And anger at inanimate objects is unhelpful, so I’m guessing that’s not what you meant? Honestly asking, not trying to be a dick.
Regardless, I still don’t see a reason we need more data centers when most of the ones we already have are societally useless, if not fully destructive.
it’s not that universally rejected. more like 90% reject it.
Follow the crowd. Always the best path to truth.
Ah, but have you considered go fuck yourself?
Is there an option in mod tools to remove your community from the karma sorting algorithm and instead make it subscriber only? Because I’d wager you’re complaining about outsiders, considering the number of subscribers.
Not complaining, just pointing out. This isnt something that only happens here, it’s every leftist space
Your memes about how there’s no difference between Obama and Trump shows up on the front page of every instance. Maybe don’t publicly advertise your memes if you don’t want a public response.
I don’t care about the response.
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Happy cake day
Significantly less so on .ml, but otherwise yeah
Criticism and exclusion have conflicting goals. Criticism is about inciting critical thinking and reflection, hopefully change. It allows for more engagement across viewpoints and builds cohesion. Exclusion reinforces bubbles and pushes communities to senescence.
Not really. Any open space is just going to be dominated by the majority viewpoint simply through numbers and if you don’t have walled gardens it becomes impossible to discuss contrary perspectives. Most of the “critiques” that liberals bring to the table are just repeating the same talking points over and over, accusing us of being Russian bots or secret Trump supporters or whatever, and repeating the same pointless arguments over and over again.
Even if two people try to have an intelligent conversation in good faith, the fact that people are waiting to jump down someone’s throat or take things out of context and go like, “Aha! This proves you’re secretly an accelerationist!” colors the conversation and keeps everyone on guard. It’s the same concept of if you let conservatives/reactionaries into a space, their perspective adds nothing to the conversation and makes it harder to discuss anything intelligently.
This is the whole concept of the fediverse, tbh. To allow for “walled gardens” that can still have opportunities to interact with each other. My ideas are far more challenged in spaces where I share certain basic assumptions than they would be by anything liberals or reactionaries have to say.
By going sub only you also prevent a lot of in-group from finding it while leaving the gates open to raiders/trolls…
For people not engaging with the ideas you have moderation which may take a community lead approach towards rules and actions. Slap on wrist, temp bans, and longer term bans work for individual bad faith actors. Honestly this works well on dbzero even if its not “perfect”.
A better argument for more aggressive exclusionary action I can see is if the community’s moderation efforts are overwhelmed leading to moderator burnout.
The fediverse is focused on creating social media platforms on an open framework without the pitfalls of corporate run closed platforms. The ability to create walled gardens is a feature of that greater endeavour.
I think one of the greatest challenges the left has is to combat the learned helplessness of liberal society which leads to such things as bootlicking propaganda regurgitation. Because state and corporate media have immense resource investment and capture this is always going to be a battle fought by talking with individuals who haven’t been pushed to think so critically about their inherited philosophical position. Fighting that change is just part of learning.
Ahh the follow up to yesterday’s post!
Imagine continuing to promote infighting while a fascist dictatorship is forming
Infighting suggests liberals are on the same side as leftists. Liberlas have enabed that fascism you claim to be fighting
Keep on fighting the fight that leads to worse outcomes - feelings over results, I always say!
The one that leads to worse outcomes is pretending liberals are reasonable people and won’t just implement fascism themselves to prevent socialism.
It’s 50 years of liberals being liberals that has resulted in worse outcomes
When leftists say abolish the police, liberals side with the police.
When leftists say abolish borders, liberals side with border enforcement.
When leftists seek to dismantle fascist systems of oppression, liberals side with the fascists.
Leftists calling out the hypocrisy of liberals is not infighting, it is an open attack against an enemy that cosplasys as left while actively aiding and abetting fascist ideolgies with “both sides have valid points” bullshit.
Liberals want to go back to Obama’s America, but refuae to reconcile with the fact that Obama’s America still dropped bombs on schools and used violent force to deport immigrants and attack marginalized communities.
Liberals only want business as usual, with the violence kept out of their line of sight. Leftists are actively seeking to dismantle systems of oppression, and replace them with systems that take action to reduce harm. They are not the same.
Liberal is not left. It’s been conflated to mean that in the minds of reactionaries so anyone further left than they are appear as the enemy.
Liberals are not on the “in” with leftists. It’s just normal fighting. And I hope one day the libs will lose.
Man…some people in these comments need to log off. Just step away, homies. Let’s get that autonomous nervous system regulated so we’re not having activation over disagreeable texts on the screen 🥀🥀🥀
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fascism grows from liberal democracy. so preventing liberal progress is good, actually.
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that’s an oxymoron.
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I’m fairly convinced by this comment that you’re not aware of what fascism is. Because while we can all deplore the horrors of the Khamer Rogue there is no way to describe it as capitalist. Yet you cannot be a fascist without capitalism. Essentially that’s what fascism is, capitalism in overdrive. You’re talking about authoritarianism, of which there is plenty to deplore.
The word fascism comes from fascia. It literally derives from the idea of grouping up to defeat the “power”. If you can’t see the similarities between that idea and whatever the communistic fascists are doing, you’re delusional. The main defining feature of fascism that applies on both sides of the economic spectrum is the dismantling of the democratic process. When i say dismantling, i mean actively removing elections entirely, as they are no longer necessary. It shares more similarities with monarchy, than any of the economic systems.
All of the above are textbook fascistic regimes.
Fascism comes from the Latin word “fasces” which was the bundles of rods wrapped around an axe carried around by the state escorts of Roman dictators (and other magistrates of sufficient authority). Yet despite this symbol of extreme executive Authority nobody calls the Roman Republic and the dictators or magistrates that served it fascism. Because fascism is much more than authoritarian dictatorship.
Bonito Mussolini viewed fascism as the merging of state and corporate power. That his version of state capitalism was the way to ‘save’ capitalism. Denying capitalism’s place on the evolution and perpetuating of fascism is simply ludicrous. Fascism is the end result of capitalism. Its where it inevitably ends. They cannot exist without each other.
Your definition, in direct contradiction to the founder of fascism, is so absurdly broad so as to be pointless. Again authoritarianism is not the same as fascism. Nor is monarchy. You’ve painted such an incredibly vague picture here that you would have to define 98% of human government in all of history as fascist. Which is absurd.
communism is a stateless classless society. fascism is a rigidly stratified society that venerates the state. you can’t be a communist fascist.
True, but there’s plenty of fascists who claim to be communists.
fascists lie.
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sounds like those aren’t communist societies
Don’t you remember the Stalinist paradise that the USSR was in the 50’s!?
OK. You are just a fucking idiot. Communism and fascism are the polar opposite ends of the political scale.
You are calling water dry.
Let me guess, your solution to actual improvement is voting for the people that have creative conditions we’re currently in.
