• db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      77
      arrow-down
      7
      ·
      edit-2
      3 days ago

      It’s a joke, but “leftist” is such a wide term that it encompasses groups which don’t really want to do much with each other, such as anarchists, bernie-bros, and ~red fash~ tankies marxist-leninists. Anarchists tend to not hate anarchists for example.

      • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 day ago

        Here we go again, an anarchist calling Marxists leninists “red fash”. What country destroyed Nazism, please remind us.

              • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                1 day ago

                Seriously though, I don’t know how anarchists can look at the consequences of the Perestroika, Glasnost and eventual dissolution of the Eastern Block, the millions of lives lost to unemployment, alcoholism, drugs and suicide, and still use the word “tankie” (coined to degrade the communists in support of the intervention of the USSR in Hungary when it went down that very path).

                • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 day ago

                  It’s precisely because we saw the path of the USSR. Because we can see that ML regimes always leads to oppression and capitalism. They’re just another way to convert poor agrarian/feudalist societies to capitalism and have no socialist potential. Terrible system.

                  • volodya_ilich@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    1 day ago

                    Because we can see that ML regimes always leads to oppression and capitalism

                    Marxism-Leninism saved Eastern Europe from Nazism, the level of genocide we would have seen in Eastern Europe if it hadn’t been for the existence of the USSR is unimaginable. Anarchists, on the other hand, have been proven absolutely incapable of stopping fascism, as was the case of the Spanish Second Republic, with some Anarchist unions such as the CNT numbering ONE MILLION members, and refusing to take action against the growth of fascism because “taking action would make us as bad as them :(”. The consequence were 40 years of fascist dictatorship. At least AES countries, flawed as they were, can claim to bring industrialization, wealth redistribution, meaningful fight against fascism, a stop to unequal exchange, solid and moral geopolitical positions and support for emancipatory movements elsewhere in the world. Anarchism doesn’t have a single serious historical claim other than Rojava and Zapatistas, two extremely small movements without much potential for growth, with one of them directly supporting the regional interests of US imperialism.

                    You’re buying the framework of the ruling class of your country, ask yourself why you reach the same conclusions about socialism than libs

      • drolex@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        44
        ·
        3 days ago

        No I don’t disagree with you! But you are still somewhat wrong! Hey social traitor, I’m splitting and creating my own leftist memes! These will be actual trotskyist memes, unlike your bourgeoisie-tainted memes!

        rinse and repeat

    • DJDarren@thelemmy.club
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      26
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      3 days ago

      Most conservatives are able to band together regardless of whether another of them is too racist, or too capitalist. They’re able to look past flaws in that regard.

      Meanwhile, we lefties fight among ourselves for not being left enough, or for being too left. It’s why there are very few leftist governments.

      • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        3 days ago

        Nonsense. conservatives inflight and even kill each other all the fucking time. This is a myth promoted by “left unity” leftists, and “big tent” libs to force everyone to follow them.

        • DJDarren@thelemmy.club
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          15
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          3 days ago

          Aye, they do, but when it comes to voting they unify.

          Take the UK for example. Of our three main parties the Conservatives are, well, conservative, Labour are (ostensibly) leftwing, and Liberal Democrats are centre-left.

          In the end, most of my 44 years have been spent under a series of Tory governments because leftists who don’t see Labour as left enough don’t vote out of protest, and leftists who see Labour as too left will vote Lib Dem. Meanwhile, those in the centre or on the right will vote Tory. Sure, there are far right parties here, but they’re mostly cranks and outright racists.

          We only have a Labour government right now because the Tories went too lunatic and Starmer’s lot shifted enough to the centre to attract those who would vote LibDem.

          Prior to our last election, I saw a whole bunch of fellow lefties going apeshite because Starmer isn’t leftwing enough, and still crying that Corbyn was fucked over (which, to be fair, he was), so much so that I genuinely feared for five more years of Tories reaming us. There was very little room for pragmatism.

          • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            8
            ·
            3 days ago

            As somebody who was an EU immigrant in the UK for over a decade and also lived in other countries of Europe, lets just say that New Labour are plain Rightwing (so, not even Center-Left, although the original Labour definitelly were Leftwing) and the Liberal Democrats are pure rightwing (whislt the Tories have been Far Right since at least the Leave Referendum).

            The ideology of “Thatcher’s Greatest Achievement” - a “relaxed about wealth” ideology which loves privatisation and derregulation - which took over Labour is not Left of center and the LibDems have always been even more Neolibs than that.

            The Overtoon Window in England (not as much the other UK nations) is way to the Right of the rest of Europe, so its understandable that many there think that when they neither grew up back in the days when Labour was actually a party of the Working Class and never saw politics elsewhere in Europe.

          • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            11
            ·
            3 days ago

            It’s because voting is useless. Many leftists don’t bother with voting and focus on things that actually work.

            • DJDarren@thelemmy.club
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              4
              ·
              3 days ago

              It might be useless, but ultimately it’s the only tool that the majority have at their disposal.

              • nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                edit-2
                3 days ago

                Leftists have never been the majority though so we can’t rely on voting to adress our issues and interests. Last time I saw numbers more Ameicans wanted a party to the right of the Republicans than Americans who wanted a party to the left of Democrats. We’re the absolute political minority yet many of our policies poll higjer than candidates from either party.

              • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.comOP
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                9
                arrow-down
                3
                ·
                3 days ago

                Direct action isn’t directly “trying to overthrow the government” It’s trying to improve one’s own life directly, instead of begging the elites to do so for you.

        • EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          3 days ago

          The Republicans have bred a cult that makes up the core of their voting block, though. This is how Trump originally got into the primaries and then elected. He pulled the cultists away from their masters and they couldn’t control the new MAGA cult.

          Both my grandfather before he died and my first boss had the same exact reaction if you asked who they were voting for. They’d look at you like you’d grown an extra head and reply, “I’m a Republican. I vote for the nominee.”

    • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      3 days ago

      It is very easy for people without a credible shred of leftist thought to claim to be a leftist.

      Challenging those people winds up being an example of ‘leftist infighting’.