(this is a sarcastic post meant to highlight the absurdity of some of the “greater good” rhetoric we’ve been hearing, especially around leaving vulnerable populations like disabled people behind in case of revolution, basically accelerationism)
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Fight all you want, by all means, bring those in power further left. But at the ballot box come election day, I don’t care if the dem wants to sacrifice puppies on weekends. Guaranteed their Republican opponent has a factory grinding puppies into various consumer products by the millions. And their 3rd party counterpart likely has a greater chance of getting elected to mayor of flavortown than to congress/president (and also still probably kills puppies casually among friends themselves).
Is this system bullshit? Yup. Is it the one we got? Yup. We need to deal within that reality. By all means, let’s work to change that system, but for the love of God, let’s not shoot ourselves in the foot when our favorite candidate doesn’t stand a chance in hell, or the more likely candidate is blatantly flawed (but still better than the alternative)
100%. Prior to Election Day? Get a democratic butt in every race and challenge the people advocating for puppy sacrifices.
Unfortunately we are at a point where only one party can be fixed.
Buddy this post is about leftists. You are not a leftist. You’re a left-leaning liberal. Read a book ffs.
The problem is, all that fighting, criticizing and finger pointing can be weaponized. That’s why FUD works.
You just amplify any legit concerns until they seem worse than Trump.
I’m convinced most of the leftists on here are either foreign actors or repeating their talking points.
I agree. It’s important to not lose the thread or your sense of reality when focusing on internal problems. Internal problems are usually differences of opinion, perspective, or goals, but with the same or similar basic values behind them. It’s important to keep those shared values in mind even while nitpicking the other stuff when you’re trying to influence the direction of your side. Keep in mind that you are all going generally the same direction while the Right is pulling against every step you take together, and just because your differences among the Left is your focus now doesn’t mean it is a bigger deal than your differences with the Right.
The Neoliberals have had 50 years in control of the “leftist” party, and they have only enabled the country to move further right.
They are either impotent or complicit.
This election the Neoliberals will either lose control of the party or we start a new leftist party. If they try to shove another milquetoast neolib down our throats they might get elected, but then the next Trump gets elected after 4 years of impotence and the cycle of the Duopoly continues.
Obvious bad faith argument. Voters and gerrymandering from the GOP moved the country further right.
The country will move left when leftists start winning elections.
Which is much less likely now that Trump is in office.
My bad I must have forgotten the part where Democrats, the “leftist” party of unions and ending slavery, wasn’t allowed to ever gain power in my lifetime, and that’s why they have done absolutely nothing to protect unions and push leftist policy.
OH WAIT A DEMOCRAT GETS ELECTED EVERY 4 YEARS AND THEN FUCKING MEETS FASCISTS IN THE MIDDLE, MOVING US FURTHER TO THE RIGHT.
No one is “allowed” to take power. There is a constant struggle for it. Leftists have been losing that struggle because they don’t get enough votes.
Dems move right because it is a politician’s job to cater to their constituents regardless of their ideology. If there are fewer leftist constituents then the politicians move right.
Ahh yes, that’s why Republicans do such a good job representing the normies and leftists in their constituents, because they represent all of their constituents, right?
Your brain is mush if you seriously believe it’s perfectly OK for Dems to move right and repugs to also move right…
Kamala voters in a nutshell
Anything that gets you to target people with less power than you is a psy-op.
There is only one group of people to oppose. It’s a small group of extremely wealthy people. All their mouthpieces on the internet are irrelevant (and likely bots) and are best ignored/blocked.
There is one small, powerful group who are the only justifiable targets. Everything else is a distraction and likely a divide-and-weaken tactic.
One small group of powerful, wealthy people. That is the enemy. No one with less power than you is worth focusing on.
I know that you’re really concerned about being stabbed with knives. But you just need to accept the Hard Truth that you not being stabbed with knives is losing political issue! Really, that’s why we’re losing elections. You can’t have everything that you want. And you need to see where the other side is coming from…
vs
I know that you’re really concerned about being stabbed with knives. One of these candidates is implicitly okay with you being stabbed with knives, and the other wants to personally stab you with even more knives. I recognize the injustice in this and will therefore vote for neither of them! (the worse one won and now you’re being stabbed with even more knives)
Who will win? (spoiler: I don’t know but certainly not you because you’re too busy being stabbed with knives)
this is why so many people had an issue with the Democrat party platform of “let’s sacrifice Palestine”
Difficult to raise this amongst friends but one 2022 story came to mind
https://www.vox.com/policy/385549/trans-sports-transgender-biden-harris-democrats-titleix
PS: obviously my conflict is about “fight for 1% of athletes vs. lose election to Hitlerguy and harm like 50% of the population”, to oversimplify greatly
I bet we could get even more of these conservatives on our side if we promised to repeal gay marriage. Let’s try that, too
Ooh, and we could get even more people if we promised to put the Jews in camps
Do you think we would have won in 2008 if we made everything gay marriage all the time?
You wait for the right moment,with the right issues.
You think Trump won by running on sending US citizens to El Salvador?
This stupidity is why they always, always, always win,you fucking child.
Ok, and who exactly do you think is making trans people’s rights a big issue?
The problem with this is that it assumes Democrats have no agency. Democratic politicians have treated trans issues like those crusty old male Dems who don’t like saying the word abortion.
Dems have never provided loud and full-throated support to trans issues. Go watch the recent John Oliver video on trans sports. There are very very good arguments on why excluding trans people from sports is incredibly anti-scientific and just thinly disguised bigotry. But Democratic politicians have never bothered developing the talking points to defend trans people, like they have for other core issues.
Look at how Kamala responded when asked about trans issues. She didn’t provide full-throated support to trans people. Her reply was simply, “I’ll follow the law.”
Democrats have completely failed to defend trans people. They’ve quietly passed a few state level anti-discrimination laws, but in terms of rhetoric, they’ve completely ceded the space to conservatives. The only mainstream voices talking about trans issues have been the anti-trans bigots. The Democrats have instead just called the whole issue a distraction and hoped it would all just blow away.
They’re right that it is a distraction, an artificial one concocted by Republicans. But that doesn’t mean they can just ignore it.
Propaganda works. And if you don’t do the hard rhetorical work to fight it, it eventually does change public opinion.
Propaganda works. And if you don’t do the hard rhetorical work to fight it, it eventually does change public opinion.
yeah it never works on you, no sir… we’re all a lot better because everyone stood by their principles and punished the bad biden/harris team, yep, so much better.
those trans people, they’ll be safe now.
those kids in gaza, I’m sure now that trump’s won he’ll make sure they’re safe.
Yeah this all punishing those bad bad dems you’ll show 'em.
stupid fucking liberals, when will they learn their lesson.
working out great.
Trans people were being maimed and killed under Biden too, nothing changed for the trans people in the red states, violating the 14th amendment under Biden’s watch. Trump won’t care, Biden could have cared and chose not to.
Kids in gaza were being murdered and bombed under Biden too, nothing changed for them when a blue guy signs off on bombs or a red guy signs off on bombs. Trump won’t care, Biden could have cared and chose not to.
One is honest in being evil and hating people. It’s in the name “Republican.” The other pretends to tolerate you, and then throws you under the bus come election season to appeal to the greater evil’s voting base, who wants the most evil and won’t vote for a lesser evil.
keep telling yourself they’re the same bud.
lie to yourself all you want. calling it the same is ridiculous and you know it.
ya done fucked the pooch on this one so bad it’s going to wreck the whole fucking thing, but hey, you stuck to your convictions, no matter how short sighted.
gonna block you now, have a wretched life living through the consequences you brought on yourselves.
No war but the class war. Everyone you disagree with is an ally in waiting except billionaires.
Until you somehow “deal” with the billionaires. Then you’ll all kill each other.
Lol humanity existed before oligarchs and kings.
It didn’t. Someone is always in charge.
Lol, capitalist education system at work.
Hurdur. Name a period in time where people weren’t ruled. Either in a tribe or in an empire there is a leader or group of leaders in charge. There has never been a time when that isn’t the case. People naturally create governing hierarchies.
it feels hypocritical to post about infighting while inciting arguments and heated discussion, and not offer any solutions.
The solution is to stop letting perfect be the enemy of good.
You have a strange definition of perfection.
And and even stranger definition of “the good” tbh.
And what would that be?
Seems like you’re characterizing the dems as “good”. Aren’t they the “lesser evil”?
Heh Penis Prager
This is the fart side shat
Good good, let the hate flow through you. Purity is what matters, not affecting change. Go now, inquisitor.
Be Democrat
Compromise on all your ideals and field the most mediocre candidate
Lose to Donald Trump
You Lemmy progressives need to be honest with yourselves. If “not a fascist” wasn’t enough to make you vote for Harris there isn’t a candidate in the universe that would have passed your purity test. It’s almost like you actually wanted Trump to win.
I bet you most leftists that use alternative media like lemmy DID vote for Harris. You’re screaming at all the lemmings still over at Reddit…
I’m convinced they are bad actors. With all the damage Trump is doing they still complain about the alternative like they are campaigning for the GOP.
Seriously lemmy can be wild in this regard. I got a death threat for implying democrats were better than Republicans.
I’m not in love with many of their policies, they don’t go nearly far enough, but like damn they’re obviously the better choice
Lemmy Democrats did their strategy, lost, and blame leftists. Talk about being in denial.
That strategy won the majority of elections since the 90s.
Trump lost by more in 2020 and repeated his strategy just to win. Too bad he didn’t follow the leftist strategy of complaining and not trying to win.
He complained a lot. He complained after winning. The difference is, Trump campaigned to win right wing losers… The problem is… so did Kamala.
This constant blaming the left for Democrats’ failure is the true psyop, and you seem to be foolish enough to play along…
He didnt just complain without trying to win. Like leftists are popular for doing.
Kamala campaigned to everyone. Trying to reach as many voters as possible because that is a prerequisite for winning elections and a reason leftists don’t win elections.
Russia needed Trump to win for their invasion. It is public knowledge that their strategy is to create infighting in the US so we are more divided and don’t get anything done. This is done by trying to push the right further right and the left further left.
We already know the GOP campaigns with the goal of preventing Dems from winning.
Kamala campaigned on making the wealthy pay their fair share so the billionaire class didn’t want her to win.
These are the obvious sources of “psyops” that are rampant on the internet right now.
This constant blaming the left for Democrats’ failure is the true psyop
This doesn’t even make sense.
Oh I voted for Harris (and am also not the person you replied to) but “Compromise on all your ideals” describes the trajectory of the Kamala candidacy quite well. And that’s best case. Worst case, as the atlantic suggested way back in 2020, she didn’t share those ideals to begin with.
And that sprint to the right that she made didn’t move the needle on R voters at all. She should have campaigned like she wanted Democrat votes, but she didn’t. She talked a lot about her Glock and got cozy with the war criminals of the prior generation, didn’t talk much about climate change, and even gave space on stage to Liz Cheney at the DNC instead of even giving a single minute to a pro-Palestine Democrat, to try getting some of the basket of deplorables to pick her. None of them did, and it didn’t make Democrats very happy either.
Maybe if the Democratic candidate had acted like she wanted Democrat votes, this map would have looked different in the end.
Keep going… What drives turnout? Citizen campaigning.
Maybe if leftists didn’t spend the year leading up to the election protesting the better candidate we would have seen a better outcome.
I voted for Jill Stein, who’s anti-genocide, among other things. The left needs to support more anti-genocide candidates.
The Democrats policy on Palestine seems pretty fascist to me.
But every single mainstream Democrat is just as fascist outside of the US as the Republicans. They proved that when they didn’t do anything about a genocide. They are also increasingly fascistic in the US as they demonstrated by being better at deportations than the Republicans. (Also, regularly breaking with Democrat voters to side with MAGA in Congress/Senate).
The Democrats are the same team as the Republicans, they just use different language.
If “not a fascist” wasn’t enough to make you vote for Harris
if they want this title then maybe they shouldn’t have been arming and defending the extermination campaign in Palestine
The problem is that the democrats have been name calling for so long, that calling anyone fascist holds no weight. No one cares, they simply don’t believe the democrats.
And so you need a bigger platform than “I’m not a republican”.
Tankies justifying slave labor “only 10% of industries were built with gulag forces” calling socialist countries that succeeded with market socialism revisionist “Tito is a revisionist prick delaying global Revolution” and then not even batting an eye to the worse state capitalism that USSR and china engaged in “it improved the lives of people! No, it wasn’t authoritarian! And yes, the party members we sent to gulags and killed were DEFINITELY anti revolutionists and not trying to stop the state capitalism that was forming.”
Tankies… calling socialist countries that succeeded with market socialism revisionist “Tito is a revisionist prick delaying global Revolution”
Hate to break it to you but supporting Tito would make you a tankie in the eyes of most people on Lemmy who use the term (though you may get a pass for denouncing others).
This is why leftists consistently lose elections.
Low-key truth here
This post could actually be the psy-op. Spread the idea that infighting is happening to then create it
“Left unity” IS the psy-op. The notion that leftism is some sort of singular concept that is harmonious with all forms of itself. What a great manipulation. There are good ways to do leftism and bad ways. Anyone who tells you different is intentionally trying to create divisiveness of the known differences in approaches to leftism to agitate leftists and gaslight them into thinking there is an ideal and that the ideal is only achievable if they all somehow agree. But as they never will as this doesn’t make sense, these contradictions positioned as truths are the manipulation used to destabilize any movements. For any success of movement leftists will need to agree to disagree or one will have to over power the other.
I see it quite a lot, personally. Democrats are blaming other Pro-palestine democrats for not voting for pro-Israel candidates.
US Dems are center-right, not leftists.
They’re taking about leftists, not Democrats.
