This is the exact same logic that was used to defend AOC and Bernie when they were skibi-rizzling the kids into social fascist Liberal Zionism because “AOC has done more for socialism than you ever have!” and “she’s moving the overton window left!” was screamed at you when you applied any Marxist critique to this well worn centuries old pattern of succ dem bullshit.
Stop using Liberal utilitarian “lesser evil” logic. It’s idealistic and fake and repeatedly is leading you to disgusting places, like defenses of Platner because of “lesser evil”. I always see it used when defending liberalism and bad ideas, that the bad ideas must be taken seriously and respected because the person pushing them has done so nebulous “praxis” and has a net positive karma score or whatever the fuck Liberal shit is going on in one’s mind palace to justify this nonsense.
Bernie and AOC have passed bills in into law that have “a net positive impact on the working class”. Doesn’t that get them points too? This entire point system is stupid and an idealist way to see the world. Either their views are correct or they are not. No amount of charitable or “correct” actions makes their stupid incoherent and social chauvinist views correct.
Doing it in a thread where we are criticizing him (correctly) for his worldview leading him to supporting a Nazi mercenary social fascist accused of SA. That’s where you feel you must de-rail threads to “give credit” to Hasan and make excuses, downplay everything, and ask that we don’t spread memes mocking him. Read the room. This shit is not needed. You are repeating the exact Liberal arguments and ideas which led us here in the first place, and you are demonstrating you have learned nothing and will do it again just like Hasan. You’ve got the same brainrot that leads to these ends, the same neural pathways going to the same tired idealist lib arguments and excuses, like water flowing down a hill in the worn ruts. We’ve heard it time and time again at this point, do you think it is helpful to chime in at this moment?
1st comment: Please don’t mock Hasan, this is very serious we must defend him from reactionaries
2nd comment: Uhh… actually he went to Cuba so it makes up for everything bad and wrong he ever said. Stop mocking him.
3rd comment: Hasan actually is educating Gen Z and making more based lefties! It’s moving the overton window! He’s done praxis so now you cannot criticize him you ultra.
Overton window is idealist and fake. You are just proving your brain works in the wrong way, and it’s likely because Hasan’s stupid streams programmed that into you. Stop using idealist utilitarian analysis. I reject everything you are saying as complete unscientific bunk. The worsening conditions of our economy lead to the growth in the anti-capitalist left, Bernie is an opportunist riding a wave. He did not create it, and he only used its energy and diverted it into the Democrat Party.
You keep completely ignoring my points about your idealist worldview. It’s fake. There’s no such thing as overton window. There’s no such thing as lesser evil. These are fake Liberal things that you accept as real and that shape your imagination of what is possible, and how the world works, and what strategies you should employ to change it. I please beg of you to read Marx.
I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism.
This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie’s ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas
That isn’t what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie’s popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn’t just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called “”“overton window”“” can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas.
Privation alone isn’t enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That’s why you need a vanguard party, and that’s why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn’t in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they’re poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants.
But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party.
They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit.
His messaging was so misleading that we’re still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched.
If you don’t like Hasan, don’t like Platner and don’t believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it’s not what you believe?
![[CW: nazi shit] pram glatner](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d4af645b-807d-4c1d-9187-cd6464a0fb9c.png){kind=link}
This is the exact same logic that was used to defend AOC and Bernie when they were skibi-rizzling the kids into social fascist Liberal Zionism because “AOC has done more for socialism than you ever have!” and “she’s moving the overton window left!” was screamed at you when you applied any Marxist critique to this well worn centuries old pattern of succ dem bullshit.
Stop using Liberal utilitarian “lesser evil” logic. It’s idealistic and fake and repeatedly is leading you to disgusting places, like defenses of Platner because of “lesser evil”. I always see it used when defending liberalism and bad ideas, that the bad ideas must be taken seriously and respected because the person pushing them has done so nebulous “praxis” and has a net positive karma score or whatever the fuck Liberal shit is going on in one’s mind palace to justify this nonsense.
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Bernie and AOC have passed bills in into law that have “a net positive impact on the working class”. Doesn’t that get them points too? This entire point system is stupid and an idealist way to see the world. Either their views are correct or they are not. No amount of charitable or “correct” actions makes their stupid incoherent and social chauvinist views correct.
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Doing it in a thread where we are criticizing him (correctly) for his worldview leading him to supporting a Nazi mercenary social fascist accused of SA. That’s where you feel you must de-rail threads to “give credit” to Hasan and make excuses, downplay everything, and ask that we don’t spread memes mocking him. Read the room. This shit is not needed. You are repeating the exact Liberal arguments and ideas which led us here in the first place, and you are demonstrating you have learned nothing and will do it again just like Hasan. You’ve got the same brainrot that leads to these ends, the same neural pathways going to the same tired idealist lib arguments and excuses, like water flowing down a hill in the worn ruts. We’ve heard it time and time again at this point, do you think it is helpful to chime in at this moment?
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1st comment: Please don’t mock Hasan, this is very serious we must defend him from reactionaries
2nd comment: Uhh… actually he went to Cuba so it makes up for everything bad and wrong he ever said. Stop mocking him.
3rd comment: Hasan actually is educating Gen Z and making more based lefties! It’s moving the overton window! He’s done praxis so now you cannot criticize him you ultra.
You’re 0 for 3
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i’ll stop being a debate pervert when you stop being a LIB
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Overton window is idealist and fake. You are just proving your brain works in the wrong way, and it’s likely because Hasan’s stupid streams programmed that into you. Stop using idealist utilitarian analysis. I reject everything you are saying as complete unscientific bunk. The worsening conditions of our economy lead to the growth in the anti-capitalist left, Bernie is an opportunist riding a wave. He did not create it, and he only used its energy and diverted it into the Democrat Party.
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Materialist analysis = angry ranting
is that the strategy your brain employs to not engage with materialist thought and remain in idealist great man purgatory? it’s all just rants?
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You keep completely ignoring my points about your idealist worldview. It’s fake. There’s no such thing as overton window. There’s no such thing as lesser evil. These are fake Liberal things that you accept as real and that shape your imagination of what is possible, and how the world works, and what strategies you should employ to change it. I please beg of you to read Marx.
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This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie’s ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas
That isn’t what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie’s popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn’t just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called “”“overton window”“” can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas.
Privation alone isn’t enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That’s why you need a vanguard party, and that’s why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn’t in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they’re poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants.
But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party.
They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit.
His messaging was so misleading that we’re still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched.
“ultra”
there it is. Was waiting for it. Idealists and electoralists can’t wait to spring it on anyone who has a materialist worldview.
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If you don’t like Hasan, don’t like Platner and don’t believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it’s not what you believe?