Also, hot take, while they suck, I’d argue Bernie and AOC did in fact move the overton window left. How many people here who are now posting about Lenin and nuking Tel Aviv are former Bernie Bros? I am. Even if they turned out to be let downs, a lot of the people who got hyped up by them kept going left despite them and now Israel is less popular than ever and the Democratic establishment OpEd complex is shitting their pants over socialism. We are seemingly doing better than we were in the last decade despite everything.
Overton window is idealist and fake. You are just proving your brain works in the wrong way, and it’s likely because Hasan’s stupid streams programmed that into you. Stop using idealist utilitarian analysis. I reject everything you are saying as complete unscientific bunk. The worsening conditions of our economy lead to the growth in the anti-capitalist left, Bernie is an opportunist riding a wave. He did not create it, and he only used its energy and diverted it into the Democrat Party.
Also can you stop editing your posts to add more angry ranting, makes it hard to reply to you. If you decide you want to yell at me more just make a separate comment.
You keep completely ignoring my points about your idealist worldview. It’s fake. There’s no such thing as overton window. There’s no such thing as lesser evil. These are fake Liberal things that you accept as real and that shape your imagination of what is possible, and how the world works, and what strategies you should employ to change it. I please beg of you to read Marx.
I haven’t used the term lesser evil here at all, I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism.
Are you like a 16 year old ultra who stumbled in here from some ultra lemmy comm? You sure do post like one. Maybe like calm down and stop going ham on comrades over a fucking streamer they don’t even like themselves?
I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism.
This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie’s ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas
That isn’t what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie’s popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn’t just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called “”“overton window”“” can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas.
Privation alone isn’t enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That’s why you need a vanguard party, and that’s why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn’t in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they’re poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants.
But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party.
They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit.
Oh, just to be clear, I didn’t mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist’s comment.
His messaging was so misleading that we’re still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched.
FYI I didn’t stan Platner or even Mamdani, you’re assigning views to me I don’t have just cuz I said one positive thing about Hasan. I don’t even fucking like Hasan. You can just fuck off an make an effortpost about how much you hate Hasan if you wanna stroke that rage boner rather than yelling at me FYI.
If you don’t like Hasan, don’t like Platner and don’t believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it’s not what you believe?
![[CW: nazi shit] pram glatner](https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/d4af645b-807d-4c1d-9187-cd6464a0fb9c.png){kind=link}
Also, hot take, while they suck, I’d argue Bernie and AOC did in fact move the overton window left. How many people here who are now posting about Lenin and nuking Tel Aviv are former Bernie Bros? I am. Even if they turned out to be let downs, a lot of the people who got hyped up by them kept going left despite them and now Israel is less popular than ever and the Democratic establishment OpEd complex is shitting their pants over socialism. We are seemingly doing better than we were in the last decade despite everything.
Overton window is idealist and fake. You are just proving your brain works in the wrong way, and it’s likely because Hasan’s stupid streams programmed that into you. Stop using idealist utilitarian analysis. I reject everything you are saying as complete unscientific bunk. The worsening conditions of our economy lead to the growth in the anti-capitalist left, Bernie is an opportunist riding a wave. He did not create it, and he only used its energy and diverted it into the Democrat Party.
Also can you stop editing your posts to add more angry ranting, makes it hard to reply to you. If you decide you want to yell at me more just make a separate comment.
Materialist analysis = angry ranting
is that the strategy your brain employs to not engage with materialist thought and remain in idealist great man purgatory? it’s all just rants?
Yes you are just angrily ranting at this point.
I’ve literally never watched a Hasan stream in my life.
Frankly you seem to know way more about the guy than me, having a hate boner over him is probably as big of a waste of time as a regular boner.
You keep completely ignoring my points about your idealist worldview. It’s fake. There’s no such thing as overton window. There’s no such thing as lesser evil. These are fake Liberal things that you accept as real and that shape your imagination of what is possible, and how the world works, and what strategies you should employ to change it. I please beg of you to read Marx.
I haven’t used the term lesser evil here at all, I don’t actually believe in the “overton window” I was most just using it as shorthand for the idea that some of the people who got hyped for Bernie moved on to actual socialism.
Are you like a 16 year old ultra who stumbled in here from some ultra lemmy comm? You sure do post like one. Maybe like calm down and stop going ham on comrades over a fucking streamer they don’t even like themselves?
This is idealism i.e. by being exposed to Bernie’s ideas some people were able to move on to socialist ideas
That isn’t what happened. Bernie is an effect, not a cause. Bernie’s popularity came from the worsening material conditions, he didn’t just hype people with his good ideas and conjure his own popularity up from nothing. Material conditions are now even worse, so now people are moving on to actual socialism. If the so-called “”“overton window”“” can be said to exist at all then it is moved by the underlying material conditions, not by ideas.
Privation alone isn’t enough to awaken political consciousness, though. That’s why you need a vanguard party, and that’s why political education is such a big part of socialist praxis. Like obviously Bernie isn’t in any way a Marxist-Leninist or even a socialist, but his messaging was closer to the truth than the ruling class propaganda that tells poor people the reason they’re poor is because of capital gains taxes/welfare queens/business regulations/immigrants.
But again, this is why Bernie and Hasan are so bad. They take a historic moment defined by worsening material conditions, and instead of using it to raise class consciousness, they direct people towards the democratic party.
They are an impediment to socialism, not a benefit.
Oh, just to be clear, I didn’t mean it as an endorsement of Bernie and Hasan, though in hindsight I can see how it came off that way. I was pushing back against what I saw as vulgar materialism in queermunist’s comment.
His messaging was so misleading that we’re still dealing with the fallout 10 years later trying to deal with the radlibs with Marx in their names endorsing Nazi Democrats. Clearly the education was botched.
Yeah, that’s a much better point.
“ultra”
there it is. Was waiting for it. Idealists and electoralists can’t wait to spring it on anyone who has a materialist worldview.
Okay, so yes?
FYI I didn’t stan Platner or even Mamdani, you’re assigning views to me I don’t have just cuz I said one positive thing about Hasan. I don’t even fucking like Hasan. You can just fuck off an make an effortpost about how much you hate Hasan if you wanna stroke that rage boner rather than yelling at me FYI.
If you don’t like Hasan, don’t like Platner and don’t believe in idealist concepts why did you make the arguments you did? Every response or comment of yours in the last 24 hours has been some downplaying or defense of these people - using arguments that are idealist. Maybe stop talking this way if it’s not what you believe?
Yeah literally over post I’ve made today is how much I wanna grease Hasan’s pole