Comment and thread in question: https://lemmy.world/comment/23138585
Ban from that community, memes@lemmy.ml:
Rule 1 of said community: Be civil and nice.
Rule 1 of said instance: No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
I was clearly not bigoted in any manner, and I believe more civil than the way I was treated, was it the Code of Conduct? Excerpts:
Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.
I think I was kind with the people I disagreed with, even if they could not be in return, yet those comments (some including ableist slurs) remain. I think this is enough to demonstrate it is merely a difference in ideology which motivated the ban. Well, bans, because it seems they copied and pasted the same ban in all the communities they have access to:
It’s not a general lemmy.ml ban, just those in particular.
I understand this kind of behavior in safe space communities that don’t want outsiders bellyaching about the pragmatism of electoral politics, but that’s not the case in any of the communities I’ve been banned from, nor is it a part of the instance rules or CoC.
PTB or triggered shitlib? Not an exclusive or, of course.
You must log in or # to comment.
Guy came here to complain about how he was banned for electoralist garbage and he ended up getting banned for electoralist apologia. YDM troll.
@calmblue75@lemmy.ml explained why your comments were being perceived as problematic but you didn’t didn’t read the room. You might actually be in agreement with the community, but your choice of words reads as “a little genocide is acceptable.”
All genocide is unacceptable. All mass murder is unacceptable. Putting the unacceptable onto a scale of better or worse is a liberal propaganda tactic that doesn’t fly in leftist spaces. Your mistake was conflating the concept of “voting to minimize harm in a captured system” with “my genocide is more ethical than their genocide,” which is a fallacy. No genocides are ethical.
isn’t making the minimally harmful choice always ethical?
i think it’s about morality than ethics but ethics and economics (ironically) used to be connected, and part of the same discipline. Economics being quantifiable theories, and ethics being unquantifiable.
In this case, you could easily say any genocide is infinitely bad. So comparing one genocide to two genocides isn’t really possible… it’s an unquantifiable loss.
however in this case, in the captured system where two parties are pretty much the only possible winner, we can make an ethical argument for voting for the “lesser genocide”, but really only because they’re both propping up the same genocidal regime, but one is much more into it, wants to develop buildings where the people were, as well as wage other genocides.
besides, it’s much better to be able to protest without being labeled a terrorist and disappeared to some secret, third world torture prison (like cecot and liberia).
it’s really hard to think of a worse president.
i don’t see how “i want to stop this genocide and others” translates into “a little genocide is okay”. Or normalizing genocide…
i remember shortly before they switched from biden to harris, harris released a statement about protestors calling them all antisemitic and completely ignoring what they were actually protesting, and i hate her with all of my heart for that.
but she never wanted to arrest them and deport them to a foreign torture prison for life.even in math, some infinities are greater than others. I’ve seen interviews with palestinians that said they’d prefer Harris for the same reasons.
like if someone said they’ll either shoot you or stab you and you get to choose, you wouldn’t say nothing because that makes a little bit of stabbing okay.
I think the problem is that certain users chose to scape goat voters. In the end, not voting for genocide and voting for less genocide can both be seen as ethical. In either case, what followed is entirely the fault of the party that pushed the genocide as their main platform point even if it was clearly deeply unpopular and frankly ghoulish.
I think it’s also wrong to assume the dems would have done the genocide “better” than trump, and kind of silly to even present as an argument. Both are clearly in Israel’s pocket and even a little genocide (it would have been a lot under both imo) is really messed up.
The scapegoating also minimizes the genocide. Implying it should have been overlooked is softening it and what I consider Israeli propagada. It turns it into a voting issue, something we can decide on instead of what it is, essentially the world’s greatest evil.
I guess the best is to understand that it was a complex situation, but that it isn’t up to voters to change what they can stomach but up to the dems to take the genocide out of the equation. Blaming voters sends the opposite message.
This is the best response I’ve ever seen in relation to the constant voter-blaming.
I agree. In this case I think it was unfortunate wording that was perceived to carry a different meaning than intended. With discussions like this, especially among leftists, “less bad” or “less harmful” is preferred over “better,” since that carries some implied support.
DNC are subhuman trash that promote zionist supremacist first rule over the US for 90% of their candidates. True demonic evil that also serves corporatist/oligarchist power. GOP are far worse. Total zionist supremacists with added focus of Zionist first christofascism and white supremacism. Corporatist/Oligarchist supremacism is even stronger than incumbent power protection. All in on dead ender climate terrorist energy, and overt war goals to increase oil profits in complete lockstep with deranged lunatic in chief.
There absolutely is a big difference in voting block power, and in minimizing the oppression level of Americans. You should still vote for the lesser subhuman demonic zionazi evil.
There is strong potential for primary campaigns to oppose Israel supremacism of candidates, and even if opponents get 100x more funding, their demonic zionazi allegiances could theoretically harm their vote totals.
1000% YDI.
After seeing your reactions to mild criticism to millionaires who don’t care about you, you deserve more. Fuck off you diet fascist.
Edit: VGA, if you’re going to downvote everyone here, you could explain why you think people are wrong.
Here’s your medal for being banned from .ml:
You can get it in 2 and 5 too, they tend to stack up.
What did you expect by going to .ml instance and try to set a point that goes against the community’s ideology? You thought you’d change their minds? Convert them?
To put it simply, what would you expect to happen if you would go to Star Wars forum and told them that Star Wars is shit and Star Trek is better?
They like many others wanted to get banned to show how terrible it is they won’t allow op to be awful to others
I 100% get that we elect our opposition not our leaders. and in the US we are only given “lesser evil”, and not voting isn’t helping. OP was basically bootlicking dems and being ok with their atrocities.
you normally do have primaries though, you can gate keep the worst shit stains then.
I’m telling everyone to go participate in the primaries. you can’t sit on your ass, skip the primaries, then complain why all the candidates are bad
I vote every year, local, state, and national as well as primaries. In my state, you have to be associated with a party to vote in their primaries though so it ensures one party will not represent you essentially.
yhea, that should be the standard. good job. I mean voting in local state federal and primary elections.
You should be able to vote in multiple parties’s primaries.
Nope, again, how my state does elections. To be in the GQP primary have to be registered for them, for Dems a democrat. If you independent you get the wonderful not able to vote for anyone’s party line in the primaries.
I mean “should” as in an “ideal society”. not as in “you can do that in the current system”.
Oh, thank you for the clarification. I ultimately believe though there shouldn’t be parties, it’s all ranked choice voting for candidates not party systems. I wish to plant that tree.
I wish we had a comm just about this. My gut feeling is the media is purposely burying talking about the primaries so most don’t go vote.
this, if only a fraction of progressive people would hit the primaries, the entire democratic party would change. not in a slow reformist kind of way. but as in a radical change like they had when Republicans and Democrats switched sides.
the media doesn’t want that. the state doesn’t want that. but we absolutely need it.
What does it really matter if they can just use superdelegates anyway or have half the race drop out and endorse the annointed candidate.
I think superdelegates are only for presidential primaries.
for every other candidate there aren’t superdelegates. and every elected officials that isn’t bought be AIPAC counts.
Yeah I am talking about the presidential election
"you can’t sit on your ass, skip the primaries, then complain "
stop me
no need, you already said you’re doing nothing. that’s already stopped.
I didn’t say I’m doing nothing.
have a nice day
OP got banned from this community for “Bad jacketing and electoralism”, and while I aint reading 125 comments to see bad jacketing, including electorialism as a ban reason is wild af.
Regardless if PTB or YDI, I think grass touching might be in order for multiple parties here for taking online politics LARP too seriously. It’s a beautiful spring weather, perfect for a walk.
they were calling people who they think didn’t vote nazis. seems like a pretty good reason to ban someone. they were also banned from AN because they wouldn’t stop calling me honey.
all in all, a rather unpleasant liberal, who was given the chance to find posting opportunities elsewhere.
they wouldn’t stop calling me honey
Gross
Look I’m not saying op was right but like at some point we have to acknowledge the elephant in the room. The non-voters/moderates/apolitical/silent majority/whatever the fuck you want to refer to them as is always simultaneously the biggest roadblock to progress and the biggest enabler of authoritarianism. Read and listen to what former Nazis had to say on the subject, listen to the survivors of their attrocities who were the moderate/apolitical group until authoritarianism kicked in their own personal door.
“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented."
I’m curious what you mean by this quote, as it feels a bit both sides doesn’t it?
The first half seems to indicate one should just vote dem because lesser of two evils (not voting being “neutrality” in my reading) so then in the second half…
You had a lot of leftists rightly pointing out Kamala would not commit to ending support for Israel’s genocide, and we were told to shut up and just vote the lesser evil anyway.
So… Silenced and then what happened
For all their corpo-friendly faults, Democrats are demonstrably less oppressive than Republicans. Vote for the lesser evil, then don’t be silent about the support of genocide. But keep the greater evil out first.
Voting for Democrats is not voting for success. IDK why we have to keep telling people that. At the very best, voting Dem is a vote for maintaining the decades of fascism and civil rights abuses by them. It’s a vote for the status quo, even at the best of times and during the best years. Usually, however, voting for the Dems is voting for the erosion of civil rights, genocide and human rights abuses in Asia, and the proliferation of corporate and Israeli control over the nation. They aren’t the “lesser of two evils”, they ARE the same evil, and anyone who says otherwise is an entitled white person who doesn’t have to live through the human rights abuse they gleefully take part in.
The only difference between them and Trump is that finally, Americans like you are having to actually live through the shit you put the rest of the world through. Hopefully you reflect on the experience and see what a horrible country you live in, and actually start voting for somebody who will change that.
I highly doubt that though.
It took me too long to get this, but man when I did, I was fuming. People like to point the positive of what Dems may do but I point out what negatives they OFTEN do. Biden was pro police, bipartisan, even said we NEEDED republicans. “Both sides” he called it. I’m done compromising my morals for fetid waste that is the Democrat party. Does the vote blaming carry over through most of Lemmy because if so, I have about 6 accounts I haven’t blocked I need to report.
So you don’t live in America but you somehow know exactly what it’s like to live there under every variable across every administration? Congratulations, you are as American as the most devout maga.
I do live in America. I was born here. But I have no loyalty to this fetid country. So you’re right, I don’t consider myself American. I would never willingly associate with such a murderous terror regime.
Exactly. And especially so when its “Dems are just as bad”.
No they the fucknare not.
Dems suck ass, but there is absolutely ZERO path towards progressive policy and a net positive through the GOP. Zero. They are an agressive, regrrssive, boat anchor, dragging everyone and everything backwards. Dems at least pay fucking lip service to and throw a bone to progressive policies. A bone that can be turned into a seed for actual positive change.
The GOP would rather grind thst shit to dust and tell you id doesn’t exist.
Dems suck ass, but there is absolutely ZERO path towards progressive policy and a net positive through the GOP. Zero.
And what progressive policies have we had with them in office?
No they the fucknare not
Tell us you have no idea what happens outside of the US without telling us you’re an uneducated American who has buried their head in the sand to avoid thinking about how the democratic party has a long history of supporting human rights abuses in Asia.
Removed by mod
Yeah, let them solve their own damn problems.
how is the US supplying bombs to Israel so they can bomb Asians their problem? the fuck?
Because they don’t realize the USA has been imperialist from the beginning and still easy. That it’s corporate imperialism mostly with a lot of defense companies running it.
A lot of the problems other countries are facing are because of US!
Yup. If two rapists walk up to me and tell me to choose between them, I’m choosing the one who will give me medical care, education, improved economy for the working class instead of investing class, public infrastructure, nature preservation, and a tease of corporate regulations instead of the one who will empty my wallet and return nothing. Either way we’re getting fucked, may as well get fucked like an old housewife instead of a slave.
Here’s a thought. Throw the rapists out and elect somebody who isn’t a rapist, you fucking weirdos.
Yeah,you are right, but we don’t get there without passing through the “friendly.housewife rapist” first, so we can at least get back to a “normal” level.
Oh yeah I’m sorry I guess I just imagined that literally every single government on the planet is assisting the pedo ring run by my elected pedo rulers. You’re literally acting like an American rn… even demonstrating the same levels of willful ignorance and blind ego as the most red of Maga. Congratulations you’re more American than 1/2 of their own population!
I like how you’re doing your best to make giving up and deciding that you’re just going to have to pick between pedos from now on seem like the smart choice. That’s pretty disgusting, not gonna lie. And worst of all, you don’t seem all that bothered by it.
OP went from being just a person with some passionate political views, to being an argumentative dick real quick.
But your point stands. Spring here. Beautiful out. Going out for a walk right now!
What is bad jacketing?
coming into an anarchist instance and telling people you get to decide if they’re anarchist or not.
lemmy.ml is an instance well-known for being, shall we say… unreasonable when it comes to politics.
The admins and a large portion of the user base are tankies— people who claim to be extreme leftists/communists but really worship the likes of Stalin, Xi and the oppressive authoritarian government of regimes, such as the Soviet Union, China, and North Korea. They are very much intolerant any criticism whatsoever or anyone else’s political views. Unfortunately, the administrators of that instance are also the main developers for Lemmy itself.
This is why
the code has been forked to another platformalternatives to lemmy have been developed, such as PieFed, which is federated and interoperates with Lemmy, and is not dependent on the crazy ass developers. It also has better mod and admin features. but even if you don’t wanna switch to PieFed, you can at least avoid communities on Lemmy.ml. I have the whole instance blocked.piefed is not a fork, it’s a completely different codebase. with plenty of its own problems.
oh, my mistake. with a quick google, I see that it’s python, not rust, so yeah, obviously not a fork. my mistake!
did you also see the opinionated parts? if you enable the default filter list piefed hides all meme and 4chan communities and enables built in image recognition specifically to prevent people from posting greentexts. it also keeps an internal tally of user “quality” based on what communities they post in.
truly everything is political.
Oh, damn, that “user quality” metric is really messed up
It’s also fake.
It’s a misunderstanding of a setting admins can enable that makes it so meme communities don’t add to your karma. That way, you can’t karma farm by posting memes.
I’m a piefed admin and My instance has that setting disabled because I like memes.
Not fake when it’s in documented code anyone can read, and the creator explicitly states it’s fine.
yeah, I don’t really consider those to be the “problems” others do, especially since instance admins can simply disable those features.
Same. And like you said its easy to remove for instances. I think its like the third screen when you set up the instance. Im having a wonderful time on piefed and a couple of my PRs were accepted no fuss.
of course they can, just like how the ml admins can choose not to have their weird swearing filter that nobody else uses. but it’s still in there and that’s what they thought communities wanted. eg, that’s what they wanted for their community. point being, no codebase is neutral and i don’t know the intent of the piefed dev either.
ok, but, again, I don’t view what the piefed dev did as problematic. the lemmy devs? I do find them problematic for many reasons, including the ones I’ve already mentioned.
so, enough with the whataboutisms
it’s not a counter-accusation trying to paint one in a better light than the other. i want none of it, and the fact that the bias is apparently okay as long as the politics are aligned feels pretty shit.
piefed hides all meme and 4chan communities
Fake news
built in image recognition specifically to prevent people from posting greentexts
Based
keeps an internal tally of user “quality” based on what communities they post in.
Fake news.
I’m a PieFed admin and I’ve read some of the source code, ask Me anything.
so have i, it’s in there. again, the filter is not on by default but the preset blocklist includes those communities. and it’s called “reputation” in the code.
https://piefed.social/c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
This is lemmyshitpost, a meme community, as viewed from piefed.world. It is also proof that piefed doesn’t hide meme communities.
it’s only proof that that specific instance hasn’t enabled the setting to do so.
Piefed isn’t a fork, it’s a completely different piece of software using the same protocol.
I don’t think the Lemmy Devs have much to do with the bans on that server, it’s mostly the community mods.
Dessalines does bans like this all the time.
I’ve said before that if Dessalines spent half as much time developing the platform instead of banning people for wrongthink, Lemmy would be a much better platform.
Lemmy donations are a scam. People give them all that money, and they use the money to hire full time developers, who spend all day banning people instead of writing code.
I’m not sure where I heard it was a fork, but I’m obviously misremembering.
fixed
It’s an easy mistake to make, I only know they’re different because piefed is python while Lemmy is rust.
I’m sure I forgot because I’m pretty baked right now, lol
I thought that was more limited to lemmygrad, sad to see.
oh, no… lemmygrad is just much, much worse. also avoid hexbear. it’s like lemmygrad x 4chan
Removed by mod
Yeah just avoid communities on that instance and you’ll be fine.
8
.ml
There’s your answer
Its absolutely hilarious that there are two types of people in this thread, people who read your comments and people who see ml so assume it must be a PTB. How about you make it easier for everyone and post those offending comments?
People would rather just say ml bad then do any reflection on what’s going on around them. Especially when it requires them to change views
You could convince the vast majority of .world users to unilaterally agree with a hardcore Nazi if you said “look these evil ml tankies just censored a poor innocent liberal”
I mean, it works well enough for the liberals. I’d say about 60% of band from .ml are deserved, and the 40% is bullshit.
But .world and MWoG think that if you were banned for advocating for America to invade places to “liberate” them, you’re actually a victim.
Or simply say nazis shouldn’t exist. They come out of the woodwork to say stop calling those you don’t like nazis on posts saying nothing but no nazis 🤷🙃
Removed by mod
holy based
The mods didn’t seem to think so.
The source was based, the meme was not.
you don’t need to be here. you can just leave.
But then They couldn’t troll for a response.
I think this thread is a great example of what not to do in this community. Rather than discuss whether or not the ban was warranted for breaking a listed rule (which in this case was an obvious PTB, they didn’t break any rule and got banned from unrelated communities), half the people here simply devolved into attacking OP for their beliefs and ultimately banning them for defending themselves, even after they apologized and attempted to be civil. That’s not what this place is for, and the mods have said as much before.
They didn’t apologize for calling people Nazis, or for sexually harassing me either.
Scratched liberal, what a shock that they’re so fascist.
The amount of neo-liberals/liberals on Lemmy actually surprises me. Like, most of these communities are apparent in their disdain for them and that’s putting it mildly. I’m personally tired of all the apologia they get from people on here. Less harm is still harm, lesser evil is still evil, less fascist is fascist.
Liberals want this to become Reddit 2, including America apologia, DNC does nothing wrong, and anything vaguely not worshipping white males must be purged.
Are you referring to them calling you “honey”? I would think that’s them being a condescending dick, not sexually harassing you. Regardless, I don’t see why they would apologize to you in particular given how hostile and a self-proclaimed “jerk” you were to them.
Well if we decide we want your help determining what is and isn’t sexual harassment, we’ll be sure to contact you directly.
