An iron fist is certainly one way to encourage creative thinking.
Archive of the full article.
This is rational from China’s perspective. Divesting in the American technology pipeline not only weakens America’s grip on the global economy but also positions China as the leader in global technology.
Also, we have more evidence of US putting back doors into technology than we do China. If you’re living in the imperial core, it’s far more likely that the US is monitoring your activities than China is.
If there’s anything to retain concern for it’s Chinese companies sharing data with the US gov. On the plus side, that will probably decrease as the US tries to isolate (read: undermine and create a cold war against) China.
Nothing makes that more clear than how quickly the US dropped their bullshit accusations of DikDok once it was under their control.
but China is capitalist???
Well I mean Germany did it too? Unless you’re asserting that Germany wasn’t a capitalist.
Nobody’s capitalist, or communist for that matter. Both of these are mythical ideals that nobody has ever managed to implement at any large scale.
🤡
OK, what exception did I miss?
It’s still capitalism when the government does things. It’s not a mix of capitalism and socialism or whatever, it’s just capitalism because what matters is who is in control. Under capitalism there is a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, the owners of capital. Hence, capital-ism.
Under capitalism, corporations take over the government and use it to their own ends. Under communism, the government takes over the corporations and uses them to it’s own ends. Either outcome ends up looking pretty much the same.
What we have in the west, especially America, is far more than just “the government doing stuff”. Government power and corporate power have become nearly indistinguishable. Corporations don’t make long term investments of any kind without government grants to ensure consistent steady profits. We are constantly at war, and those wars consistently serve corporate interests.
On the other side, every large scale implementation of Communist ideals has resulted instead in state capitalism.
Under communism, the government takes over the corporations and uses them to it’s own ends.
No, that is Leninism. Not communism. Those groups called themselves communist, communist party, communist Republic etc. But we’re not communist in any significant sense beyond nominally.
Replace every time you mention communism with Leninism or ML and I largely agree however. Russia evolved into fascism. China is absolutely state capitalist. North Korea 100% a dictatorial nepo-state. But not because of communism.
Sure, if you base your politics in idealism instead of materialism, which isn’t a very useful lense for analyzing politics.
Not that you could before, but I wouldn’t trust any chips, hardware, software, anything made from there from a security stand point anymore.
On what basis do you make such a claim?
china bad
What alternative is there lol. The rest of high-tech are made in the US or its allies, which is far worse.
Why is that worse?
From my point of view, Western powers are more realistically gonna impinge on my human rights than Beijing is.
Your circumstances may be different.
Do you really need to ask why you shouldn’t trust the countries responsible for the vast majority of ongoing neocolonialism, and the ones currently supporting a genocide?
Just look up some of the numerous shit the CIA has done, or the fact that they collect information on every US citizen to use against them, etc. Or the 1965 Indonesian massacre of 700k to 1mil people where the CIA supplied the military dictatorship with information on them.
How many reeducation camps does China currently operate, again?
Probably the amount you’d need to tackle a security threat like the ETIM and its attacks that are right inside your country.
Could they have handled it better? Almost certainly; there’s always a better way to do something. But who am I to complain when the Organization of Islamic Cooperation approve of China’s treatment of its Muslim population?
- Welcomes the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat’s delegation upon invitation from the People’s Republic of China; commends the efforts of the People’s Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and looks forward to further cooperation between the OIC and the People’s Republic of China.
Or how Global South, mostly Muslim, countries also approve, and the ones currently committing a genocide in Palestine are the only ones who accuse China of mishandling it?
…separatism and religious extremism has caused enormous damage to people of all ethnic groups in Xinjiang, which has seriously infringed upon human rights, including right to life, health and development. Faced with the grave challenge of terrorism and extremism, China has undertaken a series of counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures in Xinjiang, including setting up vocational education and training centers. Now safety and security has returned to Xinjiang and the fundamental human rights of people of all ethnic groups there are safeguarded. The past three consecutive years has seen not a single terrorist attack in Xinjiang and people there enjoy a stronger sense of happiness, fulfillment and security. We note with appreciation that human rights are respected and protected in China in the process of counter-terrorism and deradicalization.
Because while there are only obtuse and vague accusations that China is backdooring technology, there’s no proof besides a Chinese law that says Chinese tech companies have to help authorities.
The US on the other hand was caught red handed doing what they accuse China of with the Prism system. It was caught spying on Angela Merkle. And just ask Snowdon how he feels about living in exile in Russia for exposing that.
How would you reconcile the great firewall with this view? They censor texts(on many platforms) with certain messages. To do this you obviously need access to the content.
It all has to do with transparency. China actively tells you what it’s doing and what it collects. Thus, the Chinese citizens can prepare for it and do by using VPNs.
The US is spying. Not just on it’s own citizens, but the entire world. Merkel for example couldn’t have known that US was spying on her and didn’t have the opportunity to protect herself by using a VPN. Mind you, this is on TOP of US companies openly and transparently collecting data as we discovered with Cambridge Analytica.
Again, remember, we’re not saying China is good. We’re saying USA is worse, since they do everything China does on data collection AND they have backdoors and spy.
*Edit: Interestingly this transparency in what they collect is a primary reason for why the west believes they’re oppressing Uyghurs. The problem is they’re conflating this transparent information with oppression. Things like do they go to prayer or shave their beards are things that are collected. The west has stated that this shows the Chinese are targeting Uyghurs, the problem with that analysis is that China does this to everyone.
Another example is a data point China collected was are you planning to have a child soon. The west took this as are you getting pregnant and stated that China is trying to force women to have children. The problem with a lot of western articles is they’re mistranslating and misunderstanding.
Say what you will about if you’re OK with this type of data collection, but at least China is honest about it, to the point we are misconstruing their collecting of data to place insidious ideas on them.
Which will further stifle innovation, just like every other time it’s been attempted.
Thanks China!
Give us examples
Any dictatorship in history?
You are currently living in a bourgeois dictatorship (no, getting to “choose” out of two capitalist imperialist parties is not “democracy”). Has your country not innovated on anything?
Have proletarian dictatorships like the USSR, which went from feudal backwaters to the first nation ever to explore space in just 30 years, and China, which has gone from one of the 10 poorest nations to now the second (soon to be first) richest, not innovated?
I gotta love that even US hegemony is challenged on Lemmy, here not even Western superiority is a given which is at least something the vast majority on Reddit can agree on.
That said nuanced discussions seem impossible still, it’s less a balanced mix where every spot on the scale is represented and more a fairly even balance of two extremes.
My current theory is that the majority of actual moderates (not US politics moderates) between two extremes just aren’t interested in the debate, whereas the extremes very much are. I do gotta say that I too generally want to weigh in on things I either agree on completely or things I vehemently oppose, so I guess that kinda helps me understand how and why this is… But it makes everything seem like the extremes are the only two choices, which couldn’t be further from the truth.
what are you trying to say?
Not every observation has to result in a conclusion.
I think we can expect to see a future where a lot of Chinese computing is done on RISC-V. They will not have any need for American technology companies, b/c we don’t do the manufacturing anyway. We just have the IP for entrenched technology. Americans were too short-sighted with all that trade war, Nvidia GPUs, and Huawei stuff. Why wouldn’t your biggest trading partner take that as a warning sign that they must foster their own tech sector?
Also, when you can truly plan for longer terms than fiscal quarters or, if you’re being really ambitious, fiscal years then I don’t see how you can’t just eventually dominate the sector.
