The ‘manosphere’ isn’t offering affection, it is offering solutions (real or not) after repeating a problem that lonely men feel (true or not) is true.
How people don’t comprehend the so called manosphere is puzzling to me. It is very very simple.
Men have real problems and these people are offering those men solutions.
Men are driven to find solutions and they’re finding them in the manosphere because no one else is offering any.
To act like the manosphere created all the problems is just insane. That’s not to say the manosphere isn’t full of problems, or creating new problems, but there are serious problems that preceded the movement.
I don’t think noone else is offering solutions. The problem is that the other solutions are harder to implement or take more time and effort.
“Women are at fault and you need to hit the gym.” I can fix that in half a day, just get mad at women and fill out an online application for a gym membership in my area. The solutions of the manosphere are easily solved with capitalism: just buy product abc and pay to train your body.
Meanwhile, the real solutions are much harder: build a community. Find people in your area for a hobby, commit to regular meetings. Get to know people, manage disagreements, have uncomfortable conversations, invest time in others until you’ve slowly built a group of people around you that trust each other and are open about their feelings. Communitybuilding takes a long time. Compared to that, the manosphere’s solutions are quick and easy and you can already get yourself started at home.
This is the trick of Jordan Peterson. He offers sound advice: make your bed, get a hair cut, wear clean clothes. Then mixes that good advice with some truly misogynistic garbage.
Yep. I remember when the “manosphere” was still young. I went through a terrible breakup. I was looking for support. They offered commiseration.
Things can get better. You’re going to be ok. Start working out (great advice). Get your place in order (I needed to hear that). Delete social media, stop comparing yourself to them (oh hell yeah).
They validated my anger and sadness. I started to feel like I belonged. I was actually starting to do well. There had been no mention of women yet, just dudes who are going through or had been through some shit. Then when I went a level deeper I started getting the truly misogynistic garbage. But I wasn’t angry at women. I was angry at a woman. An individual. I grew up around enough women to know that AWALT was an absolute lie. I had enough friends that were women to know that. The fact that I was half an inch shy of 6’ never stopped me before.
So I was out of it quickly. But I know how easy it is to get wrapped up in it. I could easily be one of those people today.
You’re 100% right, and I’d like to add that these problems men are experiencing are caused by capitalism and the patriarchy, which is ironic because the manosphere is clearly capitalizing on their loneliness. It’s a cycle of abuse literally just to take their money.
The solutions the manosphere is offering were never intended to work.
The cause doesn’t really matter to men experiencing these issues, as there’s no path to a solution through that. At least not one that is personally attainable.
The men who want a solution to these problems want a solution that is theoretically attainable by their own efforts, rather than requiring something like a complete overhaul of the existing societal structures.
“Cool, we found the source. Now what’s happening about that which will help me in my lifetime? What can I do against the patriarchy beside not perpetuate it myself, while my prospective partners are still living in a society controlled by it?”
You can’t tell a lady her expectations are unfair because of the patriarchy and use that to get a girlfriend.
A lot of men see posts like yours and feel like they’re being told that you think the problem’s solved because you found the source. And some of them feel like just tossing it on the abstraction of “patriarchy” is an excuse to try and blame the problems they encounter on themselves. “We wouldn’t hit you if you behaved right!” or “You men made this bed, now get fucked in it” sort of shit.
Or it just means that they have to become part of those powerful men, part of that patriarchy, in order for things to work out in their favor. Because it’s too big for them to somehow slay and then reap the benefits of a patriarchy-less society. That’s where some parts of the “alpha” bullshit comes from.
I get that’s not what you’re trying to do, but it’s worth saying. I’m happily married for almost a decade now, but I spent far more time than is healthy on 4chan growing up, so I’m somewhat familiar with the mindset, and I’ve seen plenty of men heading down this path express these sorts of feelings when they see comments like yours.
Thank you, seeing people who can see beyond blaming capitalism or the patriarchy is like finding an oasis in the fediverse.
Life is much more complex than that and it gets exponentially more complex the more personal it gets, but you gave a great explanation about it. Bravo.
It’s amazing how often this plays out politically; people have a problem and the right has a bad answer while the left takes too long to look for the right answer. The end result is the only people who have an answer gets attention/votes. The other side will look like complainers who are trying to tear down the solution and become “the bummer” that becomes the butt of jokes and general animosity.
The left needs some answers to big problems before the right can make up some snake oil solution.
To be clear this was not a violent attempt to kill settlers by the Lakota people. These shirts were thought to protect from bullets and the Ghost dance was believed to bring back spirits of the dead to protect the land settlers were expanding into. It was in this context that the US army massacred 153 people, mostly women and children and ~20 soldiers were given medals of honor for what is known today as the Wounded Knee Massacre.
I mean engaging with someone’s problems and trying to “help” with them can be a form of care or affection.
I think both you and the post are 1000% right. I do wish society was able to have larger and less dysfunctional conversation around the issues men face.
They are not the persistent threat of danger that women deal with, but cultural norms around men, masculinity, and how they’re treated are also deeply toxic and do a huge amount of harm.
The ‘manosphere’ isn’t offering affection, it is offering solutions (real or not) after repeating a problem that lonely men feel (true or not) is true.
How people don’t comprehend the so called manosphere is puzzling to me. It is very very simple.
Men have real problems and these people are offering those men solutions.
Men are driven to find solutions and they’re finding them in the manosphere because no one else is offering any.
To act like the manosphere created all the problems is just insane. That’s not to say the manosphere isn’t full of problems, or creating new problems, but there are serious problems that preceded the movement.
I don’t think noone else is offering solutions. The problem is that the other solutions are harder to implement or take more time and effort. “Women are at fault and you need to hit the gym.” I can fix that in half a day, just get mad at women and fill out an online application for a gym membership in my area. The solutions of the manosphere are easily solved with capitalism: just buy product abc and pay to train your body.
Meanwhile, the real solutions are much harder: build a community. Find people in your area for a hobby, commit to regular meetings. Get to know people, manage disagreements, have uncomfortable conversations, invest time in others until you’ve slowly built a group of people around you that trust each other and are open about their feelings. Communitybuilding takes a long time. Compared to that, the manosphere’s solutions are quick and easy and you can already get yourself started at home.
This is the trick of Jordan Peterson. He offers sound advice: make your bed, get a hair cut, wear clean clothes. Then mixes that good advice with some truly misogynistic garbage.
Yep. I remember when the “manosphere” was still young. I went through a terrible breakup. I was looking for support. They offered commiseration.
Things can get better. You’re going to be ok. Start working out (great advice). Get your place in order (I needed to hear that). Delete social media, stop comparing yourself to them (oh hell yeah).
They validated my anger and sadness. I started to feel like I belonged. I was actually starting to do well. There had been no mention of women yet, just dudes who are going through or had been through some shit. Then when I went a level deeper I started getting the truly misogynistic garbage. But I wasn’t angry at women. I was angry at a woman. An individual. I grew up around enough women to know that AWALT was an absolute lie. I had enough friends that were women to know that. The fact that I was half an inch shy of 6’ never stopped me before.
So I was out of it quickly. But I know how easy it is to get wrapped up in it. I could easily be one of those people today.
Note for everyone else confused:
AWALT = All Women Are Like That
And certainly not Anwalt, the German term for attorney/lawyer.
Yeah, I could have explained. Thank you, kind friend, for handling that for me.
You’re 100% right, and I’d like to add that these problems men are experiencing are caused by capitalism and the patriarchy, which is ironic because the manosphere is clearly capitalizing on their loneliness. It’s a cycle of abuse literally just to take their money.
The solutions the manosphere is offering were never intended to work.
The cause doesn’t really matter to men experiencing these issues, as there’s no path to a solution through that. At least not one that is personally attainable.
The men who want a solution to these problems want a solution that is theoretically attainable by their own efforts, rather than requiring something like a complete overhaul of the existing societal structures.
“Cool, we found the source. Now what’s happening about that which will help me in my lifetime? What can I do against the patriarchy beside not perpetuate it myself, while my prospective partners are still living in a society controlled by it?”
You can’t tell a lady her expectations are unfair because of the patriarchy and use that to get a girlfriend.
A lot of men see posts like yours and feel like they’re being told that you think the problem’s solved because you found the source. And some of them feel like just tossing it on the abstraction of “patriarchy” is an excuse to try and blame the problems they encounter on themselves. “We wouldn’t hit you if you behaved right!” or “You men made this bed, now get fucked in it” sort of shit.
Or it just means that they have to become part of those powerful men, part of that patriarchy, in order for things to work out in their favor. Because it’s too big for them to somehow slay and then reap the benefits of a patriarchy-less society. That’s where some parts of the “alpha” bullshit comes from.
I get that’s not what you’re trying to do, but it’s worth saying. I’m happily married for almost a decade now, but I spent far more time than is healthy on 4chan growing up, so I’m somewhat familiar with the mindset, and I’ve seen plenty of men heading down this path express these sorts of feelings when they see comments like yours.
Thank you, seeing people who can see beyond blaming capitalism or the patriarchy is like finding an oasis in the fediverse.
Life is much more complex than that and it gets exponentially more complex the more personal it gets, but you gave a great explanation about it. Bravo.
Every damned post around here.
It’s amazing how often this plays out politically; people have a problem and the right has a bad answer while the left takes too long to look for the right answer. The end result is the only people who have an answer gets attention/votes. The other side will look like complainers who are trying to tear down the solution and become “the bummer” that becomes the butt of jokes and general animosity.
The left needs some answers to big problems before the right can make up some snake oil solution.
The right always has a quick answer because they are throwing the same shit at every problem.
“It’s the foreigners/religious group abc/political group D! Just get rid of this one group of people and all will be good.”
Housing crisis? It’s the immigrants. No jobs? It’s the immigrants. Lonely? It’s the left and also it’s your own fault, just hit the gym.
It’s easy to have a solution for every problem within seconds if you just claim every problem is the fault of the same 3-4 groups of people.
Look up "The Ghost Shirt Society.’
Native American movement that promised to kill all the settlers and bring back the buffalo.
Desperate people will jump on solutions, whether or not they are viable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_shirt
To be clear this was not a violent attempt to kill settlers by the Lakota people. These shirts were thought to protect from bullets and the Ghost dance was believed to bring back spirits of the dead to protect the land settlers were expanding into. It was in this context that the US army massacred 153 people, mostly women and children and ~20 soldiers were given medals of honor for what is known today as the Wounded Knee Massacre.
I mean engaging with someone’s problems and trying to “help” with them can be a form of care or affection.
I think both you and the post are 1000% right. I do wish society was able to have larger and less dysfunctional conversation around the issues men face.
They are not the persistent threat of danger that women deal with, but cultural norms around men, masculinity, and how they’re treated are also deeply toxic and do a huge amount of harm.