Liberals loved genocide so much they were willing to lose to trump instead of tell netanyahu no. They broke the Leahy law to do so. They’re sticklers for the tiniest policy under all other circumstances because it means they don’t have to pass what they ran on. But they’ll bend over backwards to support genocide.
Liberals actually want to win elections so they wait until they are in power before making any demands.
Progressives will find a hill to die on every single election cycle. As a result, they consistently lose and are unable to enact any change. This is the reason the US government keeps moving right.
Progressives will find a hill to die on every single election cycle
Centrists choose to die rather than tell your god netanyahu no.
As a result, they consistently lose and are unable to enact any change.
Centrists are unwilling to enact any change. They only support genocide. Nothing else. Ever. They always get in their own way. They always manage to find some procedural bullshit to consider sacrosanct. But they’ll break the law to sell weapons to your favorite person for your favorite activity.
Leftists choose to lose elections rather than do what it takes to end the genocide.
Leftist are unwilling to meet the prerequisite for enacting any change, which is to win an election. So they are doing even less than Centrists to end the genocide. All while empowering Trump and his fascist takeover of Gaza.
Which is another way of saying liberals are pro genocide, or at least okay with it. I’m not, never will be. This is YOUR fault for having zero principles and not demanding the bare minimum from your politicians.
Nope, it is pointing out the reason progressives consistently lose elections. They are willing to let their campaigns die on any hill. Even when winning is the only way to enact change.
Progressives (you included) don’t learn from this lesson no matter how many times voters teach it.
This is why the US government keeps moving right. Progressives would rather throw every election than do what it takes to stop genocide.
The candidate against Trump was Harris a democrat so I don’t know why you talk about the progressives. Harris had a chance to win if she had a good compaign focusing on the economy so it is ok to critisize her. If the candidate running against Trump was a progressives and had a terrible compaign I would have the same critisim because i am not a cultist like you or the member of the republican cult
If you don’t understand the relationship between progressives protesting the alternative to Trump and Trump winning then I can’t understand it for you. This is common sense.
Open support for Palestine caused progressives candidates to lose to AIPAC funded candidates.
Liberals knew this was a losing move and didn’t choose it.
Progressives, who consistently lose elections, chose to die on this hill so their campaigns died and now they have no way to stop the genocide they amplified.
Liberals knew this was a losing move and didn’t choose it.
You knew genocide was a losing move and chose it anyway because you would rather have genocide than win. There is nothing else to centrism. NOTHING. Genocide is all you are.
genocide they amplified.
You keep spamming this bullshit because nazi shit like you thinks that repeating lies makes them true.
If the leftists you hate because and only because they don’t want all Palestinians dead like you always have were so damned important to Harris’ chances, she should have listened to them instead of trying to court people whose policies are identical to yours in the republican party.
I don’t want Palestinians dead. That’s why I am pointing out that progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates. I want progressives to learn from their mistakes and learn how to run a campaign so that one day they might win an election for a change. Maybe then they can stop suckling at the teat of the DNC to stay alive.
That’s why I am pointing out that progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates.
You’re gloating that your garbage pro-genocide party only protects pro-genocide incumbents from challengers.
Your wing of the party prefers trump to ever stopping their genocide support. You got a candidate you are happy with: anyone who supports genocide for you.
Understand that your American definition of left and right is not based at all on actual, factual analysis of of political theory and based entirely on American propaganda. There are base definitions for these things, even if Americans seem to think that “the Overton window” is relevant in intelligent discussion around the world with these things. Even if it was it wouldn’t shift the actual definition of these words, but your perceptions by proxy.
I am referring to the actual definitions of these terms.
At a certain point it’s not even worth arguing with these people. They’ve been sold propaganda by American liberals and conservatives for so long that they cannot get it out of their head. They bought it hook line and sinker. They’ve been sitting there while the Overton Windows being shifted and they’ve been going along with it happily.
Yeah man, like I seriously don’t get it. These aren’t difficult concepts, but American liberals are just incapable of understanding that A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE HARDLINE ABOUT GENOCIDE. Convince your politicians that it’s not okay to do genocide. I GUARANTEE YOU it’s easier than convincing me that genocide is okay.
I understand that all of your claims are Euro-centric and that’s a problem.
There are definitions of right and left and they are relative to the society in question. Anyone trying to force a universal definition will quickly fond their definitions wanting.
For the USA Harris is center left. In KSA Harris would be extreme far left for suggesting that there should be rights for women and no king. These definitions are relative.
I’m not European. American problems directly affect my country. And these right wing/left wing discussions mean something. Someone cannot claim to be left wing or have my sympathies when they’re just claiming to be left wing while being oppose to me on every issue I care about. I know it’s hard for liberals to understand this, although I have no clue why.
The fact you aren’t European is immaterial as your claim is Euro-centric. Anti-capitalism = left is not universal to all nations. In DPRK suggesting there not be a hereditary dictatorship but rather a parliamentary system would be insanely far left yet that’s standard for most nations.
Not all nations are in the same place for development and it is a colossal mistake to label what is true for Europe as being true for all given the history of evil rooted in Eurocentric perspectives.
In no way, shape, or form is what I’m saying racist you absolute twit. If you’re gonna reach that far for something, you should be reaching up your ass to pull your head out of it.
Them pretending that there is some international standard definition for what is right or left is hilarious. Typical Europeans to think the world revolves around them. They’ve never beaten the colonizer out of their minds.
They said they aren’t European. I susoect their education in political philosophy comes from non-academic sources as I see this specific Euro-centric claim frequently from those educated through memes and forums.
By the world’s standards, you potato. By comparing her to others in this country, you corndog-stick. By simply looking at her positions, you meatloaf stain. By whom she supports, you pickle wart.
There is no “ world’s standard” there IS a EUROPEAN standard but we should never mistake European views for the world as the jerks with that Euro-centric perspective are behind most of the genocide and colonization in history.
Exactly, what constitutes “progressive” and “conservative” are relative to their time and place. Mistaking what is true for Western Europe as being true for all is historically problematic.
How did Harris “do war crimes”? Did she give orders to the IDF? Is she a member of the Israeli government?
It took a while before the international community sort of acknowledged this war was a genocide. Israel always has been great at playing the victim, and has always been under the protection of the US. In this context, the US government under Biden provided support, as it often does. Many other states did, and still do.
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit. Is everyone a war criminal now? Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit.
Most of the world is to an extent, but not all the world is war crime levels of complicit. Arming people with the knowledge they’ll be committing war crimes is a war crime, full stop. Israel was bombing hospitals and aid workers from day one.
Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
First, Harris is not part of “the left.” Second, opposing genocide is basic human decency. For any vaguely left-lesning cause, someone who can’t even do that much is less than worthless; they’re a liability.
SHE SUPPORTED AMERICA’S INVOLVEMENT FROM HER POSITION OF POWER. Stop being a bootlicking piece of shit for one second and you’ll realize it’s OK to call her what she is: a goddamned criminal.
no. it is not. to support israel is to support genocide. from its inception it’s been genocide the entire time. it is ok for things to feel uncomfortable but that’s how you progress. genocide bad. ok?
People are making this black and white when it is very much not.
You’ll do anything to justify the genocide all centrists dearly love.
During the Biden presidency she pushed for more protection for Palestinian civilians and more to prevent famine, but was blocked by the administration.
Israel created hamas, trough hundred years of genocide and occupation. It is a Zionist settler colonial project created in image of the USA. Hamas are a reaction to exactly that, it is a resistance shaped by generations of genocide, discrimination and persecution. Israel stole the land of Palestine and now wishes to expand towards Lebanon and Syria. And they won’t stop, they are the stronghold of the US interests in the region, they are supported by both parties.
Not only Harris supported defensive weapons but also offensive weapon. Don’t you think giving gaza defensive arms would also save palestinian lives too? Would you also have supported Nazi getting weapons from your country while they comited genocide? The occupying forces and grnocidal state shouldn’t have sny right to self defence
It is not. She accepted a position of power that require to fix complex issues so people has the right to critisize just like a parent can critisize a terrible teachers that not do her job correctly
It’s entirely possible to want the Palestinians to be safe from harm while at the same time wanting to give Israel funding for the Iron Dome and other defensive measures to protect their people from Hamas.
No it isn’t. Do you also support sending weapons and money to Russia? Would you have supported it for Nazi Germany? Do you really not appreciate the insanity of saying “it’s possible to oppose the holocaust while also supporting sending troops to guard the death camp!”
Everyone who, from a place of power to do so, aided in a genocide, in the world, is in fact a war criminal. Yes, that’s what that fucking means. Democrats are not the left. And if I have to support genocide to work with someone I will not be working with that person or their movement. It’s ridiculous I even have to say that.
I’m not American, and am working with parties that affect actual change in my country. What YOU need to realize is that your parties are not the ways you affect actual change anymore in the United States. You have two right wing genocide parties. How you fix that is with popular working class movements, not by shaming people who are actively trying to foster them. Your country is the way it is in large part because of people like you shrieking “vote blue no matter who” while the democrats move further and further to the right and help wreak untold havoc on the rest of the world.
American liberals absolutely do not know what they’re talking about at all
You. Would. Not. Know.
Because politics includes everything, not just soundbites cherrypicked by various propaganda arms, not just random comments on the web. Everything else that makes up a society plays into what politics is. Your understanding is necessarily incomplete - likely very incomplete.
But you do you. I see how well it’s been working in your country so far.
No, you weasel fart, I think @cruxifux@feddit.nl is very well informed. I’ve interacted with them for a couple years now. The United States political system is unfortunately well-known around the world. Far more, I’m sure, than you’re informed about say, The Netherlands.
Your buddy did not promise unconditional support for Israel the settler colonial power oppressing and stealing Palestinians land for half a century and billions of military budget to Israel.
You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments
You said “work for a government” you did not set the goalposts where you are attempting to move them to.
Let’s not get uncivil here given you are complaining the Vice President, who typically has little to no power to effect change, wasn’t an agent of change.
I mean what do you call someone who supports right wing policies and does war crimes then?
They think the dems need to move even further right so probably a good leader?
Trump, and these people helped get him elected.
Liberals will never take any personal responsibility under any circumstance and it’s really irritating.
Liberals didn’t protest the alternative to Trump. That was leftists.
Liberals loved genocide so much they were willing to lose to trump instead of tell netanyahu no. They broke the Leahy law to do so. They’re sticklers for the tiniest policy under all other circumstances because it means they don’t have to pass what they ran on. But they’ll bend over backwards to support genocide.
Liberals actually want to win elections so they wait until they are in power before making any demands.
Progressives will find a hill to die on every single election cycle. As a result, they consistently lose and are unable to enact any change. This is the reason the US government keeps moving right.
Centrists choose to die rather than tell your god netanyahu no.
Centrists are unwilling to enact any change. They only support genocide. Nothing else. Ever. They always get in their own way. They always manage to find some procedural bullshit to consider sacrosanct. But they’ll break the law to sell weapons to your favorite person for your favorite activity.
Leftists choose to lose elections rather than do what it takes to end the genocide.
Leftist are unwilling to meet the prerequisite for enacting any change, which is to win an election. So they are doing even less than Centrists to end the genocide. All while empowering Trump and his fascist takeover of Gaza.
You’re just pretending that the genocide you dearly love is the only winning issue. You know better.
Which is another way of saying liberals are pro genocide, or at least okay with it. I’m not, never will be. This is YOUR fault for having zero principles and not demanding the bare minimum from your politicians.
Nope, it is pointing out the reason progressives consistently lose elections. They are willing to let their campaigns die on any hill. Even when winning is the only way to enact change.
Progressives (you included) don’t learn from this lesson no matter how many times voters teach it.
This is why the US government keeps moving right. Progressives would rather throw every election than do what it takes to stop genocide.
Ah yes, the old “stopping genocide by voting for parties that promise to commit genocide” tactic. Works every time!
Man listen to yourself.
Voting isn’t enough for the genocide wing. They want a total absence of criticism for their genocide support.
Exactly. It’s so fucked up to see.
Harris being bad about economy made her lost
You’re saying leftists helped Trump win because they think his economy is better.
People from all races and classes was fooled by Trump thanks to the terrible job Harris did in her campaign
If progressives knew how to run a campaign they would be able to win elections.
Progressives lose so consistently that they have to depend on the DNC to even have a voice because there are so few of them.
Progressives can’t even win against AIPAC funded candidates but they will insist that the DNC follow their same losing campaign strategies.
The candidate against Trump was Harris a democrat so I don’t know why you talk about the progressives. Harris had a chance to win if she had a good compaign focusing on the economy so it is ok to critisize her. If the candidate running against Trump was a progressives and had a terrible compaign I would have the same critisim because i am not a cultist like you or the member of the republican cult
If you don’t understand the relationship between progressives protesting the alternative to Trump and Trump winning then I can’t understand it for you. This is common sense.
You just don’t want anyone to protest against your precious genocide ever. No centrist does. Genocide is all any of you has ever been or ever will be.
I never heard them say do not vote for Harris because of economy and border security. Those was the top issues of americans that led Trump to win
If the genocide-and-nothing-else wing knew how to run a campaign, we wouldn’t have trump right now.
Open support for Palestine caused progressives candidates to lose to AIPAC funded candidates.
Liberals knew this was a losing move and didn’t choose it.
Progressives, who consistently lose elections, chose to die on this hill so their campaigns died and now they have no way to stop the genocide they amplified.
You knew genocide was a losing move and chose it anyway because you would rather have genocide than win. There is nothing else to centrism. NOTHING. Genocide is all you are.
You keep spamming this bullshit because nazi shit like you thinks that repeating lies makes them true.
If the leftists you hate because and only because they don’t want all Palestinians dead like you always have were so damned important to Harris’ chances, she should have listened to them instead of trying to court people whose policies are identical to yours in the republican party.
I don’t want Palestinians dead. That’s why I am pointing out that progressives lost to AIPAC funded candidates. I want progressives to learn from their mistakes and learn how to run a campaign so that one day they might win an election for a change. Maybe then they can stop suckling at the teat of the DNC to stay alive.
You wont nothing else. NOTHING. ELSE.
You’re gloating that your garbage pro-genocide party only protects pro-genocide incumbents from challengers.
Your wing of the party prefers trump to ever stopping their genocide support. You got a candidate you are happy with: anyone who supports genocide for you.
You’re gloating that you have maximized the genocide if the Palestinian children.
You’re wing of the party prefers amplifying the genocide over actually doing what it takes to end the genocide.
You preferred losing to stopping genocide support.
Right wing by whose standards? There are a lot of Euro-centric folks who forget anti-capitalist= leftist is NOT universal.
Understand that your American definition of left and right is not based at all on actual, factual analysis of of political theory and based entirely on American propaganda. There are base definitions for these things, even if Americans seem to think that “the Overton window” is relevant in intelligent discussion around the world with these things. Even if it was it wouldn’t shift the actual definition of these words, but your perceptions by proxy.
I am referring to the actual definitions of these terms.
At a certain point it’s not even worth arguing with these people. They’ve been sold propaganda by American liberals and conservatives for so long that they cannot get it out of their head. They bought it hook line and sinker. They’ve been sitting there while the Overton Windows being shifted and they’ve been going along with it happily.
Yeah man, like I seriously don’t get it. These aren’t difficult concepts, but American liberals are just incapable of understanding that A LOT OF PEOPLE WILL BE HARDLINE ABOUT GENOCIDE. Convince your politicians that it’s not okay to do genocide. I GUARANTEE YOU it’s easier than convincing me that genocide is okay.
I understand that all of your claims are Euro-centric and that’s a problem.
There are definitions of right and left and they are relative to the society in question. Anyone trying to force a universal definition will quickly fond their definitions wanting.
For the USA Harris is center left. In KSA Harris would be extreme far left for suggesting that there should be rights for women and no king. These definitions are relative.
I’m not European. American problems directly affect my country. And these right wing/left wing discussions mean something. Someone cannot claim to be left wing or have my sympathies when they’re just claiming to be left wing while being oppose to me on every issue I care about. I know it’s hard for liberals to understand this, although I have no clue why.
The fact you aren’t European is immaterial as your claim is Euro-centric. Anti-capitalism = left is not universal to all nations. In DPRK suggesting there not be a hereditary dictatorship but rather a parliamentary system would be insanely far left yet that’s standard for most nations.
Not all nations are in the same place for development and it is a colossal mistake to label what is true for Europe as being true for all given the history of evil rooted in Eurocentric perspectives.
Okay, you obviously have no clue what you’re talking about. I’ll leave you to it pal, have a good life.
That’s an odd way of “I would prefer my racist take, thanks”.
In no way, shape, or form is what I’m saying racist you absolute twit. If you’re gonna reach that far for something, you should be reaching up your ass to pull your head out of it.
You are politically illiterate
Them pretending that there is some international standard definition for what is right or left is hilarious. Typical Europeans to think the world revolves around them. They’ve never beaten the colonizer out of their minds.
They said they aren’t European. I susoect their education in political philosophy comes from non-academic sources as I see this specific Euro-centric claim frequently from those educated through memes and forums.
By the world’s standards, you potato. By comparing her to others in this country, you corndog-stick. By simply looking at her positions, you meatloaf stain. By whom she supports, you pickle wart.
There is no “ world’s standard” there IS a EUROPEAN standard but we should never mistake European views for the world as the jerks with that Euro-centric perspective are behind most of the genocide and colonization in history.
Go troll elsewhere, you milk stain.
Wearing a bright color is considered extremely progressive in Afghanistan. These dudes really are just pretending Europe speaks for the world.
Exactly, what constitutes “progressive” and “conservative” are relative to their time and place. Mistaking what is true for Western Europe as being true for all is historically problematic.
How did Harris “do war crimes”? Did she give orders to the IDF? Is she a member of the Israeli government?
It took a while before the international community sort of acknowledged this war was a genocide. Israel always has been great at playing the victim, and has always been under the protection of the US. In this context, the US government under Biden provided support, as it often does. Many other states did, and still do.
My point is, the whole fucking world is complicit. Is everyone a war criminal now? Should we be using this to drive yet another wedge among the left?
Most of the world is to an extent, but not all the world is war crime levels of complicit. Arming people with the knowledge they’ll be committing war crimes is a war crime, full stop. Israel was bombing hospitals and aid workers from day one.
First, Harris is not part of “the left.” Second, opposing genocide is basic human decency. For any vaguely left-lesning cause, someone who can’t even do that much is less than worthless; they’re a liability.
Never said she was, but I am, maybe you are, as well as a lot of people in this thread who keep insulting each other.
See how this works?
how?
SHE SUPPORTED AMERICA’S INVOLVEMENT FROM HER POSITION OF POWER. Stop being a bootlicking piece of shit for one second and you’ll realize it’s OK to call her what she is: a goddamned criminal.
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no. it is not. to support israel is to support genocide. from its inception it’s been genocide the entire time. it is ok for things to feel uncomfortable but that’s how you progress. genocide bad. ok?
You’ll do anything to justify the genocide all centrists dearly love.
Sure she did. BeHiNd ThE sCeNeS.
KHAMAAS!!!
Israel created hamas, trough hundred years of genocide and occupation. It is a Zionist settler colonial project created in image of the USA. Hamas are a reaction to exactly that, it is a resistance shaped by generations of genocide, discrimination and persecution. Israel stole the land of Palestine and now wishes to expand towards Lebanon and Syria. And they won’t stop, they are the stronghold of the US interests in the region, they are supported by both parties.
Not only Harris supported defensive weapons but also offensive weapon. Don’t you think giving gaza defensive arms would also save palestinian lives too? Would you also have supported Nazi getting weapons from your country while they comited genocide? The occupying forces and grnocidal state shouldn’t have sny right to self defence
It sounds so simple, it must really be simple.
It is simple to not go to an aipac event and not to promise uncondtional support.
Simple or not is beside the point anyway
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It is not. She accepted a position of power that require to fix complex issues so people has the right to critisize just like a parent can critisize a terrible teachers that not do her job correctly
It is
You sound so simple.
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No it isn’t. Do you also support sending weapons and money to Russia? Would you have supported it for Nazi Germany? Do you really not appreciate the insanity of saying “it’s possible to oppose the holocaust while also supporting sending troops to guard the death camp!”
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Everyone who, from a place of power to do so, aided in a genocide, in the world, is in fact a war criminal. Yes, that’s what that fucking means. Democrats are not the left. And if I have to support genocide to work with someone I will not be working with that person or their movement. It’s ridiculous I even have to say that.
Which is why you’re working with a national party that has a real chance of affecting change in America!
Um, which party was that, again?
I’m not American, and am working with parties that affect actual change in my country. What YOU need to realize is that your parties are not the ways you affect actual change anymore in the United States. You have two right wing genocide parties. How you fix that is with popular working class movements, not by shaming people who are actively trying to foster them. Your country is the way it is in large part because of people like you shrieking “vote blue no matter who” while the democrats move further and further to the right and help wreak untold havoc on the rest of the world.
Edited for the sake of civility.
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American liberals absolutely do not know what they’re talking about at all but you do you, I see how well it’s been working so far.
You. Would. Not. Know.
Because politics includes everything, not just soundbites cherrypicked by various propaganda arms, not just random comments on the web. Everything else that makes up a society plays into what politics is. Your understanding is necessarily incomplete - likely very incomplete.
But you do you. I see how well it’s been working in your country so far.
No, you weasel fart, I think @cruxifux@feddit.nl is very well informed. I’ve interacted with them for a couple years now. The United States political system is unfortunately well-known around the world. Far more, I’m sure, than you’re informed about say, The Netherlands.
Nah, I know from talking with drooling morons like you online and also in person every time Americans come here to visit or whenever I visit there.
Keep gloating that your only policy is supported by both parties.
Anybody who don’t resign from a government complicit in genocide is a war criminal
Is my buddy a war criminal because he didn’t give up his job with the Postal Service?
Your buddy did not promise unconditional support for Israel the settler colonial power oppressing and stealing Palestinians land for half a century and billions of military budget to Israel.
You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments
“Anybody who don’t resign from a government complicit in genocide is a war criminal”
“You guys are so dumb with your brainless arguments”
Im 100% positive that no one is dumber than the claims you have made back to back.
Nobody dumber than politician dick suckers like you
Post office delivery drivers are not government officials, dumbass
You said “work for a government” you did not set the goalposts where you are attempting to move them to.
Let’s not get uncivil here given you are complaining the Vice President, who typically has little to no power to effect change, wasn’t an agent of change.
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