What’s a suitable punishment Anthropic?
(chasing) Whats a suitable punishment motherfucker?
The thief cries “catch the thief!”
New Qwen release incoming!
Q: if you steal a stolen thng, is it stealing?
you can’t just call anything you don’t like “an attack”
I declare an attack!
You cannot just declare it. That doesn’t do anything…
How about “terrorism” or “national security threat”?
Stop attacking me!
Exactly!
Still, stop attacking me.
Nooooo, you can’t train on OUR data! That’s illegal!!!1
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If every AI company steals the public data separately, it means massively increased costs for everyone who is getting their data stolen. If the AI companies “steal” from each other it’s much better for everyone else.
No difference. Distillation is a valid and useful way of generating data to improve or make new models. It’s still just example data to be trained on. Anthropic is doing the same with their own models, and inadvertently every other model through web scraping.
The legal difference is that this data is uncopyrightable. At most it’s a TOS breach, nothing major.
Claude is trained on stolen data (the whole Internet), so I can’t have any sympathy for Anthropic when someone steals from them.
Seems like it’s up to Anthropic to teach it’s AI model not to pimp itself out.
Ai is already dog shit, there is a level of concern if we start getting ai incest and the absolute fucking retards shoving this shit everywhere goes from using unethical ai to unethical incest ai.
There’s no way this isn’t just going to make everything worse.
I have zero sympathy for anthropic but can we not make a shit situation worse and just be ok with that cause the first dude is Hitler and the second dude is mega Hitler.
Ok the flip side if this some how creates a more efficient and power conservative model that doesn’t fuck over consumers and the environment as hard.
PIRATE MORE ALIBABA YOU DA CHAMP
I welcome it getting worse. The worse it gets the faster it will collapse.
Why the fuck would they do that if Anthropic is being kind enough to just give them that data (regardless of how it makes them be butthurt)?
The article is not clear on what a “distillation attack” is… what exactly is Alibaba supposed to be getting away with here? The article mentions using many different connections through obfuscation networks and proxies… so that would get them around rate limiting, and maybe enable them to submit many queries on free accounts… just spin up a new account whenever you hit the token limit of an unpaid account. So basically it’s a terms of service violation?
I don’t see why it’s necessarily a huge leg up for a competitor… they are just using the outputs of another model as training data. They still need to train their model, which is the expensive and energy intensive part.
It sounds to me like Anthropic just wants the US Government to help enforce its TOS internationally and force Alibaba to pay for those precious tokens? Because apart from that piece, the “attack” just seems like normal use of the service. If Anthropic’s service has an inherent vulnerability, that’s their problem.
Of course all the other comments about how they stole all their training data in the first place are spot on.
Distillation allows you to make a smaller model that can produce the same outputs as a larger model. Basically they’re pirating all of the hard work anthropic did pirating the entire internet.
Alibaba gets a model that produces basically the same output for a tiny fraction of the cost to operate the model once it’s finished training. Distillation training also uses basically all of its data from the big model (afaik it’s all of it sourced from the parent model)
It’s like if you took a lump of metal and showed it Porsche 911s until it turned into a 911 shaped chunk of metal that had 95% of the performance, but it only cost you $3000 for the ingot, and also cost ⅕ the amount in fuel and maintenance.
Ok, thanks for the detailed explanation. I guess if your goal is to make your model sound like another model that makes perfect sense.
Maybe they can protect themselves with a… great firewall of USA?
oh no, the data I stole is being stolen, whatever shall I do.
In other news, does anyone know a good source for crocodile tears? I ran out.
Sounds like Google complaining about scraping.
Claude’s still there, seems Alibaba’s attack wasn’t really all it’s cracked up to be.
Now the US gov’s attack seems to be working since Claude Fable 5 is still not there.
Lol corporate thieves bitching about other corporate thieves is the funniest part of 2026
Okay, so Anthropic distills MY copywriter data and it’s fine.
Alibaba distills Anthropic non-copywritable and that demands retaliation at the nation state level.
Fuck off. The rules are abundantly clear.
Anthropic just knows it has political leverage, that’s it. Large parts of US infrastructure and business now rely on Claude models to even function the way they do with the staff they do, and you can leverage that dependence into political action and retaliation pretty easily in the name of “national security”.
They stole to monetize without paying in money or attribution what we stole to monetize without paying money or attribution!
Well, they did pay, just after the fact.
Well they didn’t pay me. But still used all my open source mit and agpl, gpl icensed code to train their model. And now I need to rent their compute back.
You chose to publish under that essentially says “do whatever, I dont care”. I can understand people who wrote GPL code being peeved, but writing stuff under MIT is pretty much designed to let companies take it and not give back.
Sorry also some projects are agpl or gpl indeed. I actually meant to say agpl. They most likely also stole that. Let’s be honest here.
For example my WineGUI project is agpl. Also I’m also fine if they trained on it. But then they should open source their models and data and their other projects.
I mean sure, Anthropic are pricks, but “they did exactly what the license I put on my code said they could” is probably not the way to highlight that.
My bad. I actually meant agpl. And gpl. You’re right to point out the that mit is fine. Which is true. Mit can be used for whatever.
But my for example my WineGUI project is agpl. Pretty sure those Ai companies used all open source code regardless of the license.
I’m actually also fine if they trained on my agpl code. But then they should have open sourced their models and data. And their whole project.
That’s settlement, not a payment for the stolen goods. If I steal your shit, and to avoid going to jail I offer you some money, I am not paying for what I stole, I’m paying to avoid further consequences.
Is there a scenario in which they both lose? I’ll take that.
Alibabas Qwen were among the first open weights models that were actually useful and can be run on consumer hardware without too much difficulties.
If they continue with that, they will hurt the business model of the big AI companies significantly, accelerating the burst of the bubble.
What’s the science behind cloning?
LLMs are trained by taking a passage of text and masking out the next words. The LLM has to guess what the next word is going to be.
If you use the output of a fancy ass billion dollar model as your training data, you can duplicate the output style and “knowledge” of the parent model if you show it enough responses. That’s basically what Alibaba did. They prompted the shit out of Claude and used the responses to train their own model which allows you to piggyback off of Claude’s hard work pirating the entire internet. Your cloned model can also be smaller and leaner, being cheaper to operate.
I said this elsewhere but it’s like taking a block of metal and showing it Porsche 911s until it turned into a Porsche 911 with 95% of the performance, and it also costs ⅕ the cost to maintain and fuel it.
here’s the thing with the Porsche analogy. you had to buy or rent the Porsche first. paid for it and used it exactly within the TOS outlined in the contract. no law was broken.
what Anthropic is arguing is that anything their model comes up with remains Anthropic IP. this means they will literally need to sue every single one of their customers first, before they even have a snowballs chance in hell of pursuing Alibaba.
they already set the precedent by not legally pursuing their customers that use paid content generated by their model, and it automatically becomes the property of the end user.
95% of performance is impressive for a clone
It’s approximate but yeah you can get roughly in that ballpark. The biggest benefit is making the model weights smaller and cheaper to run. You can fit 5X as many instances on the same server if you distill down while having basically the same output.
The main caveat is you need to absolutely hammer the main model with questions from all angles to try and get it to present as much of its internalized knowledge as possible. Which is why Anthropic is pissed about this since they’re barely making money off of these prompts to train a more efficient competitor (BTW this is how “mini” or other models are trained. They’re distillates)
