If you’re going to fast to make a normal turn at the light, you’re too close to that intersection to stop safely, and you should proceed without braking.
Yellow means it’s turning red. Beyond that the safest way to treat it is how everyone else in the area treats it. It’s like what I tell my stepson, it’s better to be predictable than right. There’s a lot of dead pedestrians and cyclists that had the right of way.
That is the key though. I see so many people treat the yellow light like “you must be at a stop before it turns red… right now” and slam on the brakes even though they could have made it through either at their current speed or slightly speeding up.
But instead they create a dangerous situation where the car behind them almost rear ends them.
Reacting and having to react are two different things. Just because I can react and stop in time, even quickly doesn’t mean you should be slamming on your brakes like an idiot just because the light is yellow.
As much as it can suck, in that situation it’s best to hang further back to increase visibility. You should be far enough back that you can see the light before entering the intersection.
I drive a subcompact so this is my daily life living in an area full of brodozers and semis.
Do people honk at me? Yup. But I haven’t ran a red light yet, I see it all the time from people following too close to some huge truck that ran it too.
So now you’ve completely ignored the “if you can” part of your own statement and are implying that you must come to a stop on a yellow.
What I am saying is that if you’re slamming on your brakes at a yellow you’re doing it wrong and in the process creating a potentially dangerous situation for others.
If you are at a point where you feel the need to slam on your brakes, the correct action is to continue through the intersection. Someone else mentioned that red light cameras are a big source of blame and I agree with what because they’re probably thinking “oh no! Red light equals instant ticket!”
you’ve completely ignored the “if you can” part of your own statement
you’re replying to a different person…
either way, it doesn’t matter. If I have to slam on my brakes and you’re following too close for safety… that’s a you problem. Riding my ass doesn’t make the limit faster.
But also a you problem when you’re stuck with life long medical issues. Is that really worth it to not roll through a yellow light as the vast majority of drivers expect people to do?
Lots of cities like to kill people by making their yellow lights short. There is no standard for yellow light timing. They have been getting longer which I like, along with all red periods.
Only if the light timings are such that stopping in time is difficult. Which I know is the case in some shitty places, but it’s the fault of the timings, not the cameras.
It’s a once burned, twice shy sort of thing where even if people are technically ok to continue through they might really (ironically) air on the side of caution and aggressively stop to avoid that red light ticket.
Never mind some municipalities were caught shortening the yellow light timings specifically to aid the red light cameras in ticketing more people.
What? No. It has nothing to do with the timing. You could give 12 seconds yellow lights, plenty enough time to get through, but as soon as you put up a camera, some jackass is still going to come to a complete stop rather than risk the possibility of a camera catching them “running” a red light.
It has nothing to do with the timing of the lights, and everything to do with the psychology of people being recorded.
If it lasts 12 seconds, you have 12 seconds between the light turning amber and it turning red. No-one is slamming on the moment it turns to amber, because no-one believes they will blast through it if they continue at that point. There is no risk, so the psychology of people can’t make them avoid the risk.
You’re assuming you know how long it lasts, as does everyone else on the road. That is an exceptionally poor assumption. You can’t make that assumption simply because you set the timing on your traffic light to 12 seconds of yellow. To make that assumption, every driver who sees your traffic light must not have ever seen any traffic light with a shorter yellow. One driver whose home town used 3-second yellow lights and red light cameras is not going to know you use 12-second yellows, and he’s going to slam on his brakes as soon as they come on. Your 12-second drivers behind him are going to be forced to panic stop because of him.
If his home town used 3-second yellows without traffic cameras, without excessive enforcement, he’s going to roll through anyway. He’s not going to slam on his brakes
This is a property of the distribution of light timings across a territory, and is still not something to do with red-light cameras.
If his home town used 3-second yellows without traffic cameras, without excessive enforcement, he’s going to roll through anyway
He’s going to blow a red light? And you think that’s a better situation than him not blowing it?
In my country I believe all traffic lights have approximately three seconds. It’s enough; you need to have a good idea coming up to each light of when you’re going to disregard the light, so that you’ve done your decision-making before it changes. Then, if it changes just before that point, you need to brake positively, not leisurely. Somehow, all learner drivers manage it.
If you view amber lights as “stop as long as able” rather than “continue if able” you wouldn’t be in the embarrassing position of seemingly advocating purposefully blasting through red lights.
He’s going to blow a red light? And you think that’s a better situation than him not blowing it?
Correct.
After the yellow, there is a period of 2-4 seconds where all lights in every direction are red, before cross traffic is given a green. Our 3-second (no camera) driver completes his journey through the intersection during this “red all-ball” stage.
This is a property of the distribution of light timings across a territory,
That is exactly what I said. I went further, and reminded you that traffic light timings are not universal. They differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Generally not by much, occasionally by a lot.
In my country I believe all traffic lights have approximately three seconds.
Your country is the exception, then, and not the rule. Generally, yellow light duration is supposed to be calculated from the greater of the posted speed limit, or actual, observed speeds. 3 seconds is not adequate for an intersection 45mph or greater.
and is still not something to do with red-light cameras.
Where cameras are largely absent, drivers tend to favor “reasonable effort” to comply with the yellow. The “reasonable effort” driver will only brake for a fresh yellow light if they can complete a normal stop; they will not initiate hard, “panic” braking. The additional “red all-ball” signal stage provides ample protection. No additional danger arises from a “reasonable effort” driver choosing to proceed instead of introducing the unnecessary hazards of “panic” braking.
Where cameras are present, drives tend to favor “strict compliance”, braking hard and dangerously to ensure they don’t cross the stop bar during the red and risk a citation. The “red all-ball” stage is superfluous to this driver.
“Panic” braking introduces a risk of control loss from loss of traction, as well as excess wear and tear on tires, wheels, brakes, suspension and steering components. “Panic braking” poses considerably higher risks than a “reasonable effort” approach to yellow-light compliance.
This. Yellow means stop if you can (edit: if you can safely)
Yellow means stop if you can… do so safely.
If you’re going to fast to make a normal turn at the light, you’re too close to that intersection to stop safely, and you should proceed without braking.
Yes that’s what I meant as well. I’ll edit to make it clear.
Yellow means it’s turning red. Beyond that the safest way to treat it is how everyone else in the area treats it. It’s like what I tell my stepson, it’s better to be predictable than right. There’s a lot of dead pedestrians and cyclists that had the right of way.
Agreed that predictability is the priority on the road. But people shouldn’t be expecting everyone to rush through yellows with disregard either.
As a driver should be expecting it, but not upset when they don’t.
As a pedestrian you have to expect it, and be pleasantly surprised when they do.
That is the key though. I see so many people treat the yellow light like “you must be at a stop before it turns red… right now” and slam on the brakes even though they could have made it through either at their current speed or slightly speeding up.
But instead they create a dangerous situation where the car behind them almost rear ends them.
you need to be keeping a safer distance if you can’t safely react to an emergency break in front of you m8
Reacting and having to react are two different things. Just because I can react and stop in time, even quickly doesn’t mean you should be slamming on your brakes like an idiot just because the light is yellow.
Both of you got the same information, you both see the yellow light. Don’t expect cars in front to not break on a yellow
The fun part is when both of you don’t… because you’re in a sedan 4 car lengths back from a jacked up FU Freedumb truck and can’t see the light.
As much as it can suck, in that situation it’s best to hang further back to increase visibility. You should be far enough back that you can see the light before entering the intersection.
I drive a subcompact so this is my daily life living in an area full of brodozers and semis.
Do people honk at me? Yup. But I haven’t ran a red light yet, I see it all the time from people following too close to some huge truck that ran it too.
So now you’ve completely ignored the “if you can” part of your own statement and are implying that you must come to a stop on a yellow.
What I am saying is that if you’re slamming on your brakes at a yellow you’re doing it wrong and in the process creating a potentially dangerous situation for others.
If you are at a point where you feel the need to slam on your brakes, the correct action is to continue through the intersection. Someone else mentioned that red light cameras are a big source of blame and I agree with what because they’re probably thinking “oh no! Red light equals instant ticket!”
you’re replying to a different person…
either way, it doesn’t matter. If I have to slam on my brakes and you’re following too close for safety… that’s a you problem. Riding my ass doesn’t make the limit faster.
But also a you problem when you’re stuck with life long medical issues. Is that really worth it to not roll through a yellow light as the vast majority of drivers expect people to do?
That dangerous situation is created by the following driver and their failure to maintain a safe following distance
If you need to speed up to make it through, you were either going too fast or could have stopped. Which is it?
Lots of cities like to kill people by making their yellow lights short. There is no standard for yellow light timing. They have been getting longer which I like, along with all red periods.
Not in my country.
Good for you
Red light cameras are partly to blame; it makes people more afraid to safely clear the intersection instead of slamming on the brakes
Only if the light timings are such that stopping in time is difficult. Which I know is the case in some shitty places, but it’s the fault of the timings, not the cameras.
It’s a once burned, twice shy sort of thing where even if people are technically ok to continue through they might really (ironically) air on the side of caution and aggressively stop to avoid that red light ticket.
Never mind some municipalities were caught shortening the yellow light timings specifically to aid the red light cameras in ticketing more people.
What? No. It has nothing to do with the timing. You could give 12 seconds yellow lights, plenty enough time to get through, but as soon as you put up a camera, some jackass is still going to come to a complete stop rather than risk the possibility of a camera catching them “running” a red light.
It has nothing to do with the timing of the lights, and everything to do with the psychology of people being recorded.
If it lasts 12 seconds, you have 12 seconds between the light turning amber and it turning red. No-one is slamming on the moment it turns to amber, because no-one believes they will blast through it if they continue at that point. There is no risk, so the psychology of people can’t make them avoid the risk.
The timings are inseparable.
You’re assuming you know how long it lasts, as does everyone else on the road. That is an exceptionally poor assumption. You can’t make that assumption simply because you set the timing on your traffic light to 12 seconds of yellow. To make that assumption, every driver who sees your traffic light must not have ever seen any traffic light with a shorter yellow. One driver whose home town used 3-second yellow lights and red light cameras is not going to know you use 12-second yellows, and he’s going to slam on his brakes as soon as they come on. Your 12-second drivers behind him are going to be forced to panic stop because of him.
If his home town used 3-second yellows without traffic cameras, without excessive enforcement, he’s going to roll through anyway. He’s not going to slam on his brakes
This is a property of the distribution of light timings across a territory, and is still not something to do with red-light cameras.
He’s going to blow a red light? And you think that’s a better situation than him not blowing it?
In my country I believe all traffic lights have approximately three seconds. It’s enough; you need to have a good idea coming up to each light of when you’re going to disregard the light, so that you’ve done your decision-making before it changes. Then, if it changes just before that point, you need to brake positively, not leisurely. Somehow, all learner drivers manage it.
If you view amber lights as “stop as long as able” rather than “continue if able” you wouldn’t be in the embarrassing position of seemingly advocating purposefully blasting through red lights.
Correct.
After the yellow, there is a period of 2-4 seconds where all lights in every direction are red, before cross traffic is given a green. Our 3-second (no camera) driver completes his journey through the intersection during this “red all-ball” stage.
That is exactly what I said. I went further, and reminded you that traffic light timings are not universal. They differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Generally not by much, occasionally by a lot.
Your country is the exception, then, and not the rule. Generally, yellow light duration is supposed to be calculated from the greater of the posted speed limit, or actual, observed speeds. 3 seconds is not adequate for an intersection 45mph or greater.
Where cameras are largely absent, drivers tend to favor “reasonable effort” to comply with the yellow. The “reasonable effort” driver will only brake for a fresh yellow light if they can complete a normal stop; they will not initiate hard, “panic” braking. The additional “red all-ball” signal stage provides ample protection. No additional danger arises from a “reasonable effort” driver choosing to proceed instead of introducing the unnecessary hazards of “panic” braking.
Where cameras are present, drives tend to favor “strict compliance”, braking hard and dangerously to ensure they don’t cross the stop bar during the red and risk a citation. The “red all-ball” stage is superfluous to this driver.
“Panic” braking introduces a risk of control loss from loss of traction, as well as excess wear and tear on tires, wheels, brakes, suspension and steering components. “Panic braking” poses considerably higher risks than a “reasonable effort” approach to yellow-light compliance.