Why are people so defensive. Like you could just post a picture of your grandpa near a tank. Potentially an interesting historical glimpse. Why do you personally need to make sure gramps wasn’t a Nazi and that everyone knows. So what… Sins of the Father and all that. Unless you’re a Nazi wannabe yourself.
We have pictures of my grandma on display in my house. People will be like “Who’s that?” and I’ll reply “Oh that’s my grandma. She was a racist, misogynistic, anti-semite.”
I don’t get why people always feel the need to defend their shitty relatives. But I might have a personality disorder IDK
I mean exactly. Like remember them, look at old photos, etc. History is interesting… Often even mundane history is interesting. But why pretend it is different than it was?
Maybe just the autism speaking. I do not understand this need to deceive
I don’t think it’s entirely the autism speaking, a lot of people put an incredible amount of stock in, essentially, blood and soil ideology, especially the blood. It’s something I noticed in highschool, that people will treat their family’s, and especially their parent’s, achievements as their own - taking pride in them and ascribing themselves those same abilities. That then extends to treating their family’s shame as their own personal shames, so like this, they try to hide or excuse it - “I’m not a nazi, so my grandfather couldn’t have been”.
I think autism made it more obvious for me, but plenty of neurotypicals aren’t like that, whether they notice others are or not.
And plenty of autistic people get real weird about it too. I’ve met an autistic Nazi before who was perversely interested in tracking family genealogy because that’s what he was hyper interested in. Like, he’d do family trees for other people based on snooping without them knowing about it. I’m not sure what came first, chicken or the egg, but one hand sure washed the other when it came to the hobby and the political beliefs, that’s for sure.
I think it’s a pretty astute observation at the underlying ideology at work here. Whether we’re taken by that meta narrative of self-identity or not though isn’t connected to one’s cognitive neuro-spicy level I don’t think, it’s just brain worms that’ll take root in any soil as people try to develop a sense of identity and community and aren’t given the tools to understand themselves as part of a class so instead kludge together something based on individualistic narratives.
My grandmother started telling me the crime problem in American cities is because of all the black people.
I tried arguing the point, so she called me a “removed-lover,” so I punched her in the head. And that was how I ended up homeless, originally.
No regrets (except maybe that I should have punched her harder, I guess), but there are some practical reasons people tend to fall all over themselves to defend the hands that feed them, as it were.
Yes I see that but my question is why? I’m not my grandpa. My grandpa crewed bombers in WW2 for America. If it transpired he bombed a hospital full of babies I wouldn’t feel the need to prove he was a good guy or something.
More of a question of human psychology than one I expect an easy answer to.
Sorry I was being snarky to the redditor. I didn’t mean to be snarky towards you.
It’s the cognitive dissonance and/or backfire effect. People hate feeling wrong or evil, and they get emotional and defensive when some facts says “this dude is bad”, even if the evidence is quite overwhelming.
I believe that leftists are less prone to this, although not immune. We spent time ridding ourselves of bad ideology that we picked up as kids. Liberals have a lot of cracks in their ideological armour, lots of places they’re secretly afraid that they’re wrong, but unwilling to admit to themselves.
Edit: what I mean to say is that the idea that this redditor is related to a Nazi, or himself a Nazi, is secretly quite painful to him.
Ya that makes sense and no worries on the snark. Didn’t feel snarked at.
You are right that I think leftists necessarily (in the west atleast) have to unlearn lots of things to become avowed leftists. This means many of us have already done the work of accepting painful history. I know history so the idea that a normal historical person (even one that happens to be related to me) could be evil isn’t strange.
idgi either. all of my grandathers were dead when I was born, but due to a remarriage I acquired a living grand parent who fought in WW2. he was a friendly guy, but harbored some weird cultish opinions about The LORD or whatever and was very much an uncritical product of his place and time regarding race and gender.
overall, he seems more likeable than the ones that died before I was born… people who were raging, abusive drunks dying from their choices before 50.
I don’t really get the impulse to do reputation management for them. just say who they were and what they were about to any curious party. maybe if any of them left me any $ I would feel like I was supposed to explain or justify something.
Ngl i and i suspect alot of people here would still make fun of this guy if he just posted a picture of his nazi grandpa without any caveats unless he was explicitly saying something like “i dont defend anything he may have done” lol
Sure but posting with no commentary at all a photo of a Nazi would just be strange like if make fun of that also. “Here is a Nazi” pretty weird.
If someone posted (to a forum where posting old photos is the point) such a picture and said something explaining the history and condemning Nazis that’s fine.
Why are people so defensive. Like you could just post a picture of your grandpa near a tank. Potentially an interesting historical glimpse. Why do you personally need to make sure gramps wasn’t a Nazi and that everyone knows. So what… Sins of the Father and all that. Unless you’re a Nazi wannabe yourself.
We have pictures of my grandma on display in my house. People will be like “Who’s that?” and I’ll reply “Oh that’s my grandma. She was a racist, misogynistic, anti-semite.”
I don’t get why people always feel the need to defend their shitty relatives. But I might have a personality disorder IDK
I mean exactly. Like remember them, look at old photos, etc. History is interesting… Often even mundane history is interesting. But why pretend it is different than it was?
Maybe just the autism speaking. I do not understand this need to deceive
I don’t think it’s entirely the autism speaking, a lot of people put an incredible amount of stock in, essentially, blood and soil ideology, especially the blood. It’s something I noticed in highschool, that people will treat their family’s, and especially their parent’s, achievements as their own - taking pride in them and ascribing themselves those same abilities. That then extends to treating their family’s shame as their own personal shames, so like this, they try to hide or excuse it - “I’m not a nazi, so my grandfather couldn’t have been”.
I think autism made it more obvious for me, but plenty of neurotypicals aren’t like that, whether they notice others are or not.
And plenty of autistic people get real weird about it too. I’ve met an autistic Nazi before who was perversely interested in tracking family genealogy because that’s what he was hyper interested in. Like, he’d do family trees for other people based on snooping without them knowing about it. I’m not sure what came first, chicken or the egg, but one hand sure washed the other when it came to the hobby and the political beliefs, that’s for sure.
I think it’s a pretty astute observation at the underlying ideology at work here. Whether we’re taken by that meta narrative of self-identity or not though isn’t connected to one’s cognitive neuro-spicy level I don’t think, it’s just brain worms that’ll take root in any soil as people try to develop a sense of identity and community and aren’t given the tools to understand themselves as part of a class so instead kludge together something based on individualistic narratives.
in-group bullshit goes brrrrrr
My grandmother started telling me the crime problem in American cities is because of all the black people.
I tried arguing the point, so she called me a “removed-lover,” so I punched her in the head. And that was how I ended up homeless, originally.
No regrets (except maybe that I should have punched her harder, I guess), but there are some practical reasons people tend to fall all over themselves to defend the hands that feed them, as it were.
I mean I would understand if someone was dependent on someone. redditor is not dependent on his grandfather who died 10 years before he was born.
Good on ya for standing up to awful old people damn the consequences. I’m blessed since non of my grandparents seemed particularly racist/sexist/etc
People are defensive when their grandparents are provably nazis.
Yes I see that but my question is why? I’m not my grandpa. My grandpa crewed bombers in WW2 for America. If it transpired he bombed a hospital full of babies I wouldn’t feel the need to prove he was a good guy or something.
More of a question of human psychology than one I expect an easy answer to.
Sorry I was being snarky to the redditor. I didn’t mean to be snarky towards you.
It’s the cognitive dissonance and/or backfire effect. People hate feeling wrong or evil, and they get emotional and defensive when some facts says “this dude is bad”, even if the evidence is quite overwhelming.
I believe that leftists are less prone to this, although not immune. We spent time ridding ourselves of bad ideology that we picked up as kids. Liberals have a lot of cracks in their ideological armour, lots of places they’re secretly afraid that they’re wrong, but unwilling to admit to themselves.
Edit: what I mean to say is that the idea that this redditor is related to a Nazi, or himself a Nazi, is secretly quite painful to him.
Ya that makes sense and no worries on the snark. Didn’t feel snarked at.
You are right that I think leftists necessarily (in the west atleast) have to unlearn lots of things to become avowed leftists. This means many of us have already done the work of accepting painful history. I know history so the idea that a normal historical person (even one that happens to be related to me) could be evil isn’t strange.
Especially in cases like this guy where his nazi grandfather died over a decade before he was born
idgi either. all of my grandathers were dead when I was born, but due to a remarriage I acquired a living grand parent who fought in WW2. he was a friendly guy, but harbored some weird cultish opinions about The LORD or whatever and was very much an uncritical product of his place and time regarding race and gender.
overall, he seems more likeable than the ones that died before I was born… people who were raging, abusive drunks dying from their choices before 50.
I don’t really get the impulse to do reputation management for them. just say who they were and what they were about to any curious party. maybe if any of them left me any $ I would feel like I was supposed to explain or justify something.
Ngl i and i suspect alot of people here would still make fun of this guy if he just posted a picture of his nazi grandpa without any caveats unless he was explicitly saying something like “i dont defend anything he may have done” lol
Sure but posting with no commentary at all a photo of a Nazi would just be strange like if make fun of that also. “Here is a Nazi” pretty weird.
If someone posted (to a forum where posting old photos is the point) such a picture and said something explaining the history and condemning Nazis that’s fine.