Pictured above: Jean Paul Sartre (existentialism), “Saint Max” Stirner (egoism/young Hegelian), Marcus Aurelius (stoicism)

I LOVE INDIVIDUALISM I LOVE ABSTRACTIONISM troll

  • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    2 months ago

    I think, while we can obviously extract a political significance from anything, part of the issue here is that Stoicism isn’t a political philosophy in the normal sense of the term, and even in what I read of Seneca he’s mostly doing self-help epistolaries like how Aurelius is doing self-help notes. I think, as an ethical philosophy, it’s a matter of interpretation rather than explicit doctrine what the politics of Stoicism is, and I don’t see there being any issue with a progressive interpretation of its values. We’ve seen many times people say that it directs people to merely cope with their class position, but is that true? Epictetus, who would have been regarded by Seneca and Aurelius as the Greek father of Roman Stoicism, was still born a slave and did not by any means suggest that people should remain where they are, and indeed discusses quite a lot about improving oneself and at least attempting to become something great, along with what we’ve discussed about being in cooperation with others, and Seneca for example is very clear that becoming a good person is at odds with politicking and chasing riches and status (despite he himself doing this).

    • QueerCommie [she/her, fae/faer]@hexbear.netOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      Self help and morals are fine and all, but some people do seem to think they’re conducive to revolutionary politics and not largely copes.

      Forgive my sarcasm, but

      “Epictetus was poor, but he did what was within his power and pulled himself up by his bootstraps. He preached to others to do the same. Working class icon. Meanwhile, Seneca said politicians are evil, but tried to be a good ruler. Cool dudes.”

      Marx:

      The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production, so that thereby, generally speaking, the ideas of those who lack the means of mental production are subject to it.