Summertime is terrible, especially in summer. You have one less usable hour in the evening.
During the summer you cannot really go outside until the sun goes down. It’s simply too hot in direct sunlight. Summer evenings are nice, after the sun goes down and the world starts to cool down a little. By moving the clock forwards we have an hour less of usable outdoor-time. It also means you have less time for things to cool down before going to sleep.
DST makes it so you have to go bed too early, being unable to enjoy the evening, and when you go to bed it’s too hot to sleep, but you have to because you have to get up at a ridiculous time the next morning.
Instead of DST we should introduce MST (Moonlight Saving TIme) and move the clock an hour backwards in summer. Then we can actually enjoy our summer evenings and go to bed once things have cooled down a little more. The earlier sunrise doesn’t matter since there is such a thing as blackout curtains.
You are literally doing that with the archaic “get up earlier” mentality. 99% of people will be awake at 5-6pm to take advantage of an extra hour of light.
Or, you know, wake up at the same literal time, no matter what the clock says. Listen to your circadian rhythms, not some number on the wall. The time shift doesn’t magically give people an extra hour. That’s all marketing. DST stands for Daylight Stealing Time, as far as I’m concerned.
Disclaimer: I’m a night owl; I could care less for waking up early.
That’s nice for people who don’t need to be out of bed until 6ish in the morning. See how much you might enjoy it when you need to be up a 4:30am every day. The last damn thing I need is the sun being up until 10pm and a bunch of clowns whoopin’ and hollerin’ until 11pm because DST.
Fuck that, y’all are addicted to caffeine and normalising it to the point where not being a coffee craving zombie in the morning is apparently a weird thing.
Sun after work is literally the only time I see sun in the winter.
Idk what your job is but do you not have any windows anywhere? Because that’s how you get burnout along with coffee addiction.
Fuck you morning people and normalizing waking up early in the morning to the point where sleeping until we’re rested is lazy and staying up “late” is irresponsible. We adapted to your schedule using the aids we have available and now you shame us as addicts for doing what we had to do to accommodate your morning hegemony. I say, how dare you sir!
/Half-joking
Bro I’m not even a morning person. And it’s because of that I need daylight in the morning to be able to get out of bed without being like Garfield on a Monday. I hate waking up in the morning as much as you do, but I hate it a bit less if the daylight is there too.
Oh I’ve got a window alright. It is set up perfectly right so that on the day after ST takes over I can see the sun set 6 minutes before I get off work. Sun’s down, guess I can go outside now!
That is absolutely devilish. I have to get to work so I’ll wake up whenever to get there. But all outdoors evening activities are, at best, a complete joke 5 months of the year because of fucking ST. Wanna take a quick jog around the neighborhood? Bad news bitch, it’s pitch black outside. Here’s to hoping I don’t get run over by a fucking bus.
“Sun rises after work starts” is a setup for caffeine addiction, but “sun sets before work ends” is a setup for crippling alcoholism. Literally nothing to look forward to all day long, five months a year. I will not take any shit from so-called morning people about this, there is one objective truth here and it’s that standard business hours being the worldwide standard that they are, ST the absolute fucking worst for office workers.
Cop-out answer. Ending capitalism and ending ST are not the same fight. I’m not confident I’ll see the former happen in my lifetime, but the latter is a distinct possibility (though the pro-ST “I hate to see the sun in my free time” people have a slight edge where I live). Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
Also I’m not even sure how ending capitalism is actually relevant. My skillset is office stuff, and until further notice humans still need to collaborate to get things done and therefore have a concept of “business hours” (though those don’t have to be 8-6).
I see the “8 hours of work is too many” angle, but that problem is mostly orthogonal to capitalism. Capitalist societies can (and have) changed the standard number of working hours. Communist societies are not exempt from the concept of mandatory labor either (quite the contrary for all historical examples!). If you’re looking for an economic model where everyone is free to work whenever they damn well please, I’m afraid you’ll have to bring the replicator thingies from Star Trek into existence first.
I have more issues with having to wake up in the dark than going home in the dark. And after all it’s just one hour. What are you going to do with 1 hour of daylight after work besides being stuck in traffic for most of that time? Unless you live close to your job of course…
I think your sentiment comes from people living on the western side of their time zone, where sunrise and sunset is an hour later than on the eastern end. On the western edge of the timezone (Detroit, for example, on the west end of the Eastern timezone), sunrise in winter could be as late as 9AM.
On the eastern end of a timezone, sunset can be as early as 3:45PM. As early as you want your sunlight, I think we can agree that a sunset before 4PM is ridiculously absurd.
If you are, indeed, on the western edge of the timezone as I think, we could adopt DST, and move you to the next zone to the west, which would put you on the same time as standard time in your current zone. You win, we win, everyone wins.
Alternatively, we could adopt Standard Time, and move people on the eastern edge to the next time zone to the east, which would put them on the same time zone as DST in their current time zone. Again, you win, we win, everyone wins.
Are you on the western edge of your timezone, or at least in the western half?
Exactly. New York would probably elect to stay permanently on UTC-4 (EDT/Atlantic Standard Time), and never switch to UTC-5 (EST) like they are now. Michigan would probably choose UTC-5 permanently, and never switch to UTC-4, like they currently do in the summer.
Both states are in the same time zone. They probably shouldn’t be when we go to permanent time.
Not having sunrise unill 8:15 in winter is nightmarish. Its also much easier to make your room dark in mid summer than stimulate sunrise in mid winter.
Just go outside earlier. We should change jobs and work hours not cause half of everyone sleep deprivation. We can all can win, but its not by using DST year round.
Let’s stop using the terms “DST” and “standard time”. They really confuse the issue. The contiguous US uses UTC-4 (EDT) , UTC-5 (EST/CDT) UTC-6 (CST/MDT), UTC-7 (MST/PDT) and UTC-8 (PST) time zones. We aren’t all going to be using the same UTC offset for permanent time. We are all going to be adopting the UTC offset that makes sense for our region.
New England and Michigan are currently in the same time zone, which switches between UTC-4 and UTC-5. Year-round UTC-5 puts dawn before 4am in New York City during the summer. New England should absolutely not be on UTC-5 in the summer. They should be on UTC-4. On permanent UTC-4, New York dawns will always be between 5 and 8 AM.
Year-round UTC-4 puts dawn at 9am in Detroit during the winter. Detroit should absolutely not be in UTC-4 in the winter. On permanent UTC-5, Detroit dawns will always be between 5 and 8 AM.
New York should be on permanent UTC-4.
Detroit should be on permanent UTC-5.
Side benefit: mid-day is once again at 12:00, instead of being at 13:00 DST. Not an issue for some, but it’s annoying for me to know that the sun’s local apex is an hour later than it should be.
I’m with you. I’ve been having a harder time getting up. Looking forward to having the sun at 7 o’clock latest, get me up, because I got shit to do. I can stay awake no problem.
Also, if the sun goes down earlier you will want to go to bed earlier. (Assuming you’re not too much exposed to blue light in the evening.) DST has been scientifically proven to interfere with people’s sleep cycle and consequently also their mental health.
Good. I don’t need light in the evening, I need it in the morning so I can wake up feeling rested. End DST; make standard time permanent.
No make summertime permanent so you have one hour more in the evening… It’s going to be dark in the morning no matter what.
Summertime is terrible, especially in summer. You have one less usable hour in the evening.
During the summer you cannot really go outside until the sun goes down. It’s simply too hot in direct sunlight. Summer evenings are nice, after the sun goes down and the world starts to cool down a little. By moving the clock forwards we have an hour less of usable outdoor-time. It also means you have less time for things to cool down before going to sleep.
DST makes it so you have to go bed too early, being unable to enjoy the evening, and when you go to bed it’s too hot to sleep, but you have to because you have to get up at a ridiculous time the next morning.
Instead of DST we should introduce MST (Moonlight Saving TIme) and move the clock an hour backwards in summer. Then we can actually enjoy our summer evenings and go to bed once things have cooled down a little more. The earlier sunrise doesn’t matter since there is such a thing as blackout curtains.
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Get up one hour earlier, and voila, one extra hour of daylight. No need to impose the clock change to everybody.
You are literally doing that with the archaic “get up earlier” mentality. 99% of people will be awake at 5-6pm to take advantage of an extra hour of light.
Or, you know, wake up at the same literal time, no matter what the clock says. Listen to your circadian rhythms, not some number on the wall. The time shift doesn’t magically give people an extra hour. That’s all marketing. DST stands for Daylight Stealing Time, as far as I’m concerned.
Disclaimer: I’m a night owl; I could care less for waking up early.
That’s nice for people who don’t need to be out of bed until 6ish in the morning. See how much you might enjoy it when you need to be up a 4:30am every day. The last damn thing I need is the sun being up until 10pm and a bunch of clowns whoopin’ and hollerin’ until 11pm because DST.
Fuck that, use coffee like everyone else. Sun after work is literally the only time I see sun in the winter.
Fuck that, y’all are addicted to caffeine and normalising it to the point where not being a coffee craving zombie in the morning is apparently a weird thing.
Idk what your job is but do you not have any windows anywhere? Because that’s how you get burnout along with coffee addiction.
Fuck you morning people and normalizing waking up early in the morning to the point where sleeping until we’re rested is lazy and staying up “late” is irresponsible. We adapted to your schedule using the aids we have available and now you shame us as addicts for doing what we had to do to accommodate your morning hegemony. I say, how dare you sir! /Half-joking
Bro I’m not even a morning person. And it’s because of that I need daylight in the morning to be able to get out of bed without being like Garfield on a Monday. I hate waking up in the morning as much as you do, but I hate it a bit less if the daylight is there too.
Daylight smart bulbs, fading on in the bedroom at summertime schedules, year round. Game changer.
I need this
Oh I’ve got a window alright. It is set up perfectly right so that on the day after ST takes over I can see the sun set 6 minutes before I get off work. Sun’s down, guess I can go outside now!
That is absolutely devilish. I have to get to work so I’ll wake up whenever to get there. But all outdoors evening activities are, at best, a complete joke 5 months of the year because of fucking ST. Wanna take a quick jog around the neighborhood? Bad news bitch, it’s pitch black outside. Here’s to hoping I don’t get run over by a fucking bus.
“Sun rises after work starts” is a setup for caffeine addiction, but “sun sets before work ends” is a setup for crippling alcoholism. Literally nothing to look forward to all day long, five months a year. I will not take any shit from so-called morning people about this, there is one objective truth here and it’s that standard business hours being the worldwide standard that they are, ST the absolute fucking worst for office workers.
9 to 5 jobs during winter are hell with or without DST. Blame capitalism for that.
Cop-out answer. Ending capitalism and ending ST are not the same fight. I’m not confident I’ll see the former happen in my lifetime, but the latter is a distinct possibility (though the pro-ST “I hate to see the sun in my free time” people have a slight edge where I live). Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
Also I’m not even sure how ending capitalism is actually relevant. My skillset is office stuff, and until further notice humans still need to collaborate to get things done and therefore have a concept of “business hours” (though those don’t have to be 8-6).
I see the “8 hours of work is too many” angle, but that problem is mostly orthogonal to capitalism. Capitalist societies can (and have) changed the standard number of working hours. Communist societies are not exempt from the concept of mandatory labor either (quite the contrary for all historical examples!). If you’re looking for an economic model where everyone is free to work whenever they damn well please, I’m afraid you’ll have to bring the replicator thingies from Star Trek into existence first.
I have more issues with having to wake up in the dark than going home in the dark. And after all it’s just one hour. What are you going to do with 1 hour of daylight after work besides being stuck in traffic for most of that time? Unless you live close to your job of course…
Why does my boss get virtually all of my daylight for half a year? Why don’t I get some daylight for my own use between work time and bedtime?
because capitalism
There is this CBC article, about a guy cutting DST out of his life.
Where do you live within your timezone?
I think your sentiment comes from people living on the western side of their time zone, where sunrise and sunset is an hour later than on the eastern end. On the western edge of the timezone (Detroit, for example, on the west end of the Eastern timezone), sunrise in winter could be as late as 9AM.
On the eastern end of a timezone, sunset can be as early as 3:45PM. As early as you want your sunlight, I think we can agree that a sunset before 4PM is ridiculously absurd.
If you are, indeed, on the western edge of the timezone as I think, we could adopt DST, and move you to the next zone to the west, which would put you on the same time as standard time in your current zone. You win, we win, everyone wins.
Alternatively, we could adopt Standard Time, and move people on the eastern edge to the next time zone to the east, which would put them on the same time zone as DST in their current time zone. Again, you win, we win, everyone wins.
Are you on the western edge of your timezone, or at least in the western half?
Plus if standard time becomes normal year round sunrise in places like NYC would be 4:30 (with first light at 3 AM). Bonkers early
So is living in a city where no one ever sleeps. /s
Exactly. New York would probably elect to stay permanently on UTC-4 (EDT/Atlantic Standard Time), and never switch to UTC-5 (EST) like they are now. Michigan would probably choose UTC-5 permanently, and never switch to UTC-4, like they currently do in the summer.
Both states are in the same time zone. They probably shouldn’t be when we go to permanent time.
Not having sunrise unill 8:15 in winter is nightmarish. Its also much easier to make your room dark in mid summer than stimulate sunrise in mid winter.
Its easier to illuminate a bedroom in the morning than the great outdoors in a ridiculously early evening.
Just go outside earlier. We should change jobs and work hours not cause half of everyone sleep deprivation. We can all can win, but its not by using DST year round.
Let’s stop using the terms “DST” and “standard time”. They really confuse the issue. The contiguous US uses UTC-4 (EDT) , UTC-5 (EST/CDT) UTC-6 (CST/MDT), UTC-7 (MST/PDT) and UTC-8 (PST) time zones. We aren’t all going to be using the same UTC offset for permanent time. We are all going to be adopting the UTC offset that makes sense for our region.
New England and Michigan are currently in the same time zone, which switches between UTC-4 and UTC-5. Year-round UTC-5 puts dawn before 4am in New York City during the summer. New England should absolutely not be on UTC-5 in the summer. They should be on UTC-4. On permanent UTC-4, New York dawns will always be between 5 and 8 AM.
Year-round UTC-4 puts dawn at 9am in Detroit during the winter. Detroit should absolutely not be in UTC-4 in the winter. On permanent UTC-5, Detroit dawns will always be between 5 and 8 AM.
New York should be on permanent UTC-4. Detroit should be on permanent UTC-5.
Side benefit: mid-day is once again at 12:00, instead of being at 13:00 DST. Not an issue for some, but it’s annoying for me to know that the sun’s local apex is an hour later than it should be.
It is 12:00 only in the middle of the time zone. Mid-day is now approximately 11:30AM on the eastern end of the timezone.
Fair, I had forgotten about that!
Local noon is only solar noon in a thin strip for any given time zone, if it ever is.
I’m with you. I’ve been having a harder time getting up. Looking forward to having the sun at 7 o’clock latest, get me up, because I got shit to do. I can stay awake no problem.
Also, if the sun goes down earlier you will want to go to bed earlier. (Assuming you’re not too much exposed to blue light in the evening.) DST has been scientifically proven to interfere with people’s sleep cycle and consequently also their mental health.