cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/6763330
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/6763328
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/6137607
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The great misunderstanding of hard left leaning western folks is that neither Russia nor China are socialist or communist.
Just like their hard right leaning counterparts they’re stuck in a mindset from the first half of the past century.
Pro politolog here
I think I’m confused. I haven’t seen any left leaning people support Russia or China. It’s right leaning people that support them. What am I missing? Also I’ve never seen any left leaning people say Russia and China are actually socialist or communist since the 80s or 90s. I’ve seen right leaning people claim that lefties believe that but never any examples in real life.
The most support for China is basic materialist analysis: they’ve heavily invested in housing, high speed rail, electric car infrastructure, and green energy. Coincidentally: all rather related.
But that is generally the support associated with China: a materialist analysis, usually, if not always, regarding infrastructure.
Left and right is not a defined group, it’s a name and any group can pretend/think they belong to it.
Depends which hard left, I know hard/far left people who hate them
Supporters of autocratic state capitalist regimes like China and Russia also aren’t left-leaning.
Not truly sctosmen either.
What part of “authoritarian state capitalism” is left wing to you?
I don’t know. I’m not a fucking tankie. They are masters at cognitive dissonance.
If they’re definitionally wrong, why call “no true Scotsman”?
To feel smart. Funnily enough, socialism really has it pretty hard trying to get off the ground. The US coups another nation every five years to install some corrupt dictator that’s more than willing to sell out his nation to US interests in exhchange for power. So being hunted down and utterly corrupted by the worlds biggest terrorist nation, calling socialism “never truly tried” is kiiiiiiiiiind of correct. There is a lot of social policies in Europe and those worl pretty well, though US interests and their bootlickers erode those, too.
They are, they’re just ignorant
I’m not happy with this development, but I’m slightly amused by the irony being that lemmy.ml is pro-china and has been moderated as such.
How is lemmy.ml pro china?
ML stands for Marxist leninist, which means they love authoritarian regimes that don’t like the US. The number of them that unironically stan Stalin is baffling.
.ml is the top level domain for Mali, it doesn’t have anything to do with Marxist-Leninism by itself. They may have chosen it as a tongue in cheek reference, but it is also a cheaper alternative to other more popular tlds like .com.
Right. And TV means Tuvalu but it actually means television far more often than Tuvalu when it’s used in a domain name.
how many websites have you seen use it based on its meaning of marxist leninist versus how many have used tv for television?
lemmy and lemmygrad, can you name others?
I hate them for ccp/russia propaganda but this is straight up mental bubble made up by some edgelord with no rational argument.
Just because you want it to be so, doesn’t make it.
Here is the rest of the story: the people who chose the subdomain chose .ml because they want it to mean marx-lenin… that’s why it means that for them.
Generally you are right. In this specific instance it was chosen for the fascism.
Okay, but. Are they Marxist-Leninist? Pro-China? Socialists? Anti-capitalists? Looks like: yes. Was the whole thing founded on the grounds of free, shared things and anti-corporate thinking? Also yes. Do we absolutely know for sure that the ML domain was chosen because of this? No, because the fucking register of the domain himself said it was chosen because it was free.
It was simply just free. People and their “knowledge” about topics they don’t know anything about…
https://lemmy.ml/comment/58293
Dessalines is the owner of the domain, one of the owners of the ML instance and one of the full-time devs of the Lemmy code.
I think an overwhelming number of people simply chose that instance becuase it was the instance, made by the devs themselves. At least it was the case for me.
.ml domain names used to be free (together with .ga I think it was) through freenom so it might just be that they snagged themselves a free domain that just happened to be ml.
Not saying you couldn’t be right but not everything is quite as well thought out as it first seems.
I was curious what lemmy.ml has to say about this but it seems the linked post was deleted in the meantime 🤡
It’s my fault. I signed up for it before I realized it was a pro China instance and the other day I said I’m not a Communist.
I feel like I might have legitimately helped as well by mocking them incessantly for being campists and not socialists
Guess they’re not tankies then.
Not tankie enough*
This is hilarious to me. I haven’t really had much opportunity to interact with them before so just today I got into a discussion about how Americans weren’t the most propagandized people in the world because N Korea exists. Apparently NK is a pretty cool place and I just refuse to believe it bc I’m a propagandized American (oh sorry, they say USian for some reason).
Their flair for supporting LatAm anti-american groups has caused them to pick up the LatAm chip on the shoulder that nobody else uses “America” to refer to the whole of North and South America like they do, and instead use it to specifically denote the US.
China*
Please stop saying “mainland China”. It implies Taiwan is part of China, at least to some.
Please stop saying “mainland China”. It implies Taiwan is part of China, at least to some.
It means without Hong Kong.
Hong kong also isn’t part of china
I also read it to mean not HK. Is that not right?
Not HK and Hong Kong.
Also some people in Hainan will refer to the “mainland” as opposed to Hainan island.
It turns out words can be used in multiple ways. It’s not all about Taiwan.
The official name of Taiwan’s government is Republic of China, and it’s the continuation of the government that controlled all of China before Mao’s uprising.
So I’m not sure your argument makes sense. They claim to be the legitimate Chinese government in their own name.
They claim to be independent, the name is something given to them by (you guessed it) China.
They claim to be independent
They actually don’t.
Edit: People downvoting this have absolutely no clue at all about Taiwanese politics and don’t even bother googling “Taiwan independence”. If they did, they’d knew that Taiwan never formally declared independence.
And yet there’s a whole wikipedia page saying the opposite?
And yet there’s a whole wikipedia page saying the opposite?
No, not really.
The Taiwan independence movement is a political movement which advocates the formal declaration of an independent and sovereign Taiwanese state, as opposed to Chinese unification or the status quo in Cross-Strait relations.
Currently, Taiwan’s political status is ambiguous.
Former president Lee Teng-hui has stated that he never pursued Taiwanese independence. Lee views Taiwan as already an independent state, and that the call for “Taiwanese independence” could even confuse the international community by implying that Taiwan once viewed itself as part of China. From this perspective, Taiwan is independent even if it remains unable to enter the UN.
Most Taiwanese and political parties of the ROC support the status quo, and recognize that this is de facto independence through sovereign self-rule. Even among those who believe Taiwan is and should remain independent, the threat of war from PRC softens their approach, and they tend to support maintaining the status quo rather than pursuing an ideological path that could result in war with the PRC.
The questions of independence and the island’s relationship to mainland China are complex and inspire very strong emotions among Taiwanese people. There are some who continue to maintain the KMT’s position, which states that the ROC is the sole legitimate government for all of China (of which they consider Taiwan to be a part), and that the aim of the government should be eventual unification of the mainland and Taiwan under the rule of the ROC. Some argue that Taiwan has been, and should continue to be, completely independent from China and should become a Taiwanese state with a distinct name.
On 25 October 2004, in Beijing, the U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell said Taiwan is “not sovereign,” provoking strong comments from both the Pan-Green and Pan-Blue coalitions – but for very different reasons. From the DPP’s side, President Chen declared that “Taiwan is definitely a sovereign, independent country, a great country that absolutely does not belong to the People’s Republic of China”. The TSU (Taiwan Solidarity Union) criticized Powell, and questioned why the US sold weapons to Taiwan if it were not a sovereign state. From the KMT, then Chairman Ma Ying-jeou announced, “the Republic of China has been a sovereign state ever since it was formed [in 1912].”
Show me where. Taiwan claims to BE China, not part of China. That’s a big difference.
Also, they don’t need to claim independence since Taiwan has never been part of PRC. That would make as much sense as France never claims independence from the USA.
Show me where.
Are you seriously not able to read the replies with the “Currently, Taiwan’s political status is ambiguous” line? WTF?
