Thank you for trying to respect Ivy. But I hope you won’t mind if I think what you’re saying is ironic. See, you’re treating Ivy like a human in order to protect it from the consequences of your realism.
Sharks can’t talk. That’s a fact most people can agree is objective. But if you treat sharks as a social construct and consider Ivy a shark, then suddenly there’s a talking shark! It’s Ivy!
That’s what antirealists call magic. I just took responsibility over My beliefs about reality, and changed them in a way that brought talking sharks into the world. I cast a spell of prestidigitation to create a talking shark. And it’s a simple parlor trick, but I hope it demonstrates the function of antirealist magick nearly.
Now, if Ivy is a talking shark who can’t breathe water, can you see how it’s possible to respect Ivy’s identity and treat its dysphoria without abusing it?
No irony was meant. Sorry it that might’ve come across as such. I’m a very cynical person. Didn’t mean any disrespect. I would TRY my best to treat it however it wants to be treated. But lacking information, i could only approximate very little. I would maybe have trouble wrapping my head around that fact and try to see if it would require “help” or if everything is fine as it is. Or maybe misanthropy went weird or…
But if you just changed your belief that sharks can talk. It’s also no shark anymore, is it? We have language and words to convey certain things and meanings. If you just change it, what use does it have?
A speaking shark is no shark, a human being sharky isn’t a human. So do you more see something NEW? Like sharkman? humark? A speaking shark that can travel on land and use the internet to meet humans like you. But neither shark nor human.
Why is it important to you to call this “antirealist magick” instead of e.g. “highly vivid fantasy born by the desire to treat everyone as they see themselves, no matter what”? It’s an admirable treat, don’t get me wrong. Maybe I’m just nitpicky on labels, but “antirealist” sounds dumb (no offense meant) in a world where objective reality needs to exist or else this conversation wouldn’t exist.
Anyhow, you seem like a very lovely colorful being, so i just repeat myself: no offense meant, just call it scientific curiosity to everything not “normal” and boring.
If we didn’t have a concept of sharks, Ivy wouldn’t have any words to describe what it feels and how it wants to be seen, and it would be harder for Me to affirm its identity by petting it on the dorsal fin and complimenting its teeth.
Plus, studies show our self-esteem is more strongly impacted by the values of the culture we’re raised in than our own values. Ivy’s self-esteem is dependent on being a shark, so we have limited room to redefine the entire concept of sharks. Every departure we make from Ivy’s cultural idea of sharkness requires stronger magic to fulfill without causing dysphoria.
And calling it magic is useful for precisely this present situation: Talking about techniques to strengthen the magic. In fact, calling it making appeals to our cultural ideas of magic and makes the magic stronger. Words like delusion or fantasy have a negative connotation and can weaken the magic or have harmful side effect. What we’re doing here is using our culture as the raw materials to engineer new social constructs to serve our needs. We don’t have unlimited power, this is a delicate process. There are plenty of conflicting needs. But with knowledge and skill, we can build the ideas to make everyone happy.
Oh I wouldn’t say “fantasy” is negatively connotated. “Delusion”, unless used in a medical diagnosis, surely is, yes.
Apologies btw for using that term on you. I tend to come across harsher than I often intend to :)
What we’re doing here is using our culture as the raw materials to engineer new social constructs to serve our needs[…]
How eloquently put. Makes total sense now. Definitely nothing I regularly come across, but you explained it very well. Thanks for that insight. If everyone is happy and no harm is done, no harm is done :)
Circling back to the initial use of the word “sanity”, you came across as being high as a kite, but you’re just…differently wired. Nothing insane here.
I wish you guys the best!
Thanks! I do identify as insane, though, it’s easier that way. Insanity isn’t in the DSM because it’s not a scientific construct. It’s a political construct. And politically, I’m quite mad.
There are a lot of people online who start from the assumption I’m sane, and conclude I’m a troll because of it. I find it much easier to have a meaningful conversation with people who understand that I’m wacko.
Fun fact: My genetic dad is a wizard just like Me, but he didn’t raise Me! In fact, he barely talks about his magic with his kids at all. We both came to magic on our own without any parental input. I guess magic just runs in our family.
“Identify as insane”…is a sentence i gotta re-use :-)
Well, what actually is “politically mad” though. Everything not in the usual two corners fighting “the others”?
lol, i actually started this conversation on the assumption that you are either a troll or totally gone. And yup, it’s indeed easier if the other one already knows you’re insane in the mainframe. Saves a lot of time :-)
Interesting fun fact. But hey, have you ever tried putting your powers of imagination into art? like creating some?
I’ve become politically radicalised beyond the point of believing in the same reality as most everyone else. I can choose to believe in the white state’s reality, I’m just politically opposed to it. That’s political insanity. They used to hit trans people and women who wanted independence with the same accusations.
Yeah I’ve made art. I’ve done short stories, video game mods, roleplaying games, and I’m currently learning drums. I usually publish My art under a pseudonym. Happy to share a story from the game of Draw Steel I’m playing in, though.
Thank you for trying to respect Ivy. But I hope you won’t mind if I think what you’re saying is ironic. See, you’re treating Ivy like a human in order to protect it from the consequences of your realism.
Sharks can’t talk. That’s a fact most people can agree is objective. But if you treat sharks as a social construct and consider Ivy a shark, then suddenly there’s a talking shark! It’s Ivy!
That’s what antirealists call magic. I just took responsibility over My beliefs about reality, and changed them in a way that brought talking sharks into the world. I cast a spell of prestidigitation to create a talking shark. And it’s a simple parlor trick, but I hope it demonstrates the function of antirealist magick nearly.
Now, if Ivy is a talking shark who can’t breathe water, can you see how it’s possible to respect Ivy’s identity and treat its dysphoria without abusing it?
No irony was meant. Sorry it that might’ve come across as such. I’m a very cynical person. Didn’t mean any disrespect. I would TRY my best to treat it however it wants to be treated. But lacking information, i could only approximate very little. I would maybe have trouble wrapping my head around that fact and try to see if it would require “help” or if everything is fine as it is. Or maybe misanthropy went weird or…
But if you just changed your belief that sharks can talk. It’s also no shark anymore, is it? We have language and words to convey certain things and meanings. If you just change it, what use does it have? A speaking shark is no shark, a human being sharky isn’t a human. So do you more see something NEW? Like sharkman? humark? A speaking shark that can travel on land and use the internet to meet humans like you. But neither shark nor human.
Why is it important to you to call this “antirealist magick” instead of e.g. “highly vivid fantasy born by the desire to treat everyone as they see themselves, no matter what”? It’s an admirable treat, don’t get me wrong. Maybe I’m just nitpicky on labels, but “antirealist” sounds dumb (no offense meant) in a world where objective reality needs to exist or else this conversation wouldn’t exist.
Anyhow, you seem like a very lovely colorful being, so i just repeat myself: no offense meant, just call it scientific curiosity to everything not “normal” and boring.
If we didn’t have a concept of sharks, Ivy wouldn’t have any words to describe what it feels and how it wants to be seen, and it would be harder for Me to affirm its identity by petting it on the dorsal fin and complimenting its teeth.
Plus, studies show our self-esteem is more strongly impacted by the values of the culture we’re raised in than our own values. Ivy’s self-esteem is dependent on being a shark, so we have limited room to redefine the entire concept of sharks. Every departure we make from Ivy’s cultural idea of sharkness requires stronger magic to fulfill without causing dysphoria.
And calling it magic is useful for precisely this present situation: Talking about techniques to strengthen the magic. In fact, calling it making appeals to our cultural ideas of magic and makes the magic stronger. Words like delusion or fantasy have a negative connotation and can weaken the magic or have harmful side effect. What we’re doing here is using our culture as the raw materials to engineer new social constructs to serve our needs. We don’t have unlimited power, this is a delicate process. There are plenty of conflicting needs. But with knowledge and skill, we can build the ideas to make everyone happy.
Oh I wouldn’t say “fantasy” is negatively connotated. “Delusion”, unless used in a medical diagnosis, surely is, yes. Apologies btw for using that term on you. I tend to come across harsher than I often intend to :)
How eloquently put. Makes total sense now. Definitely nothing I regularly come across, but you explained it very well. Thanks for that insight. If everyone is happy and no harm is done, no harm is done :) Circling back to the initial use of the word “sanity”, you came across as being high as a kite, but you’re just…differently wired. Nothing insane here. I wish you guys the best!
Thanks! I do identify as insane, though, it’s easier that way. Insanity isn’t in the DSM because it’s not a scientific construct. It’s a political construct. And politically, I’m quite mad.
There are a lot of people online who start from the assumption I’m sane, and conclude I’m a troll because of it. I find it much easier to have a meaningful conversation with people who understand that I’m wacko.
Fun fact: My genetic dad is a wizard just like Me, but he didn’t raise Me! In fact, he barely talks about his magic with his kids at all. We both came to magic on our own without any parental input. I guess magic just runs in our family.
“Identify as insane”…is a sentence i gotta re-use :-) Well, what actually is “politically mad” though. Everything not in the usual two corners fighting “the others”?
lol, i actually started this conversation on the assumption that you are either a troll or totally gone. And yup, it’s indeed easier if the other one already knows you’re insane in the mainframe. Saves a lot of time :-)
Interesting fun fact. But hey, have you ever tried putting your powers of imagination into art? like creating some?
I’ve become politically radicalised beyond the point of believing in the same reality as most everyone else. I can choose to believe in the white state’s reality, I’m just politically opposed to it. That’s political insanity. They used to hit trans people and women who wanted independence with the same accusations.
Yeah I’ve made art. I’ve done short stories, video game mods, roleplaying games, and I’m currently learning drums. I usually publish My art under a pseudonym. Happy to share a story from the game of Draw Steel I’m playing in, though.