“Would you raise your kid to be a greedy psychopath or would you teach them that all people have value”
I am not currently teaching my children explicit Marxist theory. Mainly because they are 5 and 3. However, my partner and I focus a lot on fostering empathy in our children. We often talk about workers (as in people who make things, not simply people who have invented something) and how all people are in community with one another in some way. Its kinda cool having a small kid say stuff like “I think the worker had the wrong string for this toy.” or “The worker put the best blueberries in this one.” On a recent trip to a major metropolitan our 5-year-old noticed a few tents under a bridge and commented on how fun it’d be to camp in a city. We talked about what being unhoused means and how we think everyone should have a home no matter what. I think the most important part of our conversation was talking about how my partner and I couldn’t have gotten a home without the support of others, like our parents, their parents, the builders, our friends, etc. They don’t have a firm grasp on what exactly money is, so I’m not sure they would have understood how wages impact one’s ability to afford a home. We do make a conscious distinction between “affording” something and “deserving” something, as those are often conflated in capitalist thought.
Anyway, this is all to say that we are deliberately laying the groundwork for more serious discussions in the future and actively trying to elevate their class consciousness. All of that comes before theory.
from what i hear, you seem like actually amazing parents! you’re doing god’s work ^^
Thank you for sharing. My kid is a bit younger so I’ve been thinking a lot about how to approach this. I’ve come to similar solutions (empathy and simplified class consciousness to start with) and your specific examplea are very helpful.
I think rather than directly teaching, it’s better to be the kind of parent that the kid genuinely loves and respect and somewhat wants to be like. If someone is Marxist but a terrible parent the kid might sour on it for example.
I think you’ve put it perfectly. I believe people need to worry about being good parents first, regardless of what expectations they have for their kids politically.
I think you need both, like you said, if you are not kind and patient with them they may rebel against you and what you tell them, but at the same time they would benefit from a solid Theoretical Foundation, make fewer unnecessary mistake, spend less time re-inventing the wheel.
It is kind of like the Dialectic between Theory and Practice, where as you need Practice to develop correct Theory, you need correct Theory to engage in higher quality Practice, which can also enable the development of more advanced Theory, leading to more advanced Practice, point is they need to be put together, and I think raising a child correctly is the same way, they need love and support, but also to learn the important things that school is setup to teach the opposite of.
I think most parents try to impart their beliefs/values onto their children. Whether it succeeds is a whole other question, since the beliefs can be same/similar to the existing superstructure or challenging it. I would expect when they are same/similar, it’s relatively easy to reproduce it in new generations, unless the base for them, the material conditions, are in too much contradiction with the superstructure. And when the beliefs/values are challenging the existing superstructure, much harder to make it stick into adulthood, unless, again, material conditions make a significant difference. There’s only so much you can do on your own.
Yep. And everyone makes mistakes. I’m extremely blessed in that my now-adult child told me to stop apologizing for various things because, “you did the best you could with the tools you had at the time.” That broke me, and I wept profusely. It’s the message I shared with a primary caregiver who yet finds confronting their own demons too scary and painful, so our relationship isn’t healed; but my child’s and my relationship is healing from typical teenage angst, rage, and the additional angst and rage from my own messups. We celebrate victories where we can.
I’ve told my own parents that, almost word for word, especially with my mom, who was thrown out of a moving car by one of her parents in childhood, and it’s stuff like that that reminds me, for all the pain I had in my own childhood, they did an amazing job at not being like their own parents, and doing what little they know how to do to deal with a broken child carrying a horrible trauma nobody at the time knew about, the ways Capitalism, and the tools they use against us, such as religion under Capitalism, torture, kill and under-develop us (and SA, but that is a difficult topic for me) are many in variation and intensity.
I’m really glad for the good for you and sorry for the bad. The SA stuff is difficult for me, too. The parent I mentioned still rages at their dead abusers, while not being able to acknowledge they regularly left me with their abusers for weeks at a time and got exasperated that I’d call at bedtime, in inconsolable tears, begging to come home. Decades later, I still can’t recall what came after; and I don’t really need to recall, anymore. I already know it was nothing good. But I can forgive that parent that because what that does to a child in their earliest years, until they married and moved out of the house, especially after losing a parent they adored to a sudden death – that ain’t nothin good, either, and psychotherapy back then was not only stigmatized, but more out of reach for the dirt poor, as well. And that’s why parents did that, especially when there weren’t opportunities for women “past their prime,” with four or five hungry mouths to feed. Babies’ mouths.
I’m fortunate enough to have therapy covered by medicaid/medicare (I have both, I forget which one covers it), but on that topic I need to cut the conversation here, I feel uncomfortably close to bringing up something that I’m only prepared to bring up during therapy, where I can use EMDR to process what comes up, thank you for sharing, but also let’s leave it here.
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to trigger anything. I wish you the best.
I’d think of it a bit like, teaching mathematics, so, provide examples, walk them through them, basically show them how to think in a Dialectical and Historical Materialist way, and encourage them to practice using it to better understand reality, and maybe throw in bits about history, philosophy, political economy ETC. You could give them some books to read (at their level) and then provide encouragement, maybe they get a special treat if they can demonstrate they understand the books content, and if you talk about such regularly at, you might encourage them to want to know more on their own so they can discus at a higher level with you, or even to show off what they’ve learned or something, what ever keeps them learning.
Edit: “regularly at home”
IDK why we think kids have that much of a choice in who they become. if you dont put resources into a child to make them great they probably wont be great. the greatest people alive often start in their childhood. im not saying this in a hateful way. theres nothing as demoralizing as seeing how much easier life is for people with loving, resourceful parents while you were raised by bums who used you as an emotional punching bag and now have all the issues coming from that.
the answer is a resounding YES. the most influential and effective socialists today come from good living situation + marxist teachings. how do we expect to have a revolutionary future generation without teaching them?
Why wouldn’t I teach my child about things I think are important? Especially since the schools in our country teach lies about most things related to history, economics, and communism in general? Are you telling me not to protect my child against the influence of the capitalist state and just be ok if they get pulled into the propaganda? Nah, I’ma teach them about all that bullshit. I’m going to expend every resource available to teach them empathy, kindness, and to show them the lies of the state. If nothing else they will be educated in whatever decisions they make.
Your environment is not neutral, if you live in a Capitalist country, they will be dragged along the Liberal path without even being aware of it, in order to actually “have a choice” they’d need to be taught Communism (Marxism Leninism specifically because it is scientific, Communism is not a religion), or they would even have the ability to “choose” in the first place.
Additionally, this question is a bit like “should I teach my kid about the deadly snakes hiding under that rock over there or should I let them find out for themselves?” This stuff isn’t like choosing what color you want your car, there are objectively correct and incorrect answers, and the consequences are deadly serious.
Edit: “wouldn’t even have the ability”
How can they make an informed decision about their political path if you don’t teach them and let their only exposure to it be via red scare propaganda?
Absolutely I would. The world is not impartial, particularly the imperial core. Why would I restrict myself in some attempt to play by rules that nobody else will?
I don’t have kids, but I really wish I had gotten the lowdown on marxism / communism so much earlier
I did and I wish it, as well. What’s done is done, we’re not looking back because we’re not going that direction.
I would teach them the full truth about history, politics, and economics.
If I raised them right then that alone will make them communists.
i dont have kids, nor do i plan on having them. I am very worried that i would not be suited to raise or care for the in a sufficient manner, since i have various mental conditions which make it exceedingly difficult for me to take care of other living beings. If i ever actually manage to be stable enough to have children, i would very much try to do what another person on this thread does (fishlake) and try to foster empathy for the workers.
In a very distant future, i would like to have them, but for now, it is wholly out of the question for me.
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My parents are extremely right wing/liberal fascist but never went out of their way to force those beliefs onto me or indoctrinate me into them when I was growing up, nor my siblings, and we ended up socialists/communists despite our parents hating communism. I think there’s no need to brainwash your children in order for them to formulate a worldview, and I would assume the same for my children, as their class interests will decide their politics, not their parents.
”brainwashing” is not a real thing and its a cold war era term specifically used against us. i think that children deserve to be protected from hateful beliefs. unfortunately its wishful thinking to assume that working class will have politics in their best interests. many white supremacists come from centrist/apolitical background, fall on hard times, have no actual worldview to analyze their situation and get swept up by those who have right wing beliefs.
Yes it is, we call it conditioning, and if I understand correctly, having had some early childhood psych classes in college, from 0-7, a child spends a lot of time in theta brainwave activity, so that conditioning/brainwashing is extremely difficult to break. It doesn’t mean it can’t be broken, it takes time, discipline and practice. Meditation and even prayer can induce that brainwave, and help break the conditioning.
This is scientific, even the prayer part, unless science has changed since I last read up on it, and it may have. Something something enough to know it all or whatevs.
As Marxists, we sure get dogmatic about our theory sometimes. As scientific theory updates, so should our political theory, to more closely align with scientific data. And I get it because I’m guilty, too. No one can keep up with everything, alone.
It’s kind of like how everyone upvotes psych stuff framed in a more palatable way, but as soon as terms are used that aren’t cuddly or “acceptable,” for other reasons, people start taking issue. And that’s fine cause I do that, too.
I know what you mean when you say “brainwashing”, but I don’t think teaching children foundational Marxist ideas is at all brainwashing. In my experience as a parent and an early childhood/elementary educator, children are not naturally selfish nor are they naturally empathetic. This isn’t to say that a child’s mind is entirely tabula rasa. Children are in general much more welcoming and accepting of others. Our capitalist society encourages kids to be kind and to show each other respect. However, if a child’s material conditions and societal circumstances also encourage things like selfishness, competition, obedience — moreover those behaviors that perpetuate capitalist attitudes and are contradictory to values like empathy and kindness — then they will of course develop these more anti-society ways of thinking.
I believe it is important for kids to be shown the contradictions between what they are taught is important in early childhood (fairness, kindness, empathy, cooperation, etc) and what they are taught throughout the rest of their childhood/adolescence (what I mean is things like the exhalation of certain historical figures or lies about socialist movements, things like that).
My main point was that I would not go out of the way to sit them down and teach them this sort of thing. But if ones children come and ask on their own accord due to their own interest, then sure, you can share your perspective and why you believe it. Ultimately, politics that you inherit due to whatever your parents tell you are no better than religious beliefs you hold because of your family. If they come to the conclusion that Marxism is the most sensible method after having been given the tools and opportunity to observe their society with clear eyes and their own judgement, this makes for a much stronger conviction. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of communists ended up with children who had no interest in it or became outright hostile to it in later life. We need to respect that they are separate people from us and that they like anyone else must learn these things for themselves if they’re to really understand it.
I feel like we all agree here. You can only teach your children so many “truths” about something they haven’t had any real experience with. Them asking and you teaching something is a push and pull and is reliant on their natural curiosity. Fostering that is very important.
That’s understandable, no one wants to feel lectured to or like they were indoctrinated earlier in life. That’s actually a big concern my partner and I have. That’s why we don’t explicitly teach them Marxist theory. I’m not going to explain to my 5-year-old what dialects are. That’s a discussion for a late teen or early adult. But I do help them develop a sense for dialectical thinking through example. That is not indoctrination, dialectics are a critical thinking skill that has utility outside of politics. Perhaps I’m being imprecise when I talk about what I think kids should be taught in terms of Marxist ideas. You are absolutely that there are examples of children of prominent communists who turned into reactionaries, I’m thinking of Stalin’s daughter who defected to the US. However, I will counter that with the entire country of China, where children (I believe typically stating in early teen years) are explicitly taught Marxist philosophy, though that is probably grossly oversimplifying their curriculum, which I know way too little about.
