A standard generous reaction time is part of your standard stopping distance. Did you not learn this as part of learning to drive?
Yes, you should be watching for traffic lights changing as you drive.
I see I shouldn’t be asking if you learnt this, because you obviously never venture out from underneath your bridge except to eat passersby and be a pillock on the internet.
No amount of drivers ed and giving people tickets will stop people from running fresh reds, even accidentally. The only things that help with the consequences is making people understand this, raising intersections, and longer all red periods.
No-one runs a red accidentally except through inattention. Whichever it is, it’s an attitude incompatible with driving. Those people need to be removed from behind the wheel.
Anyone should be able to stop their vehicle within 2 seconds. For an emergency, that is generous. For a traffic light, that is quick - but it is easily achievable for exactly the same reason. And, because you can see the green light, you are able to anticipate it changing, and so react quicker than you would to an unanticipated event like an emergency, so it is easier still.
Amber light timings in my country are, I believe, 3 seconds universally.
I think we’re mostly in agreement about a lot of this stuff. A lot of drivers here don’t drive defensively, and that is a problem. Clearly it’s a problem everywhere and it’s much more reasonable for drivers to expect red light runs especially on fresh reds than to expect every driver to never run a red light ever, especially at high speeds when checking to see if someone is going to run the very much non-fresh red on the conflicting direction.
My main point is that “red light running” is purely a distinction based on the state of the LEDs. It’s dishonest to make a meaningful distinction between someone entering an intersection on a yellow vs a very fresh red. Especially compared to someone on their phone who blows into a full intersection of cars on a non-fresh red which is what’s actually dangerous (because of the people there with right of way).
I live in Phoenix which is apparently the red light running Capitol of the country. It’s gotten a lot better now that Phoenix and other cities have extended their yellow light timings and red only periods. As it turns out not all red light runs are equal.
If you slam on the brakes at high speeds on a modern car, you will stop in much less than 2 seconds. In practice you need some time to react as well, but the time to react to an anticipated event is short and should be about a quarter of a second.
The “state of the LEDs” that you keep referring to is the signal that tells other drivers they may proceed. Stop minimising it.
My point is that blindly teaching drivers about traffic rules makes them extremely unprepared for the reality of driving. I’ve run red lights accidentally many times. It happens. I’ve precented collisions by LOOKING AT THE ROAD and knowing when a driver is going to run a yellow or red when I’m turning left/stealing the intersection. You’re treating every red light run the same. It’s like saying speeding on the freeway by 15mph is just as dangerous as speeding by 15mph on surface streets. The latter is MUCH more dangerous by like, at least two factors of 10.
If you accidentally ran reds many times, you need to stop driving right now before you cause a serious injury or death. I’m not exaggerating. You’ve admitted you’re unfit to drive.
If you can’t monitor the road ahead and spot when a light changes your eyes or attention are not sufficient to the task. Maybe you can be retrained, but it’s important you do that rather than continue as you are until forced to stop due to a catastrophe.
I’m not saying this as a rebuke. I just think no-one should be driving if they can’t reliably stop for red lights.
I reliably stop at red lights. I’ve either run lights within the first second of it turning red or intentionally after checking that it’s safe. Maybe 5 times total.
I’m saying that the thing that you said here is not relevant to what I said. It’s not a problem to the enforcement of amber lights.
Every driver should have an idea of their own stopping distance, regardless of different so-called definitions, so that they can drive at an appropriate distance from the vehicle in front (fat chance of that, given driving standards). If you are 3 seconds away from a light the moment it turns amber and decide not to stop for it, you went through when you were able to stop, and ought to get a ticket. A police car capturing video would be able to determine that objectively. Hence: objective enforcement is possible.
A standard generous reaction time is part of your standard stopping distance. Did you not learn this as part of learning to drive?
Yes, you should be watching for traffic lights changing as you drive.
I see I shouldn’t be asking if you learnt this, because you obviously never venture out from underneath your bridge except to eat passersby and be a pillock on the internet.
No amount of drivers ed and giving people tickets will stop people from running fresh reds, even accidentally. The only things that help with the consequences is making people understand this, raising intersections, and longer all red periods.
No-one runs a red accidentally except through inattention. Whichever it is, it’s an attitude incompatible with driving. Those people need to be removed from behind the wheel.
You really haven’t seen some light timings. Lots of cities make yellow lights really short.
How short?
It depends. Some are 2 or 3 seconds. It’s mainly to get revenue for the police department via red light running tickets.
Anyone should be able to stop their vehicle within 2 seconds. For an emergency, that is generous. For a traffic light, that is quick - but it is easily achievable for exactly the same reason. And, because you can see the green light, you are able to anticipate it changing, and so react quicker than you would to an unanticipated event like an emergency, so it is easier still.
Amber light timings in my country are, I believe, 3 seconds universally.
In the U.S. speed limits are high enough where stopping within 2 seconds (including reaction time) would require slamming on the breaks.
Also yellow lights should not be a static time. See https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kyFLRXSxgPw
I think we’re mostly in agreement about a lot of this stuff. A lot of drivers here don’t drive defensively, and that is a problem. Clearly it’s a problem everywhere and it’s much more reasonable for drivers to expect red light runs especially on fresh reds than to expect every driver to never run a red light ever, especially at high speeds when checking to see if someone is going to run the very much non-fresh red on the conflicting direction.
My main point is that “red light running” is purely a distinction based on the state of the LEDs. It’s dishonest to make a meaningful distinction between someone entering an intersection on a yellow vs a very fresh red. Especially compared to someone on their phone who blows into a full intersection of cars on a non-fresh red which is what’s actually dangerous (because of the people there with right of way).
I live in Phoenix which is apparently the red light running Capitol of the country. It’s gotten a lot better now that Phoenix and other cities have extended their yellow light timings and red only periods. As it turns out not all red light runs are equal.
If you slam on the brakes at high speeds on a modern car, you will stop in much less than 2 seconds. In practice you need some time to react as well, but the time to react to an anticipated event is short and should be about a quarter of a second.
The “state of the LEDs” that you keep referring to is the signal that tells other drivers they may proceed. Stop minimising it.
What country are you from?
Not relevant to this discussion. You can google to determine that such countries exist, if that’s what worries you. Or just not believe me.
My point is that blindly teaching drivers about traffic rules makes them extremely unprepared for the reality of driving. I’ve run red lights accidentally many times. It happens. I’ve precented collisions by LOOKING AT THE ROAD and knowing when a driver is going to run a yellow or red when I’m turning left/stealing the intersection. You’re treating every red light run the same. It’s like saying speeding on the freeway by 15mph is just as dangerous as speeding by 15mph on surface streets. The latter is MUCH more dangerous by like, at least two factors of 10.
If you accidentally ran reds many times, you need to stop driving right now before you cause a serious injury or death. I’m not exaggerating. You’ve admitted you’re unfit to drive.
If you can’t monitor the road ahead and spot when a light changes your eyes or attention are not sufficient to the task. Maybe you can be retrained, but it’s important you do that rather than continue as you are until forced to stop due to a catastrophe.
I’m not saying this as a rebuke. I just think no-one should be driving if they can’t reliably stop for red lights.
I reliably stop at red lights. I’ve either run lights within the first second of it turning red or intentionally after checking that it’s safe. Maybe 5 times total.
People say “stopping distance” with many different definitions all the time. Also it’s different per state.
That is not any kind of problem.
I don’t understand
I’m saying that the thing that you said here is not relevant to what I said. It’s not a problem to the enforcement of amber lights.
Every driver should have an idea of their own stopping distance, regardless of different so-called definitions, so that they can drive at an appropriate distance from the vehicle in front (fat chance of that, given driving standards). If you are 3 seconds away from a light the moment it turns amber and decide not to stop for it, you went through when you were able to stop, and ought to get a ticket. A police car capturing video would be able to determine that objectively. Hence: objective enforcement is possible.