It’s like when I tell someone in my group not to use the r-word then it’s like I personally killed their family with the looks I get. Or not to use the slur for schizophrenic people. Just get this weird “…okay” in a deadpan tone. Sorry I am such a joykill to not tolerate this kind of crap, I know I used to as well but learned that it’s unacceptable but I hoped those close to me would be able to try and change too… shoulder-grab

  • KarlTheMarx [any]@hexbear.net
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    12 hours ago

    If they consider it okay to use in the first place then they’re obviously not going to enjoy someone telling them they’re wrong. Especially due to what it implies about them if you’re right. Nobody wants to be told they’re an insensitive prick/racist.

    Not that we should accept their choice of words, rather we need to be strategic in how we address it, or have enough social capital to make them automatically assume they’re wrong.

  • none [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    1 day ago

    I suggest these short articles:

    Beyond “F*ck You”: An organizer’s approach to confronting hateful language at work

    Beyond F*ck You 2: workplace organizing against oppressive language and behavior

    After a period of waiting for the right moment–excruciating in itself–I found myself clocking out when I overheard S., the worst offender, laughingly yell over at another worker: “Mike, you’re such a fuckingremovedot!” Truth be told, I actually got along pretty well with S.; he was a nice guy, good sense of humor other than the fucked up stuff like that, we joked frequently about how unrealistic the expectations were of us and how obnoxious some of our bosses were. I walked up to him, and asked, “Hey S., can you do me a favor?” “Yeah, man, what’s up?” “Can you cut it out with the gay jokes? I really don’t like hearing that shit.”

    There was a pause. “What, like about you? Because I don’t think I said anything about you–” “Nah, not about me, just in general. I just don’t like hearing that, so I’d really appreciate it if you could knock it off. I gotta run to catch my bus, but if you wanna talk about it more some time, I’d be happy to.” S.’s look of concern and confusion turned to a nod, “OK, man, not a problem. Sorry if I pissed you off or anything.” And that was that.

    The results were quick and effective. With S. removed from the picture, the homophobic banter went from something that happened multiple times per day to a few isolated incidents. When those comments did crop up, I took the exact same attitude, with the same results. One day at break, S. was talking about shopping at a health-food store where his girlfriend works: “I mean, it’s good food, but whenever I’m checking out, I’m like, oh man, I feel like such a… a…” He stopped and looked at me with a sort of deer-in-headlights look on his face. I piped in, “like a fuckin’ hippy?” He cracked up, “Yeah man, like a fucking hippy. Shit, I’m turning into a hippy.” The rest of the day was a series of jokes about what kind of incense we should get him for his birthday.

  • Athena5898 [any]@hexbear.net
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    1 day ago

    This kind of stuff is explained in this, like white fragility and White Tears and Brown Scars. But there are a few reasons.

    1. The person’s identity is built on the idea of them being “not a bigot” and not understanding that’s not how it works and anyone can accidentally be ignorant and do a bad. It messes with their self-image and their paper, then personality.

    2. Intersectionality fail. They think they can do whatever they want because they are part of a marginalized group and fail to understand how oppression actually works.

    3. On point both 2 and 1, they could be part of a specific group in intersectionality where they may have cultivated their identity on their oppression instead of other things. See white women getting upset when called racist towards a Black man.

    4. They know what they are doing and are hoping the system will protect them because they enjoy the privilage.

    • Arcanepotato@crazypeople.online
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      1 day ago

      Maybe it’s covered in point 4, but I think “they don’t think it’s bad because they think intellectual disabilities or schizophrenia make people inherently less worthy of being treated with care and consideration” is another possible reason.

    • EmmiLime [none/use name]@hexbear.netOP
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      1 day ago

      The person’s identity is built on the idea of them being “not a bigot” and not understanding that’s not how it works and anyone can accidentally be ignorant and do a bad. It messes with their self-image and their paper, then personality.

      Oh boy that’s kind of what happened when asking them not to use the slur for schizophrenia. I even mentioned my sister having that to hopefully make it more sense to them and not come off as harsh.

  • kleeon [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 day ago

    The proliferation of “schizo” has been really depressing to watch. I think it replaced “autistic” in a lot of contexts. It’s like they decided to make another group of neurodivergent people a punchline for some fucking reason sadness-abysmal

  • Aradina [They/Them]@lemmy.ml
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    1 day ago

    Standing up against injustice is uncivil don’cha know

    edit: for > against

    probably don’t stand up for injustice

  • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    1 day ago

    It’s a similar problem with asking people to use the correct pronouns. Bigotry against trans people and disabled people are borderline acceptable bigotries among wider society. So when you ask someone to not use slurs or to respect pronouns, you’re asking them to view other people with humanity, and that’s going to be difficult for people who believe they’re expressing borderline acceptable bigotries. I hate it and don’t know what to do about it.

  • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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    1 day ago

    It’s much easier to ask someone not to do something because YOU don’t like it instead of making the argument on behalf of the affected group.

    My approach is to tell someone I would prefer they not say x because I don’t like it. If they then continue to do so they are willingly doing so knowing it will upset me, which marks them out as a person who does not care about their relationship with me.

    Most people that care about their relationship with you will not do something harmful to it and will stop.

    You can make the secondary argument “I don’t like it BECAUSE… (i personally know people i care about who it affects) or (it harms vulnerable people etc)”

    When you make it about THEM and what THEY are doing instead of about YOU and YOUR feelings you get the extremely negative reaction. Instead when you make it about yourself you are giving the other person a choice that they get to make instead of a judgement or appraisal of them that comes off as a cut.

    • none [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      1 day ago

      Not only easier but more correct. The idea its OK to say slurs only when out of earshot of the target group creates a dynamic where “we” can only relax and say “what we really think” when “they” aren’t around. It tends to incentivise cliquish social arrangements based on apparent membership in dominant groups.

      For some people it might be all you can get but oftentimes if given a chance people can rise to improve themselves.

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        1 day ago

        I agree but getting them to stop is the starting point. If they stop saying it around me they’re likely to adapt their language patterns entirely. Habits are like that, if you hang around people who swear a lot and create a culture where swearing a lot has no pushback then everyone ends up swearing. Same situation with slurs. We can get them to stop using them even if they wouldn’t necessarily do so for moral reasons.

        I would prefer they change for moral reasons but I’ll take what I can get and be more tactical about it if i have to.

    • EmmiLime [none/use name]@hexbear.netOP
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      1 day ago

      It’s much easier to ask someone not to do something because YOU don’t like it instead of making the argument on behalf of the affected group.

      I very much try. It’s not great to be called the r-word by family when having difficulties pertaining my autism.

  • goferking (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
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    1 day ago

    They refuse to admit language they use could be construed as hurtful or hateful to others.

    It’s also hard when it’s words that appear normalized by society

  • Soot [any]@hexbear.net
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    1 day ago

    Not excusing it, but I do think there are long, boring answers that reveal actual understandable reasons for this reaction. But as far as the rant post goes, yeah, I do empathise, it sucks when people knowingly make an environment uncomfortable for others.