Estimate total number of casualties:
30,000 civilians dead (25,000 killed and 5,000 missing) according to AI[24]
~80,000 killed in Chechnya (GfbV estimate)[25]
More in neighbouring regions
40,000–50,000 civilians killed (Kramer)[26]
More than 600 killed during attacks in Russia proper.
Turkish Kurdish anthropologist Dilşa Deniz estimates the number of deaths to be between 46.000 to 63.000.[65][66][67][68][69][70][71][72] Historian Hans-Lukas Kieser writes that 40,000 is implausibly high.[73] Historian Annika Törne estimates 32,000 to 70,000 dead as a result of massacres
Several hundred more Kurdish civilians have been killed in the past few decades by Turkey.
But you’re right that in the past few decades Turkey hasn’t killed as many Kurdish civilians as Israel has Palestinian civilians. Turkey is “just” commiting cultural genocide right now.
It’s funny how many times Israel made that excuse only to turn out that there were no Hamas members in the vicinity when they made those attacks. Even so, that’s no justification for the indiscriminate killing of civilians that Israel does on a daily basis.
This appears to be a clear false dichotomy to me (and wildly speculative opinion), there is obvious room between those two positions, and I won’t respond to what I consider bad faith discussion.
A false dilemma, also referred to as false dichotomy or false binary, is an informal fallacy based on a premise that erroneously limits what options are available. The source of the fallacy lies not in an invalid form of inference but in a false premise. This premise has the form of a disjunctive claim: it asserts that one among a number of alternatives must be true. This disjunction is problematic because it oversimplifies the choice by excluding viable alternatives, presenting the viewer with only two absolute choices when, in fact, there could be many.
So in your mind, it’s totally cool to murder innocent women, men, and children as long as there is a chance that terrorists who are currently hiding might possibly be killed in the process?
You said Hamas hides behind children, which is why you wholeheartedly disagree with Israel being morally worse than people who are not Hamas based on children killing. I have no other way to interpret that besides you thinking its OK to kill kids as long as Israel is targeting terrorists who might be hiding there.
You: Statement that only a third of people interpreted the way you apparently intended.
Me: Is this really what you meant?
You: No.
Me: Can you tell me what you meant?
You: No.
Man, it’s almost like you actually did mean it the way the rest of us interpreted it but don’t like being called a psychopath after saying psychopathic things.
Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Syrian_civil_war
Add a couple hundred of killed Georgian civilians and you have a range for Russian civilian kills in the last 30 years of:
80,000 - 230,000
If we count genocides perpetrated by Turkish nationalists in the Ottoman Empire and continued by newly founded Turkey we have:
As to genocides perpetrated solely by the state of Turkey:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dersim_massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zilan_massacre
Several hundred more Kurdish civilians have been killed in the past few decades by Turkey.
But you’re right that in the past few decades Turkey hasn’t killed as many Kurdish civilians as Israel has Palestinian civilians. Turkey is “just” commiting cultural genocide right now.
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That is a tall claim.
Citation needed.
Considering Hamas hid behind them (and Palestinian civilians), I wholeheartedly disagree with your opinion.
It’s funny how many times Israel made that excuse only to turn out that there were no Hamas members in the vicinity when they made those attacks. Even so, that’s no justification for the indiscriminate killing of civilians that Israel does on a daily basis.
I find none of this funny. And I’m similarly finding no justification for hiding behind civilians.
At least I know what side Russia and Turkey are on, and that’s incredibly telling information to me.
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15-day ban for reposting removed comments on multiple occasions and even after a 1-day ban. The next one will be permanent.
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This appears to be a clear false dichotomy to me (and wildly speculative opinion), there is obvious room between those two positions, and I won’t respond to what I consider bad faith discussion.
Have a good day!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
Your opinion means shit against facts, you are WRONG. Isreal is a terrorist state
So in your mind, it’s totally cool to murder innocent women, men, and children as long as there is a chance that terrorists who are currently hiding might possibly be killed in the process?
I said that?
You said Hamas hides behind children, which is why you wholeheartedly disagree with Israel being morally worse than people who are not Hamas based on children killing. I have no other way to interpret that besides you thinking its OK to kill kids as long as Israel is targeting terrorists who might be hiding there.
No other way… Huh odd.
Then please explain how you meant it.
How about you take another stab at it?
Mossad HQ is in densely populated Tel-Aviv
Tell me Israel isn’t doing the exact same thing…
https://www.middleeasteye.net/live-blog/live-blog-update/cnn-says-mossad-headquarters-densely-populated-area-raising-eyebrows?nid=394896&topic=Israel's war on Gaza&fid=532396
You: Statement that only a third of people interpreted the way you apparently intended.
Me: Is this really what you meant?
You: No.
Me: Can you tell me what you meant?
You: No.
Man, it’s almost like you actually did mean it the way the rest of us interpreted it but don’t like being called a psychopath after saying psychopathic things.
Equating it’s okay to kill those behind civilians
Thank you for confirming I said exactly not that.
Think you need to work on your reading comprehension
Israel straps children to the front of its cars to stop them being shot at…
Every accusation is a confession
Human Shields
Hamas:
HRW on Laws-of-War Violations 2009
Agency Demands Full Respect for the Sanctity of Its Premises in Gaza - July 2014
HRW - Palestinian Armed Groups’ October 7 Assault on Israel
Israel:
Israel/OPT: Israeli attacks targeting Hamas and other armed group fighters that killed scores of displaced civilians in Rafah should be investigated as war crimes
HRW - Gaza: Unlawful Israeli Hospital Strikes Worsen Health Crisis
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:
IDF uses Human Shields,
Including Children (2013 Report)
Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds 2024
Breaking The Silence - Testimonies from IDF Veterans
Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Lavender
Where’s Daddy
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.