There are so many novels with characters who are just extremely amazing at being swordsmen, or are extremely amazing at being assassins, or are the best mages, etc, and it’s just so goofy. Growing up I used to find wish fulfillment stories to be kind of silly, now that I’m older I see it everywhere.
Growing up I read hatchet, I read the hobbit, I read dragon boy (though for the life of me I can’t recall the story), I read tons of stories about hackers and digital world stories (also can’t recall their stories), I read horror novels (so, SO many horror novels), I read most if not all of the goosebumps books, I read animorphs; Heck I even read the first 2-3 Harry Potter books (although much later in high school). Heck I read the (first?) book in the Africa trilogy and I looooooved it; I also read nectar in a sieve and I loved that too (although re-reading it later in life, I got the impression that the author had an inferiority complex towards the British, and I’m hoping I just misunderstood it).
In all of this stuff, they were just people and not like these super skilled unbeatable characters, or princes or kings who just needed to get to the place or to get the thing so they can be politically (or even supernaturally) powerful, characters who were just pages away from being super awesome. They were easily one chance encounter away from death; they were basically fortunate enough to not meet characters who were simply capable and had the will to kill them. Most if not all those characters if they were to meet something like an evil soldier or something would just die if the author didn’t keep them alive.
Also the world is full of ordinary people and instead we get so many tales about the teeniest minority groups (ultra wealthy people, or ultra skilled people). I genuinely feel ordinary people are a giant untapped resource for story telling; characters who come from humble backgrounds who DON’T have innate superiority and/or political power and instead through either hard work, ingenuity, a desire to learn, or a desire to explore the world end up stumbling into fascinating stories, or have fascinating stories thrust upon them. That however doesn’t mean I want stories about a character proving that they can beat people with innate skills or political power through hard work to prove that anyone can succeed (like you get in so many animes); I’m not inherently against it, it’s just I’m more fascinated with stories of exploration and discovery, where the goal of the story teller is to transport you to an interesting world and give you that fun of discovery. I am however also interested in anti-colonial themed stories (I tried to read Baru Cormorant, and then tried to listen to it on audible, but it’s been ages since I could stay focused on a novel).
Even realistic fiction stories, I’m interested in tales of people from the global South; growing up I read a book from the Africa trilogy, I read nectar in a sieve, I read a novel about a poor kid in (South Africa?), and I recall reading a book that took place in Japan but for the life of me I can’t recall the name; all ordinary people and not like these super amazing unbeatable kings or princes or whatever.
I do also want to remind, I’m not looking for recommendations; I don’t really read any more and I can’t focus on audible either. I’m just posting this to chat.
Yeah I basically agree. Power tripping Mary sue wish fulfillment is boring, that’s why all those isekai about being reincarnated into a setting where the protagonist’s disadvantages or mediocrity are actually incredibly OP are so boring and tedious
Oof, yeah; and there’s no lack of them either; you also have a lot of ‘I have the weakest ability but actually it’s the most powerful’ when it’s not just straight up ‘I’m the most powerful’
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - steve gould
Can’t go a day without thinking how true this is
You read the First Law books by Joe Abercrombie? There’s a lot of very fallible characters in that. Done if them are very skilled at certain things, but they mostly suck at everything else. Great dialogue and exceptional narration by Stephen Pacey in the audiobooks.
I appreciate you don’t want recommendations.
Anyway, I also hate books with overly competent characters. Going back and rereading name of the wind made my eyes roll out of my head
I really enjoyed the trilogy until the last maybe hundred pages
Really? Oh man I loved how unfair it was. The second trilogy is much better, stand alone stories. Third trilogy is extremely bad imo
thoughts
I felt like the real world complexity got thrown away by cartoonishly evil style reveals out of nowhere. I was really disappointed by it because I thought the rest was grounded, the characters had a lot of depth and it just felt real in a way the genre usually doesn’t.
edit: how do I spoiler tag stuff? This is not working the way the embedded link indicates edit2: There is apparently a preset icon for this
If you haven’t, I’d definitely try the stand alone trilogy. Best served cold, is a classic revenge story, Heroes covers just one battle but is mostly just incredible dialogue, and Red Country is a Western. They are definitely my favourite books by him. They flesh out the world a lot and are very well written
name of the wind
I have a LOT of issues with that book, but the main character being able to just main character his way into solutions was awful (like main charactering himself into getting a scholarship for instance). Also him practicing in the woods means he’s now magically the best lute player, or also being nearly as good as his professor/absolute top of the line at the sympathy magic system. Honestly felt like the Mary Sue-ship here was to cover up a lack of creativity and talent on the author’s part; one of the funny things I realized is Rothfuss has a naming system for not one, but THREE matters in the book: names for the musical representations kvothe plays, names for every martial art move in his kung fu system, and names for his ‘sex system’; no descriptions, just names; he goes from one name to another name, to another name, and then another name; any description to what an observer would be witnessing? No!
Also in book 2 he’s maxed his sex having stat.
I’m okay with a Mary Sue or Gary Stu with a power complex if they are actually demonstrably written as being experts at what they claim to be. The biggest sin is when they make mistakes that even you as a reader can spot in the field they are supposed to be godlike in.
Welcome to the fallout from 'great man" theory ig. Most of western media is like that too. I enjoy Chinese films that get away from that sort of thing. “I Am What I Am” had protagonists that started out unskilled and made fun of by the ‘bad guy’ (really just someone gatekeeping) but through hard work and dedication by the end the ‘bad guy’ was cheering them on. Never seen anything like that in western stories that I can think of.
What if “destiny” as a concept has monarchist/aristocratic undertones, where people are “proving their natural place” at the head of society?






