It means that the story is more complex. If we cared about foreign influence we would know to which extend there still is American influence. Without asking that question we can’t judge if Orban’s relation to Russia is out of the ordinary.
We also don’t know if our judgement of Russia is rooted in manipulation. America has a motive to split us from Russia.
But in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.
Fuck off, tankie. You know damn well that this community does not like american influence the same way it does not like russian influence. So take your dumb whataboutism and get out.
I thought it through. I really don’t like authoritative regimes that imprison and torture political opponents, protestors and journalists. I don’t like regimes that oppress minorities and crack down on human and civil rights. I don’t like nations that invade other countries, comit genocide and other warcrimes. And I don’t like it when nations try and meddle with the democratic processes and societal discourse of independent states.
That’s why I like neither Russia nor the USA (and a bunch of other countries like China) and want them to be told to fuck off. Same is true for thise who support their efforts, like you.
That’s why I like neither Russia nor the USA (and a bunch of other countries like China) and want them to be told to fuck off.
How do you want to achieve that? It’s essentially the gas situation. We have cut off Russia and are now forced to buy American gas.
We don’t treat Russia and the US equally, to the advantage of the US.
China has shown how to balance powers. They were supported by the US to keep their distance from Russia. We do the opposite. We fight Russia and are forced to support the US.
Still citing the book you haven’t read? Tell us again, what comes before the one sentence you always carefully select?
We also don’t know if our judgement of Russia is rooted in manipulation.
Well, at least my judgement of Russia is rooted in their own actions, atrocities and crimes they do since 4+ years in Ukraine. It is you trying to manipulate to whitewash them from it.
The ultimate objective of American policy should be benign and visionary: to shape a truly cooperative global community, in keeping with long-range trends and with the fundamental interests of humankind. But in the meantime, it is imperative that no Eurasian challenger emerges, capable of dominating Eurasia and thus also of challenging America.
“should be benign and visionary” is cruel cynicism when you remember what happened under his watch and afterwards.
rooted in their own actions, atrocities and crimes they do since 4+ years in Ukraine
Without the NGO investments, the takeover of the intelligence service and the extend of civilian casualities in other wars you see 4 years of Russian war crimes. You miss what is actually happening.
France owed their freedom from the Nazis to USA and allies as much as the rest of Europe did. It is not a bad thing to have friends.
And yes Western Europe and USA have been very good friends for decades, that does nor mean European countries were vassals of USA.
But USA was by far the bigger economy, so they had and still have a lot of power, just like Germany was by far the biggest economy in the EEC, and had a lot of political power there because of it.
But the cooperation between the countries meant that all countries had a say, instead of things just being dictated by the strongest.
When USA threatened to invade Greenland it became very obvious that the European countries are from being vassals of USA, with several countries delivering military support to Denmark with actual troops to defend Greenland, and many more declaring their support, and EU declaring that EU would use the “bazooka” against USA if they invaded Greenland.
The Bazooka being by far the strongest measures ever used would be used against USA, for instance selling US bonds, which would absolutely upset the entire American economy.
This “Bazooka” is an anti coercion system EU developed to protect against China, but instead it turned out we needed it against USA. So EU was absolutely prepared against USA, that is the opposite of being a vassal state.
I think selling US bonds is not part of the Bazooka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Coercion_Instrument.
It would still be a possible option for the EU to react. But it also reveals that the EU kept huge anounts of bonds while the bonds were devaluating.
Unspent, the bonds are essentially a tax, allowing the US to invest the money into weapons and research. That can be seen as shared responsibilities but it can also be a hint that the dependency is mostly to the benefit of the US.
I think because after WW2 he was allergic to any kind dependency on anyone. If I remember correctly De Gaulle also pulled France out of NATO, and France developed their own nukes under him and started their own space program.
De Gaulle was hell bent on making France independent and a dominant power in Europe.
Still he favored cooperation, and was part in forming the EEC, and France was also a NATO ally.
France received about 20% of the total Marshall aid provided by USA, did that make France a vassal to USA? No of course it didn’t. I just think de Gaulle was hurt that France failed completely against the German invasion, much like Putin is hurt about the Soviet Union failed. De Gaulle wanted France to rise to its former level of prestige and international respect. And maybe he thought that Germany working closely with UK and USA, would mean that France would take a back seat?
When Germany started WW2, France was seen as nearly impossible for Germany to take, France was the shield that should prevent Germany from controlling Europe. That shield failed miserably.
France used to be considered a global power, after WW2 France was diminished to just a significant European power.
I think you may be right that the bonds are not an original part of the Bazooka, they were an addition.
I suspect the bonds owned by EU countries are placed as part of a normal economic spread of funds. I am not aware they should have been bought for the purpose of pressuring USA.
I have zero worries that the EU central bank is managed responsibly, it’s being monitored by all Euro countries which is about 20 countries, so I doubt they would get away with anything that doesn’t serve the Euro countries.
France used to be considered a global power, after WW2 France was diminished to just a significant European power.
But that was not due to WW2. Like Britain, they kept their colonies. The US helped to end the colonial rule of both of them afterwards.
I am not aware they should have been bought for the purpose of pressuring USA.
They inevitably come from a trade surplus. Why would Europe keep the bonds and not buy farmland and companies? Apple and Google could be European companies, or Chinese, who have the same trade surplus problem.
I have zero worries that the EU central bank is managed responsibly, it’s being monitored by all Euro countries which is about 20 countries
Another topic, but that structure will kill the Euro because the countries that need a weak currency have the majority.
But we are sure Russia is trying their best to hijack us like the imperialist scum they are. So we are definitely going to hate on them. And anyone with ties to them can fuck off as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Élysée_Treaty controversy
Can we be sure that the EU has not already been hijacked?
What insanity is this?
Which insanity do you mean?
That it happened? That we don’t remember it? That we don’t analyse our situation? That I have mentioned it? Something else?
You mentioning it.
What does it have to do with Russian influence within the EU?
It means that the story is more complex. If we cared about foreign influence we would know to which extend there still is American influence. Without asking that question we can’t judge if Orban’s relation to Russia is out of the ordinary.
We also don’t know if our judgement of Russia is rooted in manipulation. America has a motive to split us from Russia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Chessboard
Fuck off, tankie. You know damn well that this community does not like american influence the same way it does not like russian influence. So take your dumb whataboutism and get out.
Then think it through. People hate Russia so much that they don’t recognize how they are manipulated. Please, give it a thought.
I thought it through. I really don’t like authoritative regimes that imprison and torture political opponents, protestors and journalists. I don’t like regimes that oppress minorities and crack down on human and civil rights. I don’t like nations that invade other countries, comit genocide and other warcrimes. And I don’t like it when nations try and meddle with the democratic processes and societal discourse of independent states.
That’s why I like neither Russia nor the USA (and a bunch of other countries like China) and want them to be told to fuck off. Same is true for thise who support their efforts, like you.
How do you want to achieve that? It’s essentially the gas situation. We have cut off Russia and are now forced to buy American gas.
We don’t treat Russia and the US equally, to the advantage of the US.
China has shown how to balance powers. They were supported by the US to keep their distance from Russia. We do the opposite. We fight Russia and are forced to support the US.
We have plenty of reason to hate Russia.
And it does not prevent us from hating on other imperialist war machines.
All of them can fuck right off.
Hating the US equally doesn’t help to understand the manipulations. Understanding comes from trying to find their reasons for their actions.
Still citing the book you haven’t read? Tell us again, what comes before the one sentence you always carefully select?
Well, at least my judgement of Russia is rooted in their own actions, atrocities and crimes they do since 4+ years in Ukraine. It is you trying to manipulate to whitewash them from it.
The full quote:
“should be benign and visionary” is cruel cynicism when you remember what happened under his watch and afterwards.
Without the NGO investments, the takeover of the intelligence service and the extend of civilian casualities in other wars you see 4 years of Russian war crimes. You miss what is actually happening.
Are you sure? Let’s check:
Has Russia invaded Ukraine?
Is this a war of aggression?
Is Russia committing war crimes in this war?
Should Russia fully retreat from Ukrainian territory according to the international borders of 1994?
That’s if you only look at Russia and Ukraine. The relations between the US and Europe have changed to the advantage of the US.
That what happened? That USA wanted cooperation back then? That’s a heck of a lot better than what they do today.
De Gaulle’s judgement was:
It could be that it has been like today since the beginning of the EU. It was just never obvious. However statesmen like de Gaulle knew it.
France owed their freedom from the Nazis to USA and allies as much as the rest of Europe did. It is not a bad thing to have friends.
And yes Western Europe and USA have been very good friends for decades, that does nor mean European countries were vassals of USA.
But USA was by far the bigger economy, so they had and still have a lot of power, just like Germany was by far the biggest economy in the EEC, and had a lot of political power there because of it.
But the cooperation between the countries meant that all countries had a say, instead of things just being dictated by the strongest.
When USA threatened to invade Greenland it became very obvious that the European countries are from being vassals of USA, with several countries delivering military support to Denmark with actual troops to defend Greenland, and many more declaring their support, and EU declaring that EU would use the “bazooka” against USA if they invaded Greenland.
The Bazooka being by far the strongest measures ever used would be used against USA, for instance selling US bonds, which would absolutely upset the entire American economy.
This “Bazooka” is an anti coercion system EU developed to protect against China, but instead it turned out we needed it against USA. So EU was absolutely prepared against USA, that is the opposite of being a vassal state.
Why do you think de Gaulle had the opinion?
I think selling US bonds is not part of the Bazooka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Coercion_Instrument. It would still be a possible option for the EU to react. But it also reveals that the EU kept huge anounts of bonds while the bonds were devaluating.
Unspent, the bonds are essentially a tax, allowing the US to invest the money into weapons and research. That can be seen as shared responsibilities but it can also be a hint that the dependency is mostly to the benefit of the US.
I think because after WW2 he was allergic to any kind dependency on anyone. If I remember correctly De Gaulle also pulled France out of NATO, and France developed their own nukes under him and started their own space program.
De Gaulle was hell bent on making France independent and a dominant power in Europe.
Still he favored cooperation, and was part in forming the EEC, and France was also a NATO ally.
France received about 20% of the total Marshall aid provided by USA, did that make France a vassal to USA? No of course it didn’t. I just think de Gaulle was hurt that France failed completely against the German invasion, much like Putin is hurt about the Soviet Union failed. De Gaulle wanted France to rise to its former level of prestige and international respect. And maybe he thought that Germany working closely with UK and USA, would mean that France would take a back seat?
When Germany started WW2, France was seen as nearly impossible for Germany to take, France was the shield that should prevent Germany from controlling Europe. That shield failed miserably.
France used to be considered a global power, after WW2 France was diminished to just a significant European power.
I think you may be right that the bonds are not an original part of the Bazooka, they were an addition.
I suspect the bonds owned by EU countries are placed as part of a normal economic spread of funds. I am not aware they should have been bought for the purpose of pressuring USA.
I have zero worries that the EU central bank is managed responsibly, it’s being monitored by all Euro countries which is about 20 countries, so I doubt they would get away with anything that doesn’t serve the Euro countries.
But that was not due to WW2. Like Britain, they kept their colonies. The US helped to end the colonial rule of both of them afterwards.
They inevitably come from a trade surplus. Why would Europe keep the bonds and not buy farmland and companies? Apple and Google could be European companies, or Chinese, who have the same trade surplus problem.
Another topic, but that structure will kill the Euro because the countries that need a weak currency have the majority.
We can never be sure the EU isn’t being hijacked.
But we are sure Russia is trying their best to hijack us like the imperialist scum they are. So we are definitely going to hate on them. And anyone with ties to them can fuck off as well.
The history of China has shown that it was best to balance USSR and USA. Without Russia and China we are forced to be on the side of the US.