• manxu@piefed.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    7 days ago

    I just had to learn French in middle age, and it’s been fun. They key takeaways from my experience:

    1. Contact is everything. The longer you spend listening, reading, speaking, just in general interacting with the target language, the better. Doesn’t matter what you do - Duolingo or PeerTube videos, novels or comic strips.
    2. Communication is the goal, not fluency. You can get the gender of a word wrong and people will still understand you. You can use the wrong tense and that’s usually okay. Don’t try to “sound more like a native” or “learn slang words that everyone uses,” because heaven knows nobody is going to take you for a native. But if you can get the point across and can understand what people are saying, you win.
    3. Speaking is 10x harder than listening or reading or even writing, because it involves not only forming sentences in an unfamiliar language, but also saying them, which involves your muscles. At first, it’s really hard to say the sounds of the language that don’t exist in your own language, and I found that very frustrating.
    4. Language and culture are different, but interconnected. You don’t really speak a language if you don’t understand the culture it’s attached to. For instance, at first I didn’t know what the cashiers were asking me at the checkout, until I learned that they want to see the bags you brought from home to make sure they are empty. The problem with missing cultural references is that everybody around you knows them, and they don’t understand why you don’t, or what there is to explain.
    5. One of the very few great use cases of LLMs is, in fact, talking with a chat bot. You give it a good prompt (look for them online) and you are forced to talk in the target language. If the bot can understand you, a native speaker probably will, too. A good tip is to try an AI conversation on the topic of something you are about to do in real life, like applying for an apartment or having a conversation about cheese.
    6. Personally, I found that my language skills drowned completely under certain, specific circumstances. For instance, for the life of me I cannot understand voice messages, at all. Even phone conversations are really bad for me, both in talking and listening. I can have a perfectly fine conversation with someone, but when I have to talk with them on the phone, it’s like I never learned the language.
    7. The tool you use is not as important as the time you spend. Duolingo was really meh: too much useless vocabulary, not enough grammar and pattern recognition, lack of ability to specify areas of interest, down to always on animations even when you had them all turned off. But, despite the heavy focus on the words, “chouette” and “trousse,” I sort of learned French to the point where I can follow everyone along and can speak and be understood. Took a year to the day and the entire tree.
    • gramie@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      6 days ago

      I second this. It also teaches without using rote memorization. Better than any other books or videos I have ever seen. I have been supporting LT with a monthly donation for several years now.

  • AccountMaker@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    6 days ago

    Seconding language transfer that someone mentioned, I found it to be hands down the best free resource for Greek.

    Assimil courses are also some of the best materials out there, I highly highly recommend it if you can find a course for your target language.

    As for apps, I use Clozemaster for drilling words (I use a premium account), but you can make your own anki decks for that purpose.

    But nothing beats talking to native speakers, either using something like italki for actual lessons, or just finding random native speakers. I often forget words I repeated 1000 times during my studies, but words I learned by speaking to others somehow just get glued to my mind.

  • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org
    cake
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    edit-2
    7 days ago

    As far as I can tell, nothing beats persistence. Ideally persistence out of necessity, like immersion, although that might be hard to achieve.

    It’s not really a thing you can shortcut.

  • MochiGoesMeow@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    6 days ago

    Im still not great at Spanish because I dont practice frequently but these things helped me:

    1. Learned alphabet.
    2. Learned examples of conjugation of verbs with real life examples.
    3. Started with children level books and increase difficulty to read and comprehend what is being said.
    4. Listen to music in that language and learn what its saying.
    5. Watching telenovelas with English captions and try familiarizing words
    6. Final phase I think is visiting a country who’s primary language is that language.
  • JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    7 days ago

    This can depend on your personality type and self-discipline.

    If you’re a methodical introvert who likes reading, go for a vocab-focused app with spaced repetition, and continue by reading actual newspapers or books (even children’s books) as soon as you can.

    If you’re an impulsive extrovert with a short concentration span, you’re going to need a more human experience, if possible 1-to-1 tutoring.

    In all cases, don’t get hung up on grammar and (especially not) phonetics at the start. Vocab is the key that will unlock the rest.

    FWIW I speak multiple languages fairly competently and I’m a qualified English teacher.

  • emb@lemmy.world
    cake
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    7 days ago

    There are lots of great things to do, but most important is to build a habit and keep working at it. Engage with the language every day, and work up to consuming content designed for native speakers.

    Duolingo and similar apps are helpful, but don’t put all your eggs in that, or any single, basket. Also do Anki or some other flashcard thing. And at the very least a beginner textbook or grammar guide is good to have. Early on, mix time between textbook, apps, ‘comprehensible input’ videos. Work your way up to reading, and look for graded readers to get started.

    (Also, as Duolingo gets worse, consider alternatives like Memrise and Mondly. Or even paid stuff like Busuu, Lingq, Pimsleur, Babbel, Rosetta Stone. Also, your local library may give access to Transparent Language or Mango. Although of course I can’t vouch for most of these personally.)

    Another rec: check out !languagelearning@sopuli.xyz for a cool community. Good place to ask questions and get support.

    There are probably a ton of cool learning resources specific to your target language. Look online for communities around it.

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    7 days ago

    After getting a hang of the basics watch, listen to and read stuff (ideally also talk) in the target language. It’s really that simple; yuu use the language, you’ll learn the language.

  • Kennystillalive@feddit.org
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    7 days ago

    Study the basics, consume media in said language. Use the language not caring if you do it wrongly. If people correct you, use their input to improve. The trick is getting over the “omg this is embarassing” hinge, when you are butchering it while learning.

    • frank@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      7 days ago

      We live in not-our-native-language country, and I try to fail at using the local language multiple times per day. If it’s an easy convo and I succeed it doesn’t count for me.

      It’s nice, pushes my language use out of its comfort zone. And when I fail I apologize and try to regroup. Definitely has resulted in some miscommunication lol but it’s gotten me far fast.

      I’ve seen so many people here who know a LOT and are so scared to use it since it won’t be “right”

    • Lembot_0003@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 days ago

      But keep in mind that native speakers might have an even worse understanding of grammar than foreigners: most locals speak intuitively and never care to actually study their native language.

      • Kennystillalive@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        5
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        7 days ago

        Yeah, but I count being able to communicate with natives a W. Even if it’s not gramatically 100% correct.

        • Lembot_0003@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          7 days ago

          I never stated that it is useless. I said that natives might say the total bullshit and do that with a poker-face being absolutely sure of their correctness.

  • hansolo@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    7 days ago

    The absolute best way is immersion. Full on survival, sink or swim, daily brain exhaustion to cram information in that you will use, over and over.

    Short of that, finding ways to practice using the language is the key. Listening to videos is fine, but you need to simulate thinking and responding to make the language part of what your brain goes to. Find people online to talk to via Zoom or discord. I like to think of conservations I have and translate them in Google and re-run the interaction 4 or 5 times in the second language.

    For numbers, find videos online that are things like lottery draws.

    Bon chance!

  • acidbattery@sopuli.xyz
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    7 days ago

    Start dating a native speaker of the language :D

    But seriously, find a method that works for you. Start by learning common vocabulary, learning grammar rules, and finding a place to practice a language. That could be an instructor, class, online community, or pen pal. There are sites for the latter. Read books and newspapers in your target language and add their subtitles to the films you watch.