U.S. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez castigated House Republicans for pursuing massive cuts to Medicaid "in the dead of night" as a committee markup hearing on the GOP's legislation dragged on into the early hours of the morning.
AOC recently voted in favour of an ADL supported definition of “anti-semitism”.
So I’m sorry but whatever leftwing sounding stuff she says has to be assumed to be purely theatre, same as when the DNC assholes claim to care about workers, the poor or minorities.
You can’t be a Leftwinger and support ethno-Fascists like the Zionists at the same time, so one has to conclude from her own actions that AOC’s “leftwing character” is purelly performative and basically the ideology-free business strategy of crafting an image that differentiates oneself from the competition whilst not in fact being any different.
Whomever is the inheritor of Bernie’s politics, it ain’t her.
Criticism of Israel is not the same as intolerance of Jewish people. I would think identifying Jewish people with the actions of a rogue genocidal state is pretty anti-Semitic.
She’s consistently voted against of sending weapons to Israel, she attempted to block the sale of arms to Israel before October 7th, and she’s called what’s happening in Gaza a genocide on the House floor. I can count on one hand the number of House/Senate Democrats that have a record like that. She signed on to a mostly symbolic resolution rather than give her enemies ammunition by voting against, “Condemning the global rise of antisemitism and calling upon countries and international bodies to counter antisemitism.” I get not liking the IHRA definition of antisemitism, but please, get some fucking perspective.
From what I read, she diverged from the rest of the Progressives in voting for the resolution so clearly the rest of the Democrat left didn’t share her worry about giving their enemies ammunition
Could she not have abstained? Also why would this be any more damaging for her than for the other ones or than her previous votes?
If indeed she is the only hope of the left-of-center in America (which would explain why some here respondent to my posts by talking about the “need to vote for the lesser evil”) I really hope this was a mistake or had a concrete gain for at least her constituents rather than a start of “becoming pragmatic” - I’ve seen the whole descent into “pragmatism” with Labour MPs in the the UK and it invariably turned out to be them selling out for personal political gains rather than a hard-nosed weighing of pros and cons and deciding to do something they heavily disliked for the sake of a genuine greater gain for their constituents (not the “what’s good for me politically is good for everybody” self-serving open-ended excuse) further down.
Lets hope I’m totally wrong and she’s at the very least deriving concrete gains for her constituents for that (rather than merely political horse trading for her own gain) or just made an honest mistake.
Take a really hard look at yourself if you think a leftwinger should have no red lines at all in what they support.
Only unprincipled people have no red lines at all, and if you think that somebody who doesn’t have a red line when it comes to supporting an ethno-Fascist ideology like Zionist is going to have a red line when it comes to things like destroying the Environment, further weakening worker rights or further destroying social security, then I have a water crossing piece of real-estate to sell you.
She could easilly had just abstained, but no, she had to support Zionism.
Reminds me of Marx Groucho’s saying “I have Principles. If you don’t like them, I have others” - if AOC acts like that, how is she ethically any different from the likes of Pelosi?
“Compromise” is the ultimate vague excuse for dishonest politicians - it justifies everything and is the ultimate salesman argument.
Talk of “need for compromise” is right now used by the worst amongst the Democrats to support Republican legislation and has backed 4 decades of the Democrat Party moving so far to the Right that they’re as Rightwing Reagan was on Economics and even more to the Right that he was in subjects like immigration.
You keep making bullshit blanket statements. You need to understand that not all compromises are the same – what you compromise on and why matters. AOC was not ever going to get the party to budge on Zionism, so what’s the fucking point of destroying her credibility and effectiveness on other issues by tilting at windmills?
Speaking of which, you have no credibility and I don’t give a fuck about anything you have to say. Go away.
Mate, given the style of your interaction with heavy recourse to personal insults and the low (low, low, oh so very low) reasoning and intellectual level it proves, going away from your posts is a great advice.
Sure mate, keep up doing the same as until now and not demanding consistency and honesty from supposedly left-of-center politicians.
Blind following politicians making tall promises and not demanding that their actions match those promises (just like the MAGA crowd does) clearly and with now shadow of a doubt is the way for the country to be ruled in the interest of the many rather than the few, as the last 50 years of doing exactly that clearly prove.
Keep on doing the same and expect different results, just like Einstein advised!
There are other, actually honest and Principled Democrats worthy of your support, most notably Bernie Sanders.
AOC, sadly, with this just proved herself as an unprincipled politician who just talks the right talk but when push comes to shove doesn’t walk the walk.
Actions speak louder than words, and if in her actions she betrays the principles she claims to have for this, what else will she betray when its convenient for her?
Might want to support the Democrats who actually stick by the principles they say they have rather than annoint “heroes” and “saviours” based purelly on the quality of their talkie-talkie and then mindlessly rage when they’re criticized for not following in action the principles they claim to have.
Ok, I’m not an American so clarify this for me: was he also not a Democrat when he was a Candidate in the Democrat Primaries against Hillary Clinton (hence then it was allowed only because of that) or has he left the party in the meanwhile (hence we would not be able to run for it now) or was he always an Independent and it was always allowed?
Because if AOC trully is the ONLY hope for the American left, you people are indeed trully fucked if she turns out to have “flexible” principles.
The desperation of having no other viable option would explain the “She’s CANNOT be criticized” style of feedback I’m getting to criticizing her for, in this subject not actually standing for the principles she claims to have, including people talking about the whole “we have to vote for the lesser evil” part, which only makes sense if there is literally no other viable candidate from the left side of the Democrat Party and hence AOC being less than honest being panic inducing for anybody not a full-on neoliberal (which would explain the number of people whose response to me was little more than personal insults)
Yes, we are truly fucked, and if you check our political history, have practically always been truly fucked, remain truly fucked, and continue to be truly fucked - as evidenced by our current administration and the last… All of them.
We had to fight a civil war to convince a solid half that slavery had to stop. And then kept doing it anyways, and still do it today. The whole empire sits on the graves of the original people, the survivors of whom still live in reservations we put on the shittiest possible land, and have for centuries now with no change regardless who’s in power.
This is the USA. This has always been the USA, once you peeled off the Hollywood varnish.
Oh man, that explains the rage I’m getting for just being a Skeptic and daring criticize AOCs “inconsistency”.
Sorry for you guys!
It’s always easy to be pretty strict about Principles and Skeptic about the motivations of those in politics, when one sits outside with no real stake in a race and hence no real emotional investment in it.
(Mind you, I’ve been just the same towards the leading figures of the political parties I was a member of in the countries I lived in, so maybe it’s something else - as I see it, the more important the person the more important it is that they behave beyond reproach)
That said, America didn’t seem to always been fucked - surely there was a post war period up until the late 70s were for most things were pretty good (certainly as a kid I used to look up to that America), though with the caveat that it was only true if one wasn’t an Afro-American.
Even if we agree that the US was always somewhat fucked, surely the current level of being fucked is pretty record setting?!
There are no other candidates for her elected position. So we could not vote and let another republican in or vote for her if you live in her district. Not understanding this is why you are a dumb ass. I’ll keep using personal insults when they fit.
You insulting others is a veritable public service - it quickly signals to everybody else how much of your point is the product of “reasoning” and how much it is mindless emotionalism (exactly the same way MAGAs operate, so congrats on that) so saves everybody else time and effort.
Do keep up tagging yourself like that random internet stranger! 👍
Sure mate, I’m a Russian troll and a stupid one even who thinks AOC very important for Ukraine whilst Bernie Sanders (who I very clearly supported) would be deliver Ukraine to Russia.
Keep on arse licking your “sacred cows” and not holding them to the principles they claim to have, because that has been so great for America (TWO Trump Presidencies and, if its up to him, counting) and thus by extention to the Ukraine who you claim to want Glory for.
Mate, if somebody is willing to cross any and all lines, they don’t really have Principles - they’re practicing that good old Marxist (the Groucho rather than the Karl) adage of “These are my Principles. If you don’t like them, I have others”.
Maybe I’m naive, but in my view a genuine Leftwinger must have Principles and hence red lines, not just talk the talk whilst not walking the walk - in other words, be more than a self-promoting salesman, since a self-promoting salesman is really just a “personal upside maximizer” which is just another way of saying a follower of the “What’s in it for me?!” right-wing mindset.
Again, in my naivity, I see actual direct support for the desires of a ethno-Fascist ideology - Zionism - currently mass murdering children due to their ethnicity, as a red line that nobody with even the smallest shred of Humanitarian Principles would cross.
(I can understand the “I’m not absolutelly sure” statement of abstaining, but activelly voting for it is something else altogether).
In a way, I think you almost got there but just stopped short of following the last step in the logical chain: Trump did got elected a second time because of this shit, not because of the people complaining about the politicians who say one thing and do something else, but because almost all politicians are doing it including so many self-proclaimed leftwing ones, so the word of politicians is all worth the same in the eyes of anybody who is not a fully indoctrinated party tribalist and in such an environment a populist shamelessly lying can swindle a lot more people than in an environment were dishonesty in politicians isn’t as widespread and normalized and hence would get punished - in other words, both the election of a shameless lying populist like Trump AND people complaining about dishonest and hypocrite self-proclaimed leftwing politicians are the product of the same things: the normalization of dishonesty in Politics.
You’re not wrong about the dishonesty and hypocrisy—it has poisoned the well across the board. A politician without red lines or real principles isn’t on the left, no matter what they call themselves.
But where we differ is in how we respond to that reality. As much as I agree with your point, I have to take a more pragmatic view. Not voting against Trump is part of how we got Trump. Sitting it out or refusing to engage just hands power to the worst option.
I hate the choices as much as anyone. It’s a shit sandwich. But I’d rather work with what I’ve got and try to make it suck less than give the whole table over to outright fascism.
I’ll keep calling out the hypocrisy, and I’ll keep pushing from the left—but I won’t step aside and let something far worse win by default. Idealism has to live in the real world, or it ends up serving the very thing it claims to resist.
Chose a faker like AOC to be the Democrat candidate and you’re just switching the swindlers, thus maintaing the climated of “say one thing do something else” political dishonesty that leaves the door open for another Trump-like populist to win next time around.
If I was an American in American I would be working my ass off in the Democrat Primaries and even at local level, including guerrila political propaganda tactics, to make sure that the real leftwingers were being pushed forwards in large numbers at that level and doing all I could to screw the AIPAC supported candidates, since continuing the Democract strategy of fielding liars and hypocrites is only going to make sure that the Trump problem happens again and again and again until one day one of them finally succeeds in becoming dictator for life.
I mean, surelly Democrats learned from Trump’s second victory that “more of the same” isn’t a solution for far-right polulism.
I think you and I are going to have to just agree to disagree. I looked through your comments and it is clear the side you are on. You have a nice day.
Only mindless tribalists have “sides” and think others are like that too.
Having Principles, on the other hand, means having no “sacred cows” who are above criticism when their actual actions do not respect such principles.
Tagging everybody who disagrees with their views with a “side” is how people who would otherwise be thinking individuals reduce themselves to easilly led muppets.
AOC recently voted in favour of an ADL supported definition of “anti-semitism”.
So I’m sorry but whatever leftwing sounding stuff she says has to be assumed to be purely theatre, same as when the DNC assholes claim to care about workers, the poor or minorities.
You can’t be a Leftwinger and support ethno-Fascists like the Zionists at the same time, so one has to conclude from her own actions that AOC’s “leftwing character” is purelly performative and basically the ideology-free business strategy of crafting an image that differentiates oneself from the competition whilst not in fact being any different.
Whomever is the inheritor of Bernie’s politics, it ain’t her.
The ADL is redefining anti-semitism to mean anti-Zionism.
Criticism of Israel is not the same as intolerance of Jewish people. I would think identifying Jewish people with the actions of a rogue genocidal state is pretty anti-Semitic.
She’s consistently voted against of sending weapons to Israel, she attempted to block the sale of arms to Israel before October 7th, and she’s called what’s happening in Gaza a genocide on the House floor. I can count on one hand the number of House/Senate Democrats that have a record like that. She signed on to a mostly symbolic resolution rather than give her enemies ammunition by voting against, “Condemning the global rise of antisemitism and calling upon countries and international bodies to counter antisemitism.” I get not liking the IHRA definition of antisemitism, but please, get some fucking perspective.
From what I read, she diverged from the rest of the Progressives in voting for the resolution so clearly the rest of the Democrat left didn’t share her worry about giving their enemies ammunition
Could she not have abstained? Also why would this be any more damaging for her than for the other ones or than her previous votes?
If indeed she is the only hope of the left-of-center in America (which would explain why some here respondent to my posts by talking about the “need to vote for the lesser evil”) I really hope this was a mistake or had a concrete gain for at least her constituents rather than a start of “becoming pragmatic” - I’ve seen the whole descent into “pragmatism” with Labour MPs in the the UK and it invariably turned out to be them selling out for personal political gains rather than a hard-nosed weighing of pros and cons and deciding to do something they heavily disliked for the sake of a genuine greater gain for their constituents (not the “what’s good for me politically is good for everybody” self-serving open-ended excuse) further down.
Lets hope I’m totally wrong and she’s at the very least deriving concrete gains for her constituents for that (rather than merely political horse trading for her own gain) or just made an honest mistake.
I am getting real sick and tired of fake-leftist concern trolls pushing bad-faith purity test rhetoric.
Agree 100% She’s one of the few who take no money from AIPAC. This might be bot activity?
Take a really hard look at yourself if you think a leftwinger should have no red lines at all in what they support.
Only unprincipled people have no red lines at all, and if you think that somebody who doesn’t have a red line when it comes to supporting an ethno-Fascist ideology like Zionist is going to have a red line when it comes to things like destroying the Environment, further weakening worker rights or further destroying social security, then I have a water crossing piece of real-estate to sell you.
She could easilly had just abstained, but no, she had to support Zionism.
Reminds me of Marx Groucho’s saying “I have Principles. If you don’t like them, I have others” - if AOC acts like that, how is she ethically any different from the likes of Pelosi?
If you’re too fucking stupid to understand things like compromise and strategic voting, that’s nobody’s problem but your own.
You need to take your own fucking advice and quit being a condescending dipshit.
Were do the compromises stop?
“Compromise” is the ultimate vague excuse for dishonest politicians - it justifies everything and is the ultimate salesman argument.
Talk of “need for compromise” is right now used by the worst amongst the Democrats to support Republican legislation and has backed 4 decades of the Democrat Party moving so far to the Right that they’re as Rightwing Reagan was on Economics and even more to the Right that he was in subjects like immigration.
You keep making bullshit blanket statements. You need to understand that not all compromises are the same – what you compromise on and why matters. AOC was not ever going to get the party to budge on Zionism, so what’s the fucking point of destroying her credibility and effectiveness on other issues by tilting at windmills?
Speaking of which, you have no credibility and I don’t give a fuck about anything you have to say. Go away.
Mate, given the style of your interaction with heavy recourse to personal insults and the low (low, low, oh so very low) reasoning and intellectual level it proves, going away from your posts is a great advice.
Oh yeah, this is the totally brilliant line of thinking that helped put Trump back in office. You’ll forgive me if I discount you entirely.
Sure mate, keep up doing the same as until now and not demanding consistency and honesty from supposedly left-of-center politicians.
Blind following politicians making tall promises and not demanding that their actions match those promises (just like the MAGA crowd does) clearly and with now shadow of a doubt is the way for the country to be ruled in the interest of the many rather than the few, as the last 50 years of doing exactly that clearly prove.
Keep on doing the same and expect different results, just like Einstein advised!
Lol keep rejecting everything but the gold standard even as the country is falling, just like Daddy Putin advised!
Oh man, that’s the second response I had today at the level of a 5-year-old.
Cheers for another laugh.
Lots of words to try to explain being a dumbshit. It’s moral to support the lesser of evils, full stop.
There are other, actually honest and Principled Democrats worthy of your support, most notably Bernie Sanders.
AOC, sadly, with this just proved herself as an unprincipled politician who just talks the right talk but when push comes to shove doesn’t walk the walk.
Actions speak louder than words, and if in her actions she betrays the principles she claims to have for this, what else will she betray when its convenient for her?
Might want to support the Democrats who actually stick by the principles they say they have rather than annoint “heroes” and “saviours” based purelly on the quality of their talkie-talkie and then mindlessly rage when they’re criticized for not following in action the principles they claim to have.
Bernie is not a Democrat
Ok, I’m not an American so clarify this for me: was he also not a Democrat when he was a Candidate in the Democrat Primaries against Hillary Clinton (hence then it was allowed only because of that) or has he left the party in the meanwhile (hence we would not be able to run for it now) or was he always an Independent and it was always allowed?
Because if AOC trully is the ONLY hope for the American left, you people are indeed trully fucked if she turns out to have “flexible” principles.
The desperation of having no other viable option would explain the “She’s CANNOT be criticized” style of feedback I’m getting to criticizing her for, in this subject not actually standing for the principles she claims to have, including people talking about the whole “we have to vote for the lesser evil” part, which only makes sense if there is literally no other viable candidate from the left side of the Democrat Party and hence AOC being less than honest being panic inducing for anybody not a full-on neoliberal (which would explain the number of people whose response to me was little more than personal insults)
Was, specifically for the primary, and then left.
Yes, we are truly fucked, and if you check our political history, have practically always been truly fucked, remain truly fucked, and continue to be truly fucked - as evidenced by our current administration and the last… All of them.
We had to fight a civil war to convince a solid half that slavery had to stop. And then kept doing it anyways, and still do it today. The whole empire sits on the graves of the original people, the survivors of whom still live in reservations we put on the shittiest possible land, and have for centuries now with no change regardless who’s in power.
This is the USA. This has always been the USA, once you peeled off the Hollywood varnish.
Oh man, that explains the rage I’m getting for just being a Skeptic and daring criticize AOCs “inconsistency”.
Sorry for you guys!
It’s always easy to be pretty strict about Principles and Skeptic about the motivations of those in politics, when one sits outside with no real stake in a race and hence no real emotional investment in it.
(Mind you, I’ve been just the same towards the leading figures of the political parties I was a member of in the countries I lived in, so maybe it’s something else - as I see it, the more important the person the more important it is that they behave beyond reproach)
That said, America didn’t seem to always been fucked - surely there was a post war period up until the late 70s were for most things were pretty good (certainly as a kid I used to look up to that America), though with the caveat that it was only true if one wasn’t an Afro-American.
Even if we agree that the US was always somewhat fucked, surely the current level of being fucked is pretty record setting?!
Anyways, you take care and good luck.
There are no other candidates for her elected position. So we could not vote and let another republican in or vote for her if you live in her district. Not understanding this is why you are a dumb ass. I’ll keep using personal insults when they fit.
Sure mate.
You insulting others is a veritable public service - it quickly signals to everybody else how much of your point is the product of “reasoning” and how much it is mindless emotionalism (exactly the same way MAGAs operate, so congrats on that) so saves everybody else time and effort.
Do keep up tagging yourself like that random internet stranger! 👍
Slava Ukraini you Russian troll.
Sure mate, I’m a Russian troll and a stupid one even who thinks AOC very important for Ukraine whilst Bernie Sanders (who I very clearly supported) would be deliver Ukraine to Russia.
Keep on arse licking your “sacred cows” and not holding them to the principles they claim to have, because that has been so great for America (TWO Trump Presidencies and, if its up to him, counting) and thus by extention to the Ukraine who you claim to want Glory for.
Russian troll, just because you support Bernie doesn’t mean squat.
AOC is growing quite popular and you feel threatened by it.
Oh man, that was something else as arguments go.
Consider your “Russian troll” thoroughly crushed (and entertained) by that argument.
You have a good day: you gave me a good laugh and as I see it you deserve a good day for it.
I understand why you might not agree with her but seeing things in such black and white in what got Trump elected a 2nd time.
Mate, if somebody is willing to cross any and all lines, they don’t really have Principles - they’re practicing that good old Marxist (the Groucho rather than the Karl) adage of “These are my Principles. If you don’t like them, I have others”.
Maybe I’m naive, but in my view a genuine Leftwinger must have Principles and hence red lines, not just talk the talk whilst not walking the walk - in other words, be more than a self-promoting salesman, since a self-promoting salesman is really just a “personal upside maximizer” which is just another way of saying a follower of the “What’s in it for me?!” right-wing mindset.
Again, in my naivity, I see actual direct support for the desires of a ethno-Fascist ideology - Zionism - currently mass murdering children due to their ethnicity, as a red line that nobody with even the smallest shred of Humanitarian Principles would cross.
(I can understand the “I’m not absolutelly sure” statement of abstaining, but activelly voting for it is something else altogether).
In a way, I think you almost got there but just stopped short of following the last step in the logical chain: Trump did got elected a second time because of this shit, not because of the people complaining about the politicians who say one thing and do something else, but because almost all politicians are doing it including so many self-proclaimed leftwing ones, so the word of politicians is all worth the same in the eyes of anybody who is not a fully indoctrinated party tribalist and in such an environment a populist shamelessly lying can swindle a lot more people than in an environment were dishonesty in politicians isn’t as widespread and normalized and hence would get punished - in other words, both the election of a shameless lying populist like Trump AND people complaining about dishonest and hypocrite self-proclaimed leftwing politicians are the product of the same things: the normalization of dishonesty in Politics.
You’re not wrong about the dishonesty and hypocrisy—it has poisoned the well across the board. A politician without red lines or real principles isn’t on the left, no matter what they call themselves.
But where we differ is in how we respond to that reality. As much as I agree with your point, I have to take a more pragmatic view. Not voting against Trump is part of how we got Trump. Sitting it out or refusing to engage just hands power to the worst option.
I hate the choices as much as anyone. It’s a shit sandwich. But I’d rather work with what I’ve got and try to make it suck less than give the whole table over to outright fascism.
I’ll keep calling out the hypocrisy, and I’ll keep pushing from the left—but I won’t step aside and let something far worse win by default. Idealism has to live in the real world, or it ends up serving the very thing it claims to resist.
Chose a faker like AOC to be the Democrat candidate and you’re just switching the swindlers, thus maintaing the climated of “say one thing do something else” political dishonesty that leaves the door open for another Trump-like populist to win next time around.
If I was an American in American I would be working my ass off in the Democrat Primaries and even at local level, including guerrila political propaganda tactics, to make sure that the real leftwingers were being pushed forwards in large numbers at that level and doing all I could to screw the AIPAC supported candidates, since continuing the Democract strategy of fielding liars and hypocrites is only going to make sure that the Trump problem happens again and again and again until one day one of them finally succeeds in becoming dictator for life.
I mean, surelly Democrats learned from Trump’s second victory that “more of the same” isn’t a solution for far-right polulism.
Right?!
Right?!..
I think you and I are going to have to just agree to disagree. I looked through your comments and it is clear the side you are on. You have a nice day.
Only mindless tribalists have “sides” and think others are like that too.
Having Principles, on the other hand, means having no “sacred cows” who are above criticism when their actual actions do not respect such principles.
Tagging everybody who disagrees with their views with a “side” is how people who would otherwise be thinking individuals reduce themselves to easilly led muppets.
Have a nice day, sir.
Cheers.
How about you mind your own business since it’s a pretty fair guess to say you cannot vote in my country.
Unless I’m wrong, in which case, carry on.
If you look through thier comments you will see their agenda. I will leave it at that. Best thing to do is just ignore them.