That is an interpretation of Islam by one person who has a website.
If it were true for all Islam, the entire Islamic Golden Age would not have happened.
Where do you think we got things like distillation and algebra from?
the people who you are referring to were from mutazila (who were a part of Ilm al-kalam), who were slowly genocided by hanbalites, nowadays they are as good as murtads/shia, (i.e. dead) because sunnis count them as apostates/khawarij
and the website i used is run by meccan authorites (yk the heart of islam)
For someone with your username and apparent obsession with Islam based on your post history, you don’t seem to realize that there is no one Islamic authority.
There’s no such thing as a pope of Islam. In fact, Mecca is controlled by Sunni Wahabbists. They don’t even speak for all Sunni Muslims.
And it’s pretty sad that you need an ethnically Jewish atheist like me to explain that to you.
KAUST is not that far away from there
neither are concerts or pubs or basically anything haram (which only came after 2017 reforms also slavery was still practices in saudi arabia in 1962)
yeah, so this is mostly opinion of conservative nutjobs detached from realty
not really these are authentic muslim scholars and they cite both religious and historically accurate sources to justify their position
slavery was still practices in saudi arabia in 1962
And slavery continues in the US to this day…
8th century Islamic scholars like Al-Ghazali made huge contributions to philosophy with their cosmological arguments for the existence of God. These are still discussed to this day in philosophy classes. In the grand scheme of things it’s only relatively recently that there has been this strain of iconoclasm and anti-intellectualism emerging amongst the most hardline islamists. It’s pretty similar to modern day evangelical christians. Seems strange to single them out.
Since we’re on the atheism subreddit I’d like to say personally I’m a hard agnostic. In the sense that I think it is impossible to prove definitively whether God exists or not. At the same time I don’t act like there is one because I’ve not yet been convinced by any theological argument. I think the new atheism movement led by Dawkins et al from the noughties made a mistake focusing on individual religions. Religions are essentially an anthropological curiousity and failing to attempt to understand them is a handicap with regards to trying to understand other human societies.
And the popes didn’t mind the concept of astronomy until it went against what the religious dogma said had to be true.
Fun fact, popes employ their own astronomers: https://www.vaticanobservatory.org/
also
Al-Ghazali forbade math.
Ghazali, in his book, “The savior from Straying” (المنقذ من الضلال), states his position towards the math and philosophy, using this preface :
“There may occur negative points from the mathematics:
When someone starts to learn it, step by step, he will be interested in philosophies, and he will think that all other matters will be as clear as the math, so, when he sees the unhallowed speaking of the philosophers from the others, unintentionally, he will start to obey the unhallowed behavior of the philosophers, and will say: if the religion was right, so these great scholars would follow it, and when he hears that they (philosophers) deny the religion, he will say that the right path is to reject the religion…”
After a detailed discussion, he concludes that :
“To prevent ones from this big risk, we should prevent student from studying the mathematics. Although this knowledge (math) is not related to the religion directly, but because it is the starting point to getting stray, it (math) is forbidden.”
This way, he forbade the math.
math.
You never questioned why Algebra has an Arabic name OP?
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Algebra was invented by Greeks, Babylonians, Indians, and Chinese. Al-Khwarizmi who was the father of algebra actually modified and translated the works of Greeks, Babylonians and Indians, and he was not an Arab, he was a Khwarizmian from Greater Persia
he also popularized indian numeral system, nowadays 1234567890 are known to be hindu arabic numerals but they are actually hindu numerals , the only way “arabs” contributed to it was mass producing research.
i am not saying arabs didn’t contribute to science it’s just pan-arabist and isalmist propaganda to say modern numbers and algebra are due to arabic/islamic impact
indian numeral system
What?
Literally, what?
They’re literally called Arabic numbers…
Who calls them “Indian numbers”? I’ve legitimately never heard that phrase…
There was East Arabic numbers before Arabic, but that isn’t what was used for algebra and not what you use now. We use Arabic numbers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu–Arabic_numeral_system
from Greater Persia
Which is the same as modern day Iran and the surrounding Arabic countries…
science it’s just pan-arabist and isalmist propaganda to say modern numbers and algebra are due to arabic/islamic impact
No, it’s literally what the dominant number system is called…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_numerals
Where are you getting your information from?
Positional decimal notation including a zero symbol was developed in India, using symbols visually distinct from those that would eventually enter into international use
That’s not exactly what they said…
But I have to guess what you’re talking about.
Ghazali gave 18 reasons why women were inferior here and said that anyone who depends on arguments to seek the truth is restricting the mercy of god.
He also said that people who study logic would apply the same high standards to religious claims and find them lacking. He thought that people should already be certain in islam before studying.
In other words, you should assume islam is the truth before thinking critically about it so you dont become a disbeliever.
also
The Credit for Earlier Muslim Scientists’ Achievements Belongs to the Translated Works of Greek/Roman Scientists, Not Islam
Please note that:
None of the earlier Muslim scientists ever claimed to derive scientific discoveries directly from the Quran or Hadith.
Muslims were initially introduced to Greek/Roman scientific works through their conquests in Egypt and other regions. Later, Abbasid Caliph Mamun (d. 213 Hijri year) ordered the translation of these works into Arabic. Only after this development did Muslim scientists begin to emerge.
Muslims assert that the Sahaba (companions) of Muhammad were the best of Muslim generations. However, despite reading the Quran and Hadith throughout their lives, the Sahaba and the subsequent 5 to 10 Muslim generations were unable to extract any scientific knowledge from the Quran and the Hadith.
Present-day Muslims also struggle to extract scientific discoveries directly from the Quran/Hadith, often relying on science to make new findings before connecting them to the Quran.
Damages that Islam Inflicted upon the Science Islam made the whole Islamic world get religious education like a donkey. As a result, Islam produced millions of Islamic Scholars in the last 1400 years, who were involved only in Fiqh and Sectarian fights. Compared to those millions of Islamic Scholars, Islam was unable to produce even a handful of scientists.
And you will not see even a single woman in the list of those earlier Muslim scientists of the last 1400 years, while Islam considers women to be deficient in intelligence, and they had to stay at home in the name of “Islamic Modesty”.
Moreover, the prohibition of studying human anatomy by Islam, in the name of “respect” for the deceased hindered medical progress for centuries, impeding critical advancements in the medical field.
And then Islam also made life difficult for many Muslim scientists too due to their sects or atheist leanings. Ibn Sina was hiding his whole life, and he had to write his books in this state of hiding. Al-Razi was hit in his head by his own books in the mosque. Ibn-e-Rushd got the punishment for being an atheist. Yaqub al-Kindi lashed in public.
In contemporary times, schools in Muslim countries continue to teach that Darwin’s Theory of Evolution is incorrect, promoting the belief that humans were directly created by Allah and that Allah directly sent humans to the earth after a woman from the crooked rib of a man deceived him to eat the forbidden apple.
Taken from:
It was the 8th century - cut him some slack lol. Of course his views are going to seem antiquated. My point was that you are throwing the baby out the the bath water by condemning an entire civilisation.
Edit: you are falling prey to the same fallacy of judging ancient thinkers by modern standard that led to Edinburgh University students calling for David Hume to be cancelled for an “offensive” footnote.
that would mean that all study of modern medicine is haram, but i think there are carveouts for that
There is with this too…
OPs link boils down to:
We use the original name for what we invented, not the Western name from when they later figured it out
But OP almost exclusively shit posts about how Islam is backwards
just say astagfirullah after and before studying
- They just use a different name because Arabic philosophy was around before Greeks made up the word “philosophy”:
But the fact of the matter is that philosophy is an alien entity in the body of Islam. There is no philosophy in Islam and there are no philosophers among Muslims in this deviant sense. Rather in Islam there is certain knowledge and prominent scholars who examine matters. Among the most famous philosophers who were nominally Muslims were al-Kindi, al-Faraabi, Ibn Sina (Avicenna) and Ibn Rushd (Averroes).
Which doesn’t sound as strange when you realize the ones saying “no philosophy” probably don’t speak English (or Greek) as a first language.
- Why did you link some random question/answer website and act like it’s relevant to all Islam? Like… Are you under the impression it’s a unified religion like Catholicism? If so I can probably clarify a whole bunch of shit for you that’s relevant to all the Abrhamic religions, because none of the major branches are monoliths
bro, its not qna website 🤣 it’s run by meccan authorities
Oh wow.
You should read it again regardless, because you don’t seem to have understood it the first time from the false title you used.
Tagentially related, but have you seen that new movie Heretic, OP? Think you’d like it.
Can’t say I was a fan. I liked it more in the moment, but after thinking about it, here are what I believe are the major takeaways.
- Mormons are the protagonists
- Mormons are constantly persecuted in their daily life, but they continue on because they are strong
- Mormons look out for each other when they need help
- Athiests are crazy, no matter how many points they make sound reasonable
- When you pray, miracles happen when you need them
- This one’s up to interpretation, but the final scene seemed to say “Even if all religion is a white lie, it’s quite nice and doesn’t hurt anyone.”
All of which I find to be false in the real world.
Yes, I was being a bit cheeky asking to be honest. I also felt like the movie set up Hugh Grant as a straw man (although as an actor I think he’s good at playing a villain).
