• Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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    3 months ago

    The government keeps fucking everyone but the democrats blame the republicans for it, and the republicans the democrats for it, not realizing they are talking about the exact same group of people.

    I’m shocked either party can maintain the illusion at this point but thats just my perspective.

    • WoahWoah@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      If you don’t see a difference between the current political parties, that seems like a you problem.

      • Ajen@sh.itjust.works
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        3 months ago

        That’s a strawman argument. Pointing out that one of them is worse than the other ignores the real problem - the system is broken.

        • theparadox@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          And comparing the two parties like they are both the same within this broken system is counterproductive. One party is openly planning an authoritarian coup, and the other is far too beholden to the capitalist class. Voting third party or abstaining (same thing) is a vote to end whatever shreds of democracy we still have.

          Vote for the lesser evil and make a scene about whatever you don’t like but don’t pretend the two parties are the same. It kills morale and it’s bullshit to boot.

            • theparadox@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              There are better ways to end an empire than making a christofascist the emperor and hoping it burns to the ground eventually.

              • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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                3 months ago

                Oh sure but this

                Vote for the lesser evil and make a scene about whatever you don’t like but don’t pretend the two parties are the same. It kills morale and it’s bullshit to boot.

                Doesn’t sound like it has a happy resolution.

                  • Krauerking@lemy.lol
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                    3 months ago

                    If we are clutching onto the shreds of democracy through bullshit votes where pointing out the obvious might break moral to the point of slipping fully into fascism… That just feels like the end of an empire. Wasnt a statement on how to end it but a genuine question of;

                    So you you think this is the last chapters? Cause that sounds bad enough to look at history and see you don’t normally come out the other side of this breakdown unscathed.

            • theparadox@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Then your values are flawed.

              You are watching a victim forced to give a gun to either

              1. sleazeball or

              2. a psychopath who has an explicitly outlined plan to use the gun to get more guns and kill as many people as possible.

              Instead of urging the victim to choose the lesser evil you are doing… nothing? Bravely doing nothing so that next time… the sleazeball will make better choices or arguments? Or maybe so that next time the victim will learn their lesson and find a third option?

              • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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                3 months ago

                Well I wouldnt tell that person to go on message boards and shit on every single person who shows the slightest bit of hesitance to vote democrat.

                I also wouldnt use false equivalencies to prove my point either.

                It might come as a shock to you, but there are more than just two scenarios that exist. You can bark at me all you want but you care more about predicting who wins than affecting change, so we aren’t even talking about the same things.

                • theparadox@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  Well I wouldnt tell that person to go on message boards and shit on every single person who shows the slightest bit of hesitance to vote democrat.

                  Lol. You aren’t hesitant, you are falsely equating a party that is deeply flawed and a party actively working to undermine and steal an election because they know that their policies are so disturbingly bad and unpopular that even the disproportionate power their given by the electoral college can’t sustain them unless they cheat.

                  There are more than two outcomes, but I know that several very possible outcomes result in christofascism ruling the USA for the foreseeable future.

                  You can bark at me all you want but you care more about predicting who wins than affecting change, so we aren’t even talking about the same things.

                  Predicting who wins? What are you even talking about. I don’t know who is going to win so my point is all hands on deck to preserve what flawed democracy we still have left. If you plan is to sit this one out in some misguided attempt to “affect change” by doing nothing, then I’m going to bark.

                  • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works
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                    3 months ago

                    Because you are so sure criticism of the democrats means I wouldnt vote for them. Which is part of the problem. Lack of creativity we could call it but the world isn’t black and white. No matter who you vote for you are suppressing the discussion around politics. Making it more narrow as to what is acceptable. The reason we are stuck with two parties is because of this narrow thinking. Politics is not a combat sport its a co-op game, and nothing will change until public perspective shifts towards that.

        • Knightfox@lemmy.one
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          3 months ago

          It’s not really a strawman argument, it’s closer to an ad hominem. In fact, the argument you are making is closer to a strawman.

          “A straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction.” -Wikipedia

          Saying that “if you can’t tell the difference between the two parties is a you problem” is attacking the person not the issue. Saying that the difference between the two parties isn’t the problem (when that’s what is being argued) and instead it’s the system is by definition a strawman. Using the strawman to make the discussion about the futility of voting in a flawed system just goes to show how much of a strawman it is.

          • Ajen@sh.itjust.works
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            3 months ago

            It’s a strawman because they’re trying to shift the focus from one thing (the system is broken) to another (Republicans are bad)

            • Knightfox@lemmy.one
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              3 months ago

              Nope, the thread they were responding is this one (https://lemmy.one/comment/13175909) which is about the two parties (specifically whether higher turnout would benefit one party or the other). Someone else replied saying that it’s about the system being broken (itself a strawman). This guy made an attack on the person, but was still focused on the two party system. Then you made a strawman as well.