The problem is that’s an elitist and exclusionary take.
Vegan and vegetarian replacements are way too expensive for almost the 99% of the population, and while you can theoretically replace some of these with medication and supplementation, it will never be the same as the synthetic replacements will never have the exact nutritional matrix that the natural animal source has, and as such it will not interact the same with our metabolism and our organs, thus causing a higher probability on related diseases and health issues.
This take is also especially crazy to me because I’m dirt poor, like one missed check from homelessness poor. I’m living entirely off of savings while I try to earn a certification and also work full time to survive. Kinda insulting to call it elitist when I’m barely surviving.
Bro, I’m fucking Venezuelan, here the fucking income for a decent work is less than $4/month, I can’t even study because of that, I’m unemployed because both AI and the horrible administration in my country are crushing any work possibilities out there, my mom’s need an special diet and I have to take 6 fucking chronical meds that are expensive as hell, I eat the same shit everyday because I can’t afford anything else, I only have a house because it’s the same one from my mom-side grandfather and it’s falling into pieces, I fucking know what I’m talking about.
I’m not suggesting everyone must go vegan, but I guarantee there are Buddhists in your community in similar economic positions that are vegan or vegetarian. It sounds like it’s more a mental bandwidth thing than a requirement. It’s objectively cheaper to eat vegan if you subsist on rice and lentils, like much of the most impoverished do. Again, I’m not suggesting you need to do anything, but the idea that going vegetarian or vegan is an elitist or privileged thing is objectively false, economically. You could absolutely go vegan for cheaper than you are eating now, if you were willing to restrict your diet. It’s not the right decision for everyone, but don’t make it about money or privilege.
Not going vegan or vegetarian because you have more important things to worry about than a diet change is a totally valid reason. Don’t make excuses or punch left because your feelings are hurt. You can choose to not go vegan or vegetarian for your own reasons without shaming those that make the difficult choice to do so.
Yeah, I understand that, and actually, I’m sorry for the really harsh response, I was a bit stressed although that’s not justification, I felt bad afterwards.
And I’m not trying to shame those who want to be vegan. I have vegan family, and I respect and love them. But I’m tired of being shamed and attacked for being omnivore (I’m not even carnist, and I hate industrialized meat production).
But it’s not objectively false my claim.
Maybe I was too broad, it can be more nuanced, but at least where I live, is cheaper not to be totally vegan, and I know because I have to read the price of everything everytime I go to buy stuff with my mother (I’m the one that knows how to use the calculator, she doesn’t). Meat consumption should be reduced, nevertheless, but never totally removed.
I know you’re not forcing anyone to be vegan too, but there’s a really noisy group of vegans and vegetarians that want to ban it, and will demonize and shame and attack non-vegan and non-vegetarian people in the process.
Banning would be absolutely impractical until affordable replacements for staples exist. Obviously regional availability differs, but I suspect if you were to go shopping with a vegan or vegetarian in your community they could show you how to eat vegan affordably. You can buy bulk legumes and rice, supplement that with seasonally affordable other vegetables for fiber and nutrients, and season for flavor. You won’t be eating a diverse diet, but you certainly can eat cheaper vegetarian or vegan, just by the law of thermodynamics. It way more expensive to feed plants to livestock to then be eaten by you, compared to just feeding you directly. Keep an eye out for seasonal maize family vegetables, squash family vegetables, onions, and cabbage. Its all about when and how much you buy. The only meat that comes close to vegetable pricing per calorie is chicken.
Actually most of my diet is just chicken and cow meat, and cow meat here is really cheap because we live relatively near to where it’s locally produced.
I actually asked my vegan family to teach us to affordably eat vegan (like, still consuming eggs, cheeses and the like, because for me these dense proteins are something I can’t leave, I have an accelerated metabolism and I feel hungry really fast, and fiber-rich foods are expensive here because most of them are imported and we have international commerce problems), but they told us that was impossible here because of our countries situation, even when they’d like us to eat less meat.
I’d actually like vegan food to become more universally accesible but that’s unfortunately something hard with the current worldwide events.
What? You don’t need replacement meats. I eat veggies and cheap plant protein crumbles or tofu, both cheaper than meat equivalents, and I have regular blood work done and all levels are normal. I don’t take any supplementary vitamins either. Going vegetarian is definitely not more expensive, and going vegan isn’t either if you’re willing to change your diet. Obviously, one to one replacements for egg, cheese, and meats are gonna be pricey, but you don’t need those.
Copy-paste from another comment I made:
This take is also especially crazy to me because I’m dirt poor, like one missed check from homelessness poor. I’m living entirely off of savings while I try to earn a certification and also work full time to survive. Kinda insulting to call it elitist when I’m barely surviving.
Bro, I’m fucking Venezuelan, here the fucking income for a decent work is less than $4/month, I can’t even study because of that, I’m unemployed because both AI and the horrible administration in my country are crushing any work possibilities out there, my mom’s need an special diet and I have to take 6 fucking chronical meds that are expensive as hell, I eat the same shit everyday because I can’t afford anything else, I only have a house because it’s the same one from my mom-side grandfather and it’s falling into pieces, I fucking know what I’m talking about.
I’m not suggesting everyone must go vegan, but I guarantee there are Buddhists in your community in similar economic positions that are vegan or vegetarian. It sounds like it’s more a mental bandwidth thing than a requirement. It’s objectively cheaper to eat vegan if you subsist on rice and lentils, like much of the most impoverished do. Again, I’m not suggesting you need to do anything, but the idea that going vegetarian or vegan is an elitist or privileged thing is objectively false, economically. You could absolutely go vegan for cheaper than you are eating now, if you were willing to restrict your diet. It’s not the right decision for everyone, but don’t make it about money or privilege.
Not going vegan or vegetarian because you have more important things to worry about than a diet change is a totally valid reason. Don’t make excuses or punch left because your feelings are hurt. You can choose to not go vegan or vegetarian for your own reasons without shaming those that make the difficult choice to do so.
Yeah, I understand that, and actually, I’m sorry for the really harsh response, I was a bit stressed although that’s not justification, I felt bad afterwards.
And I’m not trying to shame those who want to be vegan. I have vegan family, and I respect and love them. But I’m tired of being shamed and attacked for being omnivore (I’m not even carnist, and I hate industrialized meat production).
But it’s not objectively false my claim.
Maybe I was too broad, it can be more nuanced, but at least where I live, is cheaper not to be totally vegan, and I know because I have to read the price of everything everytime I go to buy stuff with my mother (I’m the one that knows how to use the calculator, she doesn’t). Meat consumption should be reduced, nevertheless, but never totally removed.
I know you’re not forcing anyone to be vegan too, but there’s a really noisy group of vegans and vegetarians that want to ban it, and will demonize and shame and attack non-vegan and non-vegetarian people in the process.
Banning would be absolutely impractical until affordable replacements for staples exist. Obviously regional availability differs, but I suspect if you were to go shopping with a vegan or vegetarian in your community they could show you how to eat vegan affordably. You can buy bulk legumes and rice, supplement that with seasonally affordable other vegetables for fiber and nutrients, and season for flavor. You won’t be eating a diverse diet, but you certainly can eat cheaper vegetarian or vegan, just by the law of thermodynamics. It way more expensive to feed plants to livestock to then be eaten by you, compared to just feeding you directly. Keep an eye out for seasonal maize family vegetables, squash family vegetables, onions, and cabbage. Its all about when and how much you buy. The only meat that comes close to vegetable pricing per calorie is chicken.
Actually most of my diet is just chicken and cow meat, and cow meat here is really cheap because we live relatively near to where it’s locally produced.
I actually asked my vegan family to teach us to affordably eat vegan (like, still consuming eggs, cheeses and the like, because for me these dense proteins are something I can’t leave, I have an accelerated metabolism and I feel hungry really fast, and fiber-rich foods are expensive here because most of them are imported and we have international commerce problems), but they told us that was impossible here because of our countries situation, even when they’d like us to eat less meat.
I’d actually like vegan food to become more universally accesible but that’s unfortunately something hard with the current worldwide events.
What? You don’t need replacement meats. I eat veggies and cheap plant protein crumbles or tofu, both cheaper than meat equivalents, and I have regular blood work done and all levels are normal. I don’t take any supplementary vitamins either. Going vegetarian is definitely not more expensive, and going vegan isn’t either if you’re willing to change your diet. Obviously, one to one replacements for egg, cheese, and meats are gonna be pricey, but you don’t need those.