• Nautalax@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      At the core of the defense paradigm. Since Ukraine has a gigantic military (currently more personnel than even France), pretty cutting edge work on drone and anti-drone warfare and has been fighting for years against the EU’s biggest land threat. They’re not saying Ukraine is at the core of Europe the continent…

      • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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        2 days ago

        Why is Russia the “EU’s biggest land threat”?

        That’s exactly the point. Allying with Ukraine is the main thing that drives that.

        • Nautalax@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Previously the European states learned that letting some major power go around willy-nilly annexing strips of land and entire states from their neighbors does not end well. They’re on Russia’s list of unfriendly countries, are subject to Russian influence operations that are not especially appreciated and there is some evidence to suggest that Russia would seek to reclaim lands from eastern EU states if given the opportunity. Plus the occasional bombing and constant rhetoric against them. So obviously they will prefer to back Ukraine rather than letting Russia absorb it, become stronger and start eyeing the next country.

          • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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            2 days ago

            that letting some major power go around willy-nilly annexing strips of land and entire states from their neighbors does not end well

            Which power was that?

            and there is some evidence to suggest that Russia would seek to reclaim lands from eastern EU states if given the opportunity

            What evidence is that?

            Because, again, the logic from you chicken hawks seems only to be that Europe must support Ukraine fighting Russia, because it is obvious Russia is an enemy, based on the fact that they are fighting Ukraine.

            Notice the issue there? Nowhere is there any threat to Europe listed.

            and constant rhetoric against them

            wait, so rhetoric is a casus belli now?

            In that case, isn’t this NAFO style crap direct aggression? They’re very loud about how they’re willing to fight to the last Ukrainian - of course, not when they’d be in danger themselves - but how it’s good that Russians are dying.

            Russia has made no threat I’m aware of to attack any EU member. If you have evidence of such, present it. Otherwise, your weasel words are just that.

            • Nautalax@lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              Which power was that?

              Germany and the USSR were carving off regions and conquering small states left and right in the lead-up to WWII, both in independent adventures and their team-up via the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. The Munich Agreement is pretty egregious with Hitler claiming it was the last territorial demand he had in Europe and Chamberlain coming back claiming he had achieved peace for our time. Only for it to turn out that Germany would use all the fortifications, industry, manpower and resources it had gained at the expense of its neighbor to roll over the rest of Czechoslovakia. So Germany became a much more imposing force than it had started out as because folks were content to just watch it snowball and not help Czechoslovakia defend itself.

              What evidence is that?

              Because, again, the logic from you chicken hawks seems only to be that Europe must support Ukraine fighting Russia, because it is obvious Russia is an enemy, based on the fact that they are fighting Ukraine.

              Notice the issue there? Nowhere is there any threat to Europe listed.

              wait, so rhetoric is a casus belli now?

              In that case, isn’t this NAFO style crap direct aggression? They’re very loud about how they’re willing to fight to the last Ukrainian - of course, not when they’d be in danger themselves - but how it’s good that Russians are dying.

              Russia has made no threat I’m aware of to attack any EU member. If you have evidence of such, present it. Otherwise, your weasel words are just that.

              The rhetoric does matter when Russian politicians are threatening the EU all the time by saying they’ll nuke them, that ex. Baltic independence isn’t legal, that they’re states at war, etc. But there’s concrete action too. A Russian drone strike just hit an apartment in Romania and Medvedev is saying it won’t be the last one. They’ve set off parcel bombs in EU countries. Blown up ammunition depots. Violate their airspace, send assassins into their countries, cyberattacks, influence operations to boost separatists and groups like Brexit… and even if it weren’t doing all of that, a country that conquers smaller neighbors is plenty concerning on its own.

              • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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                19 hours ago

                Yeah. And how exactly was Nazi Germany stopped, again? That’s the point you seem to be skipping over with your false equivalencies here.

                Violate their airspace, send assassins into their countries

                Blow up their pipelines, seize funds, and the like too?

                cyberattacks, influence operations to boost separatists and groups like Brexit

                So color revolutions for thee but not for me are fine?

                But hey, maybe we just have different ideas about what proper international relations look like. I’m sure that, considering you’re claiming Russia has attacked Europe, you’re now en route to fight in Ukraine, right?

                • Nautalax@lemmy.world
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                  13 hours ago

                  It was ultimately stopped with world war in the way it turned out, but that could have been headed off far less bloodily earlier on. If the powers that be had not gifted the Sudetenland to Germany then Czechoslovakia actually had a pretty decent set-up to defend with many fortifications at the rugged borders, far more defensible than the flat north European plain Poland had to defend against a Germany with millions more people, vast amounts of looted gold reserves and extra years of deficit spending to build a far more massive army. It could have held on while the west mobilized and attacked and wrecked Germany’s military via multiple fronts on a much smaller regional scale.

                  Going back earlier with the remilitarization of the Rhineland the German troops had orders to immediately retreat and if they saw any armed resistance or so much as a single French uniform. The demilitarized Rhineland was key to the cordon sanitaire of French alliances that ringed Germany.

                  Expansionist states don’t become easier to deal with as they grow bigger so unless you already have and expect to keep amazing relations you should probably not them keep growing unchecked. And even if you do have amazing relations you have to keep in mind that politics can change on a dime and throw that in peril.

                  So color revolutions for thee but not for me are fine?

                  Glad to see you’ve graduated on from Russia posing no threat to EU to positing that it’s only fair for them to be threatening. And against big threats you prepare countermeasures, such as not letting them swallow up your neighbors.

        • NoiseColor @lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          I’m sorry the word paradigm confuses you, but we do have dictionaries. It’s easy too check the meaning of the word and not look stupid.

          Also, if you don’t know what someone means, you can also ask, not just think they are stupid because you don’t understand them.

          • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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            1 day ago

            It doesn’t confuse me. It doesn’t mean what you think it does, as Ukraine is not a template.

            • NoiseColor @lemmy.world
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              1 day ago

              Look, take it easy. I know you are a kid, because you lack the self-confidence to ask people what they mean (and you shared a cartoon). But I can tell you, people that ask look way smarter than people that try to make it into a weird confrontation. Today you can just paste stuff into chatgpt or something and let it explain and for sure write a better response than you did, no offense. Plus, if you want an honest exchange of opinion, you must likely won’t get it with an arrogant behavior, but by taking a few minutes and replying with something thoughtful. You got my 10 minutes, but that’s done. Have a nice evening.

              • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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                1 day ago

                Yeah, I’m middle-aged. You’re on quite a roll here.

                Just don’t use words you don’t understand, it’s a bad look.

                • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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                  1 day ago

                  How embarassing then. Anyways what people are refusing to tell you (because it’s obvious) is that being at the center of a paradigm and being at the center of a geographical landmass are different things.

                  • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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                    20 hours ago

                    Ukraine is neither the center geographically nor strategically of any defense of the EU.

                    being at the center of a paradigm

                    Yeah, once again, you don’t know what that word means. I suggest you look it up.

    • remon@ani.social
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      2 days ago

      Now try reading the entire sentence!

      spoiler

      Ukraine is at the core of the defence paradigm … not the core of Europe.

      • Matty Roses@lemmy.today
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        2 days ago

        Defense of what? Using words you don’t understand doesn’t change the fact you haven’t defined what you’re trying to say.

        Which is basically a tautology that just sees fighting Russia as a good thing on its own, but without any reason given.

        So again, sit down and actually think about what you’re trying to say. You’ll come off far less stupid.