• jdr@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    Gnostic and agnostic are not opposites!

    Edit: they certainly look like they’re opposites, but just like deontology and ontology aren’t opposites, these two words are just awkwardly related. See e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism which is not just “believing in a god”. I’d say a proper antonym for atheism is theism/deism.

      • jdr@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        They are of course, but that’s not the meaning I attach to those words.

    • texture@lemmy.world
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      5 days ago

      respectfully, your edit made it even more clear that you are misunderstanding the context and meaning of the terms in this case. agnostic / gnostic atheism needent necessarily have anything to do with gnosticism as a general term.

      • jdr@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        True enough, but even still I don’t see that “gnostic atheism” is obviously the opposite of “agnostic atheism”. In any case it’s not what I claimed. The terminology is confusing and I was hoping to be helpful, although I see now I was far too glib.

        https://hmolpedia.com/page/Gnostic_atheist

          • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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            5 days ago

            No, no you aren’t. I’m worried about the creator of the site, though. Y I K E S

            (ETA: Y’all, I think we’re being trolled.)

        • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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          5 days ago

          True enough, but even still I don’t see that “gnostic atheism” is obviously the opposite of “agnostic atheism”.

          They aren’t, but that wasn’t the claim. Here’s what you said:

          Gnostic and agnostic are not opposites!

          The article you linked explains how they’re opposites. Gnostic and agnostic are opposites, just like theism and atheism are opposites.

        • texture@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          right, one type of atheism and another type of atheism arent “opposites” and no one said they were.

          the prefix in question and how it functions in this case are indeed opposites. one is a position of certainty about the topic, and one is a position of a lack of that certainty.

      • jdr@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        I take your point. For the record if you do claim that gnosticism and atheism are indeed opposites, them isn’t “gnostic atheism” an oxymoron?

        • texture@lemmy.world
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          5 days ago

          no no … its like this … within the context of atheism the prefixes gnostic and agnostic refer to the following term “atheism”.

          atheist refers to belief gnostic / agnostic refers to certainty

          no one claimed anything about gnosticism at all, let alone that its the opposite of atheism. thats doubly wrong. also, iirc you are the one who introduced opposites into this conversation. i do agree the whole situation is semantically confusing. :)

    • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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      5 days ago

      Oh, I see. “Gnostic” has more than one meaning. It can mean “A believer in Gnosticism”, but it can also mean “Of, relating to, or possessing intellectual or spiritual knowledge.” I’m using the American Heritage Dictionary, but you can find similar definitions in other dictionaries.

      In this case, I’m sure that most people can figure out that a gnostic atheist isn’t an atheist who believes in Gnosticism.

      • jdr@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        Totally right. Worse again though, there is a lesser known term “gnostic atheist”, but it doesn’t quite mean “a spiritual believer in the absence of a god”, nor any other straightforward guess.