Finland has inaugurated an industrial-scale sand battery this week in the southern town of Pornainen, where it'll take over heating duties from an old woodchip power plant for the municipality. It's set to reduce carbon emissions from the local heating network by as much as 70%, and is the largest…
Maybe I’m dumb, but why are we still using steam turbines to turn heat energy into electricity?
There really isn’t a more efficient process? Going from a heat source, transfer to water, change of state to gas, use hot gas + pressure to turn a mechanical generator/dynamo and THEN you get electricity.
There are so many failure points, maintenance points, and efficiency losses in that path.
We really have no means to convert heat energy to electricity? We do it with solar, we dont use sunlight to boil water.
What is missing here?
It is incredibly efficient at huge scale.
There are other methods, but they’re far less efficient.
Solar panels convert light, not heat, into electricity. Specifically, photons (light) excite electrons in the solar cell, and these excited electrons then move through the solar cell and form a current.
This isn’t really being used to generate electricity. They’re developing a generator from it, but currently it’s used for purely thermal energy transfer. Basically, the towns have big pipes running through them for communal heating, and these pipes are heated by this thermal energy storage.
I imagine they’re only talking about electricity generation as an extra revenue stream for their customers who buy these, rather than it being a good solution for storing and generating electricity. The 90% efficiency is much better than combustion generators, but far worse than true electric batteries.
Large scale three phase energy generation is always something rotating in sync with the grid. Easiest way to do that is to spin turbine+generator.
All nuclear, coal, biomass power plants just heat water to 300-800°C and push it through turbine.
The thing is that it is really quite robust, and there isn’t any other good solutions to it. They do have quite a lot of loss, but the cooled water after process (still over 100°C) can be used in other industries or district heating improving the efficiency.
Hydropower just spin the turbine with water flow. Wind directly spins the turbine, which is good for efficiency. Solar panels are still quite inefficient, but because they just use space, they make lot of sense even with poorer efficiency.
You can’t really compare those efficiencies with each other, between different technologies.
With fuel, you’re talking about how much energy per kg.
With wind, you’re talking about how much energy per m/s wind.
With solar, you’re talking about how much energy over the whole solar spectrum that gets through the atmosphere. However, a single junction p-n diode made of silicon is only meant to work at a specific wavelength, and will only get energy from around this wavelength, and as such could only ever get a maximum theoretical efficiency of ~36% of the total solar spectrum of light wavelengths. In the lab I think some have achieved ~33%.
You can get higher efficiency solar cells, but you have to use novel materials and have multiple layers of different p-n junctions. Short wavelengths first, these materials are transparent to longer wavelengths, which are absorbed by lower layers. With a theoretical infinitely layered solar cell you could achieve ~88% of the solar spectrum energy. In reality it’s really hard to make a semiconductor diodes that fit certain wavelengths, leaving gaps in the spectrum even with multiple diode layers.
~30% for solar cells sounds ridiculously low compared to like, maybe, 70% for fuels. But it’s a completely different measurement. Grid scale battery systems are mayb 98-99% - but that’s just electrical energy in and electrical energy out over a short time.
There is no common denominator, but the solar energy is free.
Steam, right? Describing steam as cooled water seems somewhat odd to me, but it is indeed still water its gaseous form. So, cooled steam of water?
Those are pressured systems, the water is kept in high pressure, which means it is liquid water. When it goes through turbine it it steam, usually superheated.
In industrial settings you can get water to 350°C in liquid form, it just about the pressure.
Even the city wide district heating networks water is kept at 3 bar, which can keep the water at liquid for 133°C in the winter time.
Oh, I didn’t think of that. Thanks for the explanation.