How did we ever get to the point where an MBA is a highly respected degree? Those skills have no utility on their own and yet we allow essentially uneducated people to run basically all businesses. I want to see engineers run companies that make things, chefs run restaurants, and doctors run hospitals, not these idiots whose only skills involve making graphs and excel sheets.
I am an engineer so take what you like from that information. I know the stereotype well but the best business leaders I’ve ever worked with directly were good engineers before they were anything else. I don’t think it’s possible to have a sustainable business plan without a rigorous understanding of every part of the process of making whatever it is that you’re selling. There isn’t anyone out there who knows that better than the engineers who design and build it.
Dog, we’re all engineers. And the worst business leaders I’ve ever worked with directly were good engineers before they got promoted into positions of management (or started their own terrible business, as the case might be) in which they had no business being because the skill requirements for engineering are not automatically transferable to managing people. It’s called the Peter Principle, and there’s some real truth to it.
Haha yeah that’s true but I don’t think it negates what I’m saying. Some people aren’t cut out for management and that’s perfectly fine. However, getting an MBA isn’t going to change you from one type of person to the other. Assuming that the basic characteristics of a manager are present in either case then I absolutely believe that an engineer will make a better high level leader than an MBA.
However, getting an MBA isn’t going to change you from one type of person to the other.
Sure, an MBA is sort of useless. Management is largely based around personality. And you can’t really teach personality. It’s the same way for a lot of professions, like teaching, actually. In fact, I’d say the management pool should be drawn from people who were accomplished high school teachers. There’s a lot of crossover there in terms of organization, planning, and dealing with a bunch of people who all hate the work you make them do.
I’d rephrase it to be, “People who’ve worked their way up the ranks within the company have the most experience at all levels and understand what it takes to provide a good product. Those people can make good managers.”
Jag-offs that graduate Stanford and just want to extract money are leaches and should be salted immediately.
Sounds great expect that most small business owners do a shit job of running the operations of a business. At best they stumble through it. It’s just not their passion to deal with legalities, OSHA, taxes, payroll, accounts payable, accounts receivable, etc.
The problem with MBAs is that they have little or no practical experience with the business they’re running (seasonality, how to motivate employees, etc). There are some good MBAs out there but there are so many more poor ones. They aren’t looking at the human factor at all. It’s a space that the universities don’t teach for. Everything is KPI related instead. That’s their ultimate downfall.
It’s just not their passion to deal with legalities, OSHA, taxes, payroll, accounts payable, accounts receivable, etc.
All of that should be handled by lawyers, accountants, and finance people. The MBA is not generally the one doing any of that directly though. They’re the ones managing the people that do that work and telling them what to prioritize. And therein lies the problem as you correctly pointed out; those are all secondary business functions. They are important parts of any business but are not the fundamental driver of any real business. What the company makes or sells or consults about or whatever else is the actual business and MBAs don’t generally know a thing about that part. Letting them steer all of the corporate ships in America is a huge miscalculation and it’s also a big part of why things are getting more and more fucked up for everybody.
They aren’t looking at the human factor at all.
That is an important point. It’s also a pretty good summary of the problem. MBAs ignore everything that made a business successful (people being a huge factor here) and focus on eternally increasing profits, which inevitably leads to making the product as shitty as it can possibly be while still somewhat meeting expectations, and even that last part is becoming less and less important.
Hedge fund gobbled for raping capital.
Forced sale by Darden by activist (hedge) investors.
New hedge fund owned RL company immediately sells all its property (land & buildings) to separate property company owned by hedge funds.
Big dividends for hedge funds! Billions sucked out of company into shareholder pockets.
New RL then leases all properties, incurring higher costs (now paying rent!)
Pandemic.
5 year leases all up! Property company raises rent!
RL can’t afford higher rent on all locations, no longer has capital to borrow against (all sold 5 years ago), and goes bankrupt.
MBAs are destroying the world.
How did we ever get to the point where an MBA is a highly respected degree? Those skills have no utility on their own and yet we allow essentially uneducated people to run basically all businesses. I want to see engineers run companies that make things, chefs run restaurants, and doctors run hospitals, not these idiots whose only skills involve making graphs and excel sheets.
Oh they can’t make graphs or excel sheets either don’t worry.
The only pivot they know is the quote from Friends
I see you’ve never worked with engineers.
I am an engineer so take what you like from that information. I know the stereotype well but the best business leaders I’ve ever worked with directly were good engineers before they were anything else. I don’t think it’s possible to have a sustainable business plan without a rigorous understanding of every part of the process of making whatever it is that you’re selling. There isn’t anyone out there who knows that better than the engineers who design and build it.
Dog, we’re all engineers. And the worst business leaders I’ve ever worked with directly were good engineers before they got promoted into positions of management (or started their own terrible business, as the case might be) in which they had no business being because the skill requirements for engineering are not automatically transferable to managing people. It’s called the Peter Principle, and there’s some real truth to it.
Haha yeah that’s true but I don’t think it negates what I’m saying. Some people aren’t cut out for management and that’s perfectly fine. However, getting an MBA isn’t going to change you from one type of person to the other. Assuming that the basic characteristics of a manager are present in either case then I absolutely believe that an engineer will make a better high level leader than an MBA.
Sure, an MBA is sort of useless. Management is largely based around personality. And you can’t really teach personality. It’s the same way for a lot of professions, like teaching, actually. In fact, I’d say the management pool should be drawn from people who were accomplished high school teachers. There’s a lot of crossover there in terms of organization, planning, and dealing with a bunch of people who all hate the work you make them do.
I’d rephrase it to be, “People who’ve worked their way up the ranks within the company have the most experience at all levels and understand what it takes to provide a good product. Those people can make good managers.”
Jag-offs that graduate Stanford and just want to extract money are leaches and should be salted immediately.
Again, it comes back to Reagan.
“Deregulation” was a green light for every greedhead to go all out. Small local banks suddenly became giant investment machines.
Look up the adventures of Neil Bush, son and brother to Presidents.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Bush
Sounds great expect that most small business owners do a shit job of running the operations of a business. At best they stumble through it. It’s just not their passion to deal with legalities, OSHA, taxes, payroll, accounts payable, accounts receivable, etc.
The problem with MBAs is that they have little or no practical experience with the business they’re running (seasonality, how to motivate employees, etc). There are some good MBAs out there but there are so many more poor ones. They aren’t looking at the human factor at all. It’s a space that the universities don’t teach for. Everything is KPI related instead. That’s their ultimate downfall.
All of that should be handled by lawyers, accountants, and finance people. The MBA is not generally the one doing any of that directly though. They’re the ones managing the people that do that work and telling them what to prioritize. And therein lies the problem as you correctly pointed out; those are all secondary business functions. They are important parts of any business but are not the fundamental driver of any real business. What the company makes or sells or consults about or whatever else is the actual business and MBAs don’t generally know a thing about that part. Letting them steer all of the corporate ships in America is a huge miscalculation and it’s also a big part of why things are getting more and more fucked up for everybody.
That is an important point. It’s also a pretty good summary of the problem. MBAs ignore everything that made a business successful (people being a huge factor here) and focus on eternally increasing profits, which inevitably leads to making the product as shitty as it can possibly be while still somewhat meeting expectations, and even that last part is becoming less and less important.
Great response expansion!
Same way you need a bachelor’s for an entry level job.