cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/2916897
This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.
The original was posted on /r/science by /u/mvea on 2024-05-15 10:17:06+00:00.
cross-posted from: https://lemmit.online/post/2916897
This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.
The original was posted on /r/science by /u/mvea on 2024-05-15 10:17:06+00:00.
Eh, it isn’t all the time for most people, and it isn’t hard to shut down for most people either.
The key is that it isn’t a separate entity, it’s just your own mind using words to ideate. Like, you can see the sky and just enjoy the blue, or you can think about the blue in words, if you have that inner voice. People without that voice still have a way of processing and thinking, it just isn’t in words, it’s more abstract.
The few people I’ve met that don’t think in words do seem to have difficulty in expressing the experience to others though.
As someone with an inner voice, I can’t even imagine how I’d think about abstract concepts without words. Like, how does “I love freedom” or “I wish all people could be free” happen without words? Maybe this is a learning disability of mine, and explains why interpretive dance doesn’t make any sense to me.
Yeah I can’t imagine functioning without an inner voice. Mines constant. I can’t really make any decisions without internal debate and I have to sorta constantly keep track of things I need to this. after work im going to do x this weekend I need to get y and z done. W needs to get done before the end of the month.
I’m the same. My mind is always churning. I’m getting evaluated for ADHD next week.
which I always found weird about the brain. usually when diagnosed they give you some form of amphetamines to slow your brain down
A new perspective from this article on the topic I haven’t heard before is that what you’re describing may not be the “inner voice” being referred to.
I’m going to assume your native language is English (forgive me, replace with your own native language). When you’re having this internal debate, are your points and counterpoints in actual English language with a sentence structure noun+verb+adjective? This is what I’m reading in the article they say “inner voice” is.
Or instead is it abstract concepts stacked on top and next to each other for comparison?
According to my read of the article, the first would be the “inner voice”, the second would NOT be. I have the second, not the first. How about you?
no its totally words and sentences. I can’t honestly don’t know what my thoughts are outside of that except for visualizing things and like subconsicous things like hunches. Not sure if its related but im one of those people who if I say something its also whats going through my head and actually if im alone enough I just start verbalizing the internal dialogue. Like when I walk the dog I will talk with her. hmmm weather said no rain but those clouds look like they could rain so maybe I should have brought my rain hat but oh well we should finish up soon enough I don’t think we will go far on this one want to be able to get home quick if I need to…
That’s amazing to me! It would be so much extra effort for me to put things in words to think on them first. The only time I do that is when I’m testing how it will sound to someone else. Even then, I’ll build the sentences, and then simulate a person hearing them in concept with what I know of the audience to see how they would receive it, and what concepts they draw from what I say. Then I adjust the words as needed to get the thoughts across to the audience.
The best metaphor I can think to describe it is assembling a jigsaw puzzle. You don’t need to describe the shape of the piece to be able to find a matching piece it fits into. The shape, size, edge, color, and pattern all inform you of where it will fit. That’s kind of a hunch. This conceptual thinking works similarly. There are “attachment points” to each concept that link them together with other mental abstracted concepts. There are places that don’t fit which let you know the pieces are unrelated.
For me it’s not that I can’t think without words, it’s just that the words are very useful tools for organizing my thoughts. I’ve been doing it all my life though so it doesn’t really require more effort than thinking in concepts. It’s like breathing, it happens automatically but I can stop or control it if I want to. When I stop my inner voice I would describe my thoughts as sort of fuzzy and ephemeral. I would easily forget them or have difficulty expressing them without first putting them into words.
I’ve found the opposite. The older I get, the “expensive” words are to use. The concept when in mind is so complex and nuanced, to use a word for it shaves off all that complexity and nuance and collapses the thought into the limits of the definition of that word. When it becomes a word, its…less, a mostly formed shadow of what it was. That’s the price of communicating it to others.
We operate oppositely in this, which is wonderful! For you it sounds like the thoughts don’t have meaning until you choose words and make them concrete. Like your thoughts are liquid and fluid, but you’re able to make them solid and meaningful by confining them in words. For me, I do the best I can with choosing a word, sometimes dusting off old antiques, to try to match as close as possible to the concept. Sometimes I have found words in other languages sometimes fit better because of a closer match of concepts or properties. That too has its drawbacks, as using that would lose your audience when you’re trying to communicate an idea.
If a word does not adequately describe what I’m thinking I just use more words, or I get creative with them and use them in new ways. I guess that’s what makes me prone to getting lost in thought for long periods of time or being very long winded when I’m talking to people. When I’m talking about something I’ve recently been very interested in people often have to cut me off because I’ll essentially start verbalizing my thought process to them and forget they’re there.
yeah to find the matching piece I might visualize it but like I could not look for a piece without talking to myself about sifting through the pieces and how this ones not quite right and such.
I still think of all the things i need to do, it just sorta comes in chunks, not words or auditory.
things like this I can’t even imagine thinking about without words. Maybe there are non word things in them but my internal monologue drowns them out.
I didn’t think this “not using inner voice” thing applied to me, but the way I read the article maybe it does. If the inner voice is truly a voice using grammatical spoken language it sounds crazy limiting.
None of this is in words when I’m thinking about it. I’m putting words here to describe the concepts , thoughts and feelings, of each step but none of it is words when I’m thinking it.
Freedom
All of the above only takes a second or two of actual elapsed time.
Words that come out:
“I love freedom. I wish all people could be free”.
It’s like an instinct. You get the meaning behind the words without the words needing to be there.
Image of someone running in a field, naked
(I don’t know, I’ve got words in my head)
Interpretive dance is about expressing feelings without words. Mimes convey a ton of meaning without words. Both use motion and body language in ways that not everyone is familiar with, kind of like speaking a language. Other things people do physically, like shaking hands, bowing, and hand gestures have regional meanings like verbal language does.
Non-verbal communication can be hard, but then again speaking different verbal languages is a barrier too.
I don’t think cognitive processing without words is necessarily more abstract.
Arguably if you’re processing concepts such as relative geographical location or how to cook a steak, spatial processing is at far less of a remove than converting it all over to words/symbols.