Their Rule 4:

No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, islamophobia, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism. We follow German law; don’t question the statehood of Israel.

Europe@feddit.org removed my comment for de-tangling the conflation of antisemitism and anti-zionism. A dangerous conflation that is genuinely antisemitic and fuels antisemitic hate as it conflates the actions of Israel and Zionism to all Jewish people and Judaism.

This prioritization of the German definition, the adopted IHRA definition, is promoting antisemtitism and is diametrically opposed to the ‘No antisemitism’ aspect of the rule. The definition has been condemned by the writer of the definition, a multitude of human rights organizations including Human Rights Watch (HRW), American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), B’Tselem, Peace Now, and Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR), and over 120 leading scholars of anti-semitism.

Germany Is Trying to Combat Antisemitism. Experts Warn a New Resolution May Do the Opposite

Fifteen Israeli nongovernmental organizations, including the Association for Civil Rights in Israel, B’Tselem and Peace Now, issued an open letter in September stating their concern that the resolution, especially the IHRA definition, could be weaponized to “silence public dissent.”

This could also affect Jewish voices speaking out for Palestinian rights and opposing the occupation, they added. “Paradoxically, the resolution may therefore undermine, not protect, the diversity of Jewish life in Germany,” the letter argued.

Rights groups urge UN not to adopt IHRA anti-Semitism definition

"The IHRA definition has often been used to wrongly label criticism of Israel as antisemitic, and thus chill and sometimes suppress, non-violent protest, activism and speech critical of Israel and/or Zionism, including in the US and Europe,” the letter said.

US-based Human Rights Watch (HRW), American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Israeli rights group B’Tselem, and the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights (PCHR) were among the signatories

The letter is the latest attempt by human rights advocates to urge the UN not to adopt the IHRA definition. In November, more than 120 scholars called on the world body to reject the definition, due to its “divisive and polarising” effect.

128 scholars ask UN not to adopt IHRA definition of anti-Semitism

In a statement published on Thursday, the 128 scholars, who include leading Jewish academics at Israeli, European, United Kingdom and United States universities, said the definition has been “hijacked” to protect the Israeli government from international criticism

Why the man who drafted the IHRA definition condemns its use

The drafter of what later became popularly known as the EUMC or IHRA definition of antisemitism,including its associated examples, was the U.S. attorney Kenneth S. Stern. However, in written evidence submitted to the US Congress last year, Stern charged that his original definition had been used for an entirely different purpose to that for which it had been designed. According to Stern it had originally been designed as a ”working definition” for the purpose of trying to standardise data collection about the incidence of antisemitic hate crime in different countries. It had never been intended that it be used as legal or regulatory device to curb academic or political free speech. Yet that is how it has now come to be used. In the same document Stern specifically condemns as inappropriate the use of the definition for such purposes, mentioning in particular the curbing of free speech in UK universities, and referencing Manchester and Bristol universities as examples. Here is what he writes:

The EUMC “working definition” was recently adopted in the United Kingdom, and applied to campus. An “Israel Apartheid Week” event was cancelled as violating the definition. A Holocaust survivor was required to change the title of a campus talk, and the university [Manchester] mandated it be recorded, after an Israeli diplomat [ambassador Regev] complained that the title violated the definition.[See here]. Perhaps most egregious, an off-campus group citing the definition called on a university to conduct an inquiry of a professor (who received her PhD from Columbia) for antisemitism, based on an article she had written years before. The university [Bristol] then conducted the inquiry. And while it ultimately found no basis to discipline the professor, the exercise itself was chilling and McCarthy-like. [square brackets added – GW]

  • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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    3 days ago

    I suspect the last sentence violates German law. Equating Israel with Nazi Germany is illegal under German law as it is considered to downplay the Holocaust because the latter has killed several magnitudes more people than Israel. From a quick search, this has been confirmed at least once by a higher regional court where a cartoonist was fined one monthly income.

    Advocating for a secular one-state solution has thus far never been considered illegal by any court. The IHRA definition is not German law and will likely never be.

    Since the instance is hosted in Germany, comments must abide by German law even if you disagree with said law. The instance admins are personally liable if they do not remove potentially illegal comments so I don’t see why there is an issue.

    You can create another Europe community on an instance which isn’t hosted in Germany where such comments are legal.

    • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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      3 days ago

      Equating Israel with Nazi Germany is illegal under German law as it is considered to downplay the Holocaust

      Debatable. The comment doesn’t claim that the Shoa and Gaza are comparable. Just that sanctions are justified, just like in <insert horriple example>.

      Also: apparently, it’s hosted in Austria.

      • TanteRegenbogen@feddit.org
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        1 day ago

        It is not debatable. Equating Israelis to Nazis and equating genocide in Gaza to the holocaust are definitely illegal in Germany and Austria. You can criticize Israel all you want and be against the settler policies, just don’t call them nazis.

        In most court cases it also depends on context too.

        • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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          It’s debatable whether or not that comment actually is equating the genocide in Gaza to the Shoa.

          • Zwiebel@feddit.org
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            22 hours ago

            The mods aren’t lawyers tho, so I can understand erring on the side of caution

      • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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        The comment doesn’t claim that the Shoa and Gaza are comparable

        Warsaw Ghetto uprising and Gaza are clearly comparable - Marek Edelman, one of the leaders of Ghetto uprising drawn parallels between the two. I somehow don’t believe Germany would prosecute him.

          • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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            2 days ago

            Maybe? Never did I argue about the morality of these laws. They exist and must be abided to avoid negative consequences.

            Ensuring the existence of the instance has higher priority than free speech about Israel. As such I don’t see any issue on the admin’s side for removing potentially illegal comments.

            Discussion about Israel’s genocide is still possible under German law. Just don’t mention nazis or the Holocaust and you are probably fine.

            • sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
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              2 days ago

              You are gonna talk about this issue how regime tells you to talk about it or you won’t talk about at all

    • Unruffled [they/them]@lemmy.dbzer0.comM
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      3 days ago

      The law is an ass if you can’t even make a comment to clarify the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism. Why even host it in a country that has such restrictions?

      • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat
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        The law is an ass if you can’t even make a comment to clarify the difference between anti-zionism and anti-semitism.

        I would go a step further: The law is an ass if the police are getting themselves involved in any respect in what comments you can and can’t make.

        Whether the viewpoint or argument is or isn’t reasonable, or where they choose to draw the line about what’s a perfectly fair thing to say, just doesn’t factor into it.

        Why even host it in a country that has such restrictions?

        Fully agree. If this is anything other than a stupid excuse, they and everyone else should make sure not to host in Germany (if this didn’t tip you off already.)

      • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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        3 days ago

        You can make this statement, only the last sentence in the comment in question is at the very best in a legal gray area.

        It is perfectly legal to be opposed to zionism, even in Germany. You may need to adjust your wording, since anti-zionism can and has been considered antisemitic if antisemetic rhetoric is repeated. The statement “All zionists are pigs” would be illegal for example since the Judensau is an antisemitic symbol.

        And the servers are hosted where the administrators live (note: they are hosted in Austria, their laws are nearly identical to Germany though). It wouldn’t make much of a difference - German (& Austrian) admins can be prosecuted for any content accessible in Germany (or Austria), regardless of where the content hosted. Besides, it would only take a single court order to identify the admins, see Impressumspflicht.

        • TanteRegenbogen@feddit.org
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          1 day ago

          Impressumspflicht is usually for commercial websites though. If feddit.org doesn’t sell anything or doesn’t demand money, then the imprint isn’t necessary.

        • FelixCress@lemmy.world
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          The statement “All zionists are pigs” would be illegal for example since the Judensau is an antisemitic symbol.

          How did you move from comparison of Israeli policies to these of Nazis to pigs?

          As a comparison this is extremely daft. There are no antisemitic tropes here - being against Israel commiting genocide is a sign of humanity, not antisemitism.

          • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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            2 days ago

            As a comparison this is extremely daft. There are no antisemitic tropes here - being against Israel commiting genocide is a sign of humanity, not antisemitism.

            German politicians and courts disagree, since supporting Israel is withing Germany’s national interest.

            This has nothing to do with moral standing. It is merely the simplest way for the german government to disavow the Shoa while still pursuing it’s economical interest.

              • Prunebutt@slrpnk.net
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                2 days ago

                Yeah, kinda. At least the stated national interest.

                I’m not a fan of it myself, but I’m not a big fan of states in general.

          • yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de
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            2 days ago

            Notice the

            for example

            The commenter didn’t say anything about pigs obviously. I was providing an example where antizionism would be considered antisemitism by German courts.